HT Predator 2 BATTLE DAMAGED!

[MaulFan]

Some of you guys are pretty upset about the fact that HT release a new Predator 2 version with even more extra's for the same price as the first version. I understand. But in fact, I think getting more figure, for the same price, is quite customer friendly. Just look at Sideshow. As all their latest 12" releases clearly illustrate, they charge you more each time, WITHOUT any significant improvement at all! No extra items, no improved body, no better quality,... just a higher price and a lot of excuses like the higher oil price, etc.. THAT's customer unfriendly, IMO.

That's not a very reasonable argument. Better quality is a matter of perspective when it comes to SSC price changes, but you can't compare them to this matter as Sideshow has only sold unique new figures where Hot Toys is selling alternates and upgrades.

The big issue is that Hot Toys shows a strong tendency to make variants have more value to them as an item, not monetary, than the original. Brown AVP warrior came with a face hugger, people love those so I'm sure plenty of people were bothered that a figure came after they spent money, was just as cool and had extras they wanted. I love Hot Toys products, but they do seem to show signs at times that they have no concern for their customer base. The customer friendly route to the P2 Predator would have been to have both figures 100% identical except for the blood paint apps and the alternate left arm.

 

[Jamal]

What Mudshark said is my feeling on the issue 100%, the variant issues hurt the people who collect multiple lines more then the people who collect this genre/character type figure. Judging by how much this figure has taken off i can probably bet my balls that HT are gonna milk the future releases also, ill be one of the people who buys those variants also depending on the concept and the look mainly because this is all i collect and i can live with having more Predators

 

[MaulFan]

I had the impression that HT had decided to include Ripley because of feedback they got from people, but you're saying that they simply didn't make it clear to their suppliers that she was included? I remember Alter Ego saying something to the effect that HT had changed their mind, but they could have been just covering their own butts.

Someone reported or had for sale the Power Loader with a Ripley listed as included I believe, and that got people talking saying what's going on and I don't get it and such, and about a week or so later, Sideshow and the others reported that HT informed them it would indeed include a Ripley figure. Whatever the reason Ripley was not initially reported, the situation shows that Hot Toys just does their own thing and don't necessarily regard how it impacts their distributors.

When Hot Toys arranged to give Sideshow an exclusive version, they may have planned the figure at that time to have no bio mask and the damaged bio mask was an extra item, and then for some reason along the way, decided they'd put in the regular mask with the non-SSC figures and not updated Sideshow on what would be in the box, and Sideshow shouldn't have to stay on top of them to find out if the product keeps changing, as a responsible company, it is Hot Toys duty to keep people informed of changes they make when it impacts others.

I just think Hot Toys needs to get involved in a forum community like this one, maybe there is such a place, I don't know of one, but I think they're out of touch with the mindsets of their foreign customers, at least I hope they're out of touch because if not then it means they just don't care. Most people when they go for exclusives in the market in the U.S., there's a common understanding that it tends to be the regular and then some, not just like with Sideshow, others do exclusive versions of things, so if for some reason the BD Pred wasn't the regular plus, that'd be a failure to satisfy customers on HT's part.

 

[MaulFan]

What Mudshark said is my feeling on the issue 100%, the variant issues hurt the people who collect multiple lines more then the people who collect this genre/character type figure. Judging by how much this figure has taken off i can probably bet my balls that HT are gonna milk the future releases also, ill be one of the people who buys those variants also depending on the concept and the look mainly because this is all i collect and i can live with having more Predators

I can already imagine a BD P1 and having it include one of the human skulls or Billy's skull and spinal column, really easy for them as they could recycle the piece off of the P2 and paint it a little different or even the same.

 

[Jamal]

If that happens my shelf can expect P1 +1 :chew

 

[MaulFan]

Well my POV with the Predator 1 is that it is THE Predator, and where I don't care for the P2 enough to own both figures of it, with the P1, I can see myself getting the initial release and subsequent variants and I'm sure many a collector feel that way, so HT may even exploit the P1 more than any other Predator because it could sell. There's already a progression from AVP to P2 of doing more with more popular Predators. People like AVP Preds, they did what they could with those. People liked the P2 Predators more than AVP, they're doing what they can there, and may not be done, they could release more of the crew. I'd guess the majority of Predator fans like the first one's look and design best of all, so HT will want to capitalize on that as much as they can. If they really do Dutch and company, but never do say a Harrigan figure, I think that'll show recognition for the popularity of P1. I wouldn't be shocked to get Dutch variants, they'll do a full camo V1, then an unpainted face, muscle body V2, that is of course if they bite and buy Arnie's likeness rights, otherwise I'm sure they'll only do camo version so they can hide the face and people will have to pay Les or someone to repaint the head to show the sculpt, if the sculpt looks like Arnold just painted to not look like him.

 

[Reinhardt]

i just hope they don't "reveal" a new verison of a predator figure, AFTER the first version is completely sold out - only to include everything the first version had, and more.

ie. predator 2 battle damaged

 

[Bardoon]

Well I can understand Hot Toys' business in adding the "extra incentives" because it's smart marketing and adds that extra little push for people on the fence about purchasing.

Lets say all this Battle Damage P2 figure was coming with was the roaring mandibles, the burnt arm, the painted blood and all the original accessories most people who have the original P2 figure would probably pass and I believe this was the case with the AniCon Scar Predator right? Please correct me if I'm wrong but all I believe it came with was a roaring mandibles head mold right? I remember taking a look at it, seeing it on eBay and ignoring it cause I already was happy with my Scar and that just "wasn't enough" to justify buying another one. And considering that these figures are $130-$150 a pop...that's a lot of money!!! It's not like Marvel Legends Variants that if you'd be lucky to find on the store shelves you can buy for $9.99...it's a lot of money for us!

So Hot Toys knows this, they know they have to increase the quantities and they have to sweeten the pot especially for those that already own the original and it's smart business I say! And heck, I'm falling for it!

Take a few examples here:

-Predator 2 Battle-Damage: Additional accessories (Respirator, Clean/Broken Mask, Medi-Kit, Trophy Alien Skull, Burnt/Regular Hands) + Interchangeable Head Mold

-Superman/Clark Kent 2-in-1: New Superman and Clark Head Mold, New Clark suit outfit, new improvements as well (softer material for Supes boots). Also HT is banking on their limited quantities of the original run plus getting people who had/have the first one to "re-buy" by having a brand new and superior head sculpt

-Robo-Cop 3: New paint job, Jet-Pack, Interchangeable Machine Gun/Rocket Launcher arm. I believe I remember hearing about some other improvements over the first release too.

-AVP Ancient Predator Elders: Two New Predator Masks,slight changes in armor by taking pieces away,Alien head on a Spear, Elder Predator's feet, Forearm blades. Also HT is running off the success of the AVP Predators and at the time these guys came out the original AVP Predators were getting somewhat rare and hard-to-find

-Powerloader: Added a Ripley figure, unknown if this was intended from the beginning or not.

-Brown/Grid AVP Aliens: New paint jobs and Facehugger....it's not much but it's something!


But you get an idea of what I'm saying.

 

[MaulFan]

You certainly make great and valid points Bardoon.

But on the other side of the coin, the issue comes of are these variants really necessary.

For example, how many people are mainly interested in the BD Pred 2 because of the extras and not persay that it's painted battle damaged. If a lone P2 Pred came out, no blood paint on the body and face, but had the severed arm and all the BD accessories, would that be enough for most people, I think they could look past the body blood, especially when most are already saying they don't think it's done as well as it could be.

So the problem then becomes not the choice of adding extras to help sell the variants, but the practice of making variants instead of producing a more encompassing original.

 

[Mudshark]

If they keep the P1 to no more than two versions, I will definitely get them both, too. There's talk of Dutch and maybe some of his squad, and I'm initially very interested in them as well, but if they release them all at once, it might be a different story. When the Aliens Colonial Marines were released at the start of the Movie Masterpiece line, there was just Apone and Hicks. Vasquez arrived a little later. The next wave was three figures.

The new Video Games Masterpiece line is due to be released soon, and there are like six figures in all that may or may not be released at the same time! This has me a little worried about future releases, like with Dutch's men from Predator. If they release like all of 'em at the same time, it's going to be very hard to collect them all. If they do make any of those figures, I really hope they release them a couple at a time, 'cause more than three is just too hard on the ol' wallet!

We might see a variant of Dutch, but I doubt they'd go to the trouble of doing more than one version of his team members... who'd buy 'em?

 

[Bardoon]

You certainly make great and valid points Bardoon.

But on the other side of the coin, the issue comes of are these variants really necessary.

For example, how many people are mainly interested in the BD Pred 2 because of the extras and not persay that it's painted battle damaged. If a lone P2 Pred came out, no blood paint on the body and face, but had the severed arm and all the BD accessories, would that be enough for most people, I think they could look past the body blood, especially when most are already saying they don't think it's done as well as it could be.

So the problem then becomes not the choice of adding extras to help sell the variants, but the practice of making variants instead of producing a more encompassing original.

Good call there...I'll say that I am mostly interested in the Battle Damage P2 because of the additional accessories and not so much his lopped-off arm.

But also a lot of these companies will make variants, "chase exclusives", etc. not only to appease the collectors but also on the business-sense to actually help compensate the cost of the license itself. Hasbro has the STAR WARS license that must cost them a gazillion dollars so hence they produce every different color variation of the Stormtrooper or Clonetrooper not only to appease fans that they know WILL buy the product, but also so they can make more of a profit as well and often they reuse parts and accessories and the only thing that changes is the paint scheme.

Hot Toys knows that at their price point, it's going to take more than a repaint to get people to buy. Maybe something in the past didn't meet their expectation in sales...I hear the Grid Alien is still availible at some online stores.

Another example, let's say that the Predator 2 was the ONLY Predator in the whole movie that showed up (ignore the Elder and the rest that showed up at the end) and basically there was ZERO interest from the fan base for characters like Harrigan and whateverGaryBusey'scharacter'snamewas...then Hot Toys is banking on just the Predator 2 character itself to make all its desired profit expectations and hence that's why they may end up making variants.

PREDATOR (1) may very well be that way if it wasn't for the fact that there is interest in Dutch and his soldiers. But who knows if Hot Toys will make those guys?

 

[ragacin]

Since these boys are shipping now, I find it odd that I am not seeing them parted out at the usual HK eBay guys...
I had to cancel my Sideshow order today for the Excl because the Elder P2 and BD Excl were going to hit my card at once and it couldn't handle it . I'd rather have the P2 Elder anyway since I alsready have the P2, just want the Alien Head and med pack.
As far as the variant discussion, while I understand what HT is doing, I just don't care for it money wise for me. Fortunately, with the POTC line, I saw the V2 Jack with the perfect Depp head piece add on, so I ordered that one before I bought the V1.

 

[MaulFan]

You know it's funny Bardoon, you actually touch upon something I observe a lot with HT, and it's a double-edge sword for them.

Hot Toys takes chances, be it licenses or character selections. This is great for customers on one hand because it gives a chance to get things you wouldn't normally expect. The other hand is, customers often pay suffering through variants and such because when the gambling is over, HT doesn't make out as well as hoped and have to find a way to achieve some balance.

All in all, I think my preference would be to suffer through variants for the chance at pieces you might never thing anyone would bother to make.

 

[Reinhardt]

if they are going to release these variants with different accessories, they should atleast offer the accessories separately AS WELL as with the figure. that way for those that missed out on V1, they can get the new version, and for those that picked up V1, they can get the accessory pack and not have to pay for another entire figure.

it's such a rapeage of the consumer right now it's not even funny.

 

[MaulFan]

Well it's an ugly matter, but I think Bardoon's really hit on something.

After Bardoon's post, I'm really thinking a lot of the variant business isn't about adding to the product line, but to help improve profit or something like that. The trouble is, once you come to the conclusion you need to sell more to balance yourself out, how do you boost sales, so adding more items ups your chances. Hot Toys also likes to do extra production runs, and since they don't publish edition sizes, they can get away with it. Rocky Balboa seemed to be all but sold out and they ran a second production run because there was demand. If there weren't demand, I'd bet we'd see eventual variant of Rocky. That's probably why they did Street Clubber Lang.

Like I've said, the good news bad news of HT is their selection of properties that don't necessarily have enough power to thrive without having to make up for less than stellar performance by rereleasing products with a few twists and turns.

 

[icruise]

Hot Toys (and many other companies) are using the same business model that most electronics companies use -- release a new product with just enough improved to get people to buy the new model. It wouldn't be in their best interest to offer the accessories separately, since the point of adding the accessories in the first place is to get the hardcore collectors to buy the new figure.

 

[Bardoon]

Hey I even give credit to Sideshow for getting licenses that people would normally not expect! But come to think of it, what is Sideshow's plan behind their "Exclusive Variants"? Are they trying to guarantee sales of an item by making it a "Hot Exclusive Item" with "Limited Quantities"?

I think Hot Toys has learned now that their variants are going to have to offer quite a bit to sweeten the load...especially for their price point and considering that the Alien/Predator licenses are VERY popular. I'm sure they'll just focus the variants on the most well-known characters.

I do not mind the variants, I actually really like the BD Pred 2 but that's mostly because of the added accessories like I mentioned before but I'm also buying it because I like the character himself. And if there's something I don't want...I just don't buy it...I didn't care for the Grid Alien so I didn't get him, that's not without saying if someone offered him to me for free I'd certainly take him!

But if you want to talk about Variants going bad. Have you ever heard of SOTA and their Street Fighter line, MaulFan? They went ape-wild with variants for the first few Rounds (Waves) of their figures and it actually ended up biting them in the rear-end because a lot would not sell on top of numerous company problems that they were having. But that's a whole other story.

 

[Jamal]

Well it's an ugly matter, but I think Bardoon's really hit on something.

After Bardoon's post, I'm really thinking a lot of the variant business isn't about adding to the product line, but to help improve profit or something like that. The trouble is, once you come to the conclusion you need to sell more to balance yourself out, how do you boost sales, so adding more items ups your chances. Hot Toys also likes to do extra production runs, and since they don't publish edition sizes, they can get away with it. Rocky Balboa seemed to be all but sold out and they ran a second production run because there was demand. If there weren't demand, I'd bet we'd see eventual variant of Rocky. That's probably why they did Street Clubber Lang.

Like I've said, the good news bad news of HT is their selection of properties that don't necessarily have enough power to thrive without having to make up for less than stellar performance by rereleasing products with a few twists and turns.

Of course it is bro, all they do is recycle 90% of the previous figure thats MAXIMUM PROFIT right there bro

 

[screamingmetal]

Actually screamingmetal...the Hot Toys specs DO mention that device. But you might not know what it's actually called like I did until I got the AvP:R design book.

The nuclear backpack is in-fact referred to as the "Cleaner Kit" or "Cleaner Case" (in the AvP:R book) and the Cleaner Kit is certainly on the list of HT's specs!!!

I checked Hot Toy's site and it does say Cleaner Kit, but that's not pictured nor does Sideshow list that, they refer to a Medical Kit but not a Cleaner Kit.
With Hot Toys poor communication, we will have to wait and see if he does come with that pod backpack. (wasn't this supposed to come out today?)
anymore on this I think belongs in the Wolf Pred thread.

 

[screamingmetal]

As for the variant issue, what's pissing me off is that this is not just the Battle Damaged variant but the ultimate Predator 2 version.
Had the first release also came with the roaring tusks and working med kit; or if the Battle damaged version not come with the regular mask, non roaring face pieces, spear, skull/spine trophy, or the regular non severed left arm, I might be more at ease with it.
About the Ani Com Scar varient, itwas a convention special release, came with a second roaring head and blood deco but most importantly, was more expensive then the first version. I own the first release and don't feel like I missed out at all.

For me the way it is with the Pred 2 battle damaged variant, I feel used. I can't afford more then one version of this guy so I have to live with the first version or hope to get the med kit and alternative head with roaring pieces on eBay, and I'm not looking forward to paying an additional $50 for a complete Pred 2 when I could've just skipped the first version and spent the same for the ultimate version (Battle Damaged).