I Hate Corporate America! >:(

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I don't know how old you are Nitro, but you have got the best birthday of any day of the year. :joy

Thanks RoboDad! I'd say you have got the best birth date of any day of the year (in any century) too! :chew

BTW (I'm 32)
 
The dead-end loans caused the economic crisis. Those poor shlubs to got in over their head would not have done so if not for greedy, short-sighted investors, because no reasonable person with any intention of obtaining a return on those loans would have given those people money to begin with.
That is utter hogwash, and thinking like that is the real root cause of the economic problems this country (and the world at large) is facing. Those "poor shlubs" knew exactly what they were doing, and they are responsible for their own actions. For example, five years ago, I was in the process of selling my home, but had not yet had any serious offers. I had, however, found the house I wanted to buy. The lender offered me a bridge loan to cover the down payment on the new house that gave me six months to sell the old one. I knew the risk, but was willing to take it, and the responsibility for signing my name on that paper was mine, and mine alone. No one at the lender held a gun to my head.
You do know that Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac were corporations, right?
You do know that Fannie and Freddie were both founded by acts of Congress, do you not? So guess who has really pulled the strings at both organizations (even before the wholesale takeover back in '08)?
 
I hate being over worked and under paid while getting treated like s_it. Meantime.... the higher ups don't do crap and are treated like royalty!

Oh and Corporate Australia sux too!!! Leave Creecher alone! :mad:

Yup.....and you're their bread and butter, go figure!

Yeah....leave Creecher alone, Australia!!!! :mad:
 
Lots of folks won't ship things to Italy, because their mail system sucks. If you like buying from eBay, choose another country. Belgium is nice.

Very true. Belgium seems nice but I love Sweden though. It's probably my 2nd choice.
 
That is utter hogwash, and thinking like that is the real root cause of the economic problems this country (and the world at large) is facing. Those "poor shlubs" knew exactly what they were doing, and they are responsible for their own actions. For example, five years ago, I was in the process of selling my home, but had not yet had any serious offers. I had, however, found the house I wanted to buy. The lender offered me a bridge loan to cover the down payment on the new house that gave me six months to sell the old one. I knew the risk, but was willing to take it, and the responsibility for signing my name on that paper was mine, and mine alone. No one at the lender held a gun to my head.

You do know that Fannie and Freddie were both founded by acts of Congress, do you not? So guess who has really pulled the strings at both organizations (even before the wholesale takeover back in '08)?

The U.S. government is as much to blame as anybody. Yeah, both of those companies were set up by the government to spur economic investment, but in a de facto sense behaved as if they developed as any private company did, particularly in recent years. Not that it matters. The government also backed a large chunk of those banks who never had to face the music. Legislation in Congress is written by lobbyists more often than not. The government and big business cannot be disentangled.

I'm not defending people who get in over their heads by any means. People can and are taken advantage of every day because they are largely ignorant, naive, and overly optimistic. But if your company is key to the infrastructure of the U.S. economy, and your failure results in the failure of the U.S. economy, then you should have more than a minor responsibility in preventing your own failure. Failure which could have been avoided if people with bad credit, no credit, and/or no chance for paying off loans weren't given high interest loans.

The people who got in over their heads deserve the negative ramifications. But that doesn't take away the fact that many got loans they never should have been allowed in the first place.
 
Failure is heaped on all parties (Govt down the line) who purchased bigger than their wallets allowed, of course this is liable to include most of us who buy relatively expensive collectibles. :banana :lol :monkey4

What the hell, let's just print more money. :chew
 
karamazov80,

I agree absolutely, on all counts. The banks bear a huge amount of responsibility for what has happened. I just mistook your previous comments to mean that consumers (and to a degree the federal government) were innocent.
 
Hey now, let's not have any crazy talk here!

So sorry. :monkey3 :naughty :lol

I have seen this first-hand though, coming from So CA originally, it wasn't rare to find buyers who would "buy" their homes as dirt plots and by the time the home was finished flip it for as much as three times the value; not even the capital gains would deter that kind of profit. Of course, the housing market was artificial as we all now know; but the fault was both with the lender and the greedy (yes, that's really what it is) "buyer."
 
As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

* The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.

* Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.

* Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.

* Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.

* The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

* Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.

* Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.

* Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.

* The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.

* An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.

* Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.

–by Joe Miller and Brooks Jackson

from factcheck.org
 
To Robodad, in my opinion, it all comes down to human nature. It was the perfect storm when the stupid, short-sighted potential homeowners and stupid, short-sighted investors got together and destroyed our economy :lol

If only we had the rational, infallible perspective of the robot. . .

What the hell, let's just print more money. :chew
Hey, that's sometimes an option that states take. Leads to inflation, which is usually a bad idea, but sometimes better than the alternative when economies are in really bad shape in terms of debt obligations.
 
from factcheck.org

That's a very comprehensive list, although I have to scratch my head over the inclusion of realtors. Having them work for the buyer instead of the seller would not change their incentive to make bigger deals, but conversely, making their commission a flat rate would likely lead to many, many realtors opting to change careers, leaving most home buyers and sellers completely lost in the muddle of forms and processes required to comply with real estate transaction laws.
 
To Robodad, in my opinion, it all comes down to human nature. It was the perfect storm when the stupid, short-sighted potential homeowners and stupid, short-sighted investors got together and destroyed our economy :lol
And when you add stupid, short-sighted politicians who turn a blind eye to the whole mess when they could at least try to right the ship, and it is a catastrophe of epic proportions. But sometimes, all you can do is :lol

If only we had the rational, infallible perspective of the robot. . .
I'm workin' on it, I'm workin' on it! ;)
 
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