[iminime] / Trevor Grove - The Cowboy ~ FULL REVEAL ~

[PopCultKid]

I was upset to read "shocked" : in Korea, shocked word means...something very very disrespect to artist and people.
or if you see something terrible...we say shocked..
I admit that this can be misunderstanding.

And the color of rifle, I was aware of it, but we could not do exactly to the prototyped color, we realized that maybe very limited works could be done in that way....my painters felt too hard to do that painting for multiply, and I had to accept the team's opinion, our staff know, we spent more than we got total for this WTD projects. because I Love this TV series!! although we lost some, we tried to upgrade it with many parts.

But seems...like...even I met you and know each other....and I didn't know that you expressed that way..was hurting me.
I always say...free to speak...and I am fine for that.

Picking up only few things that you hate....compared to prototype...is hurting.

See what things has been improved from prototype?
Many Materials have been changed.
Shirt was remade with suggestions, weathering add with suggestions..etc on....


Denny

Ahhhhhh... I see . I think we just have a little cultural misunderstanding going on. Please don't misunderstand the word "shocked". It's not as strong or as intense of a word as you are taking it. I really said it quite loosely and didn't mean to strike a nerve Denny

I had a great time with you at Famcon too! It was a pleasure meeting you and getting to know you and I feel like we're buds because of that trip!!! I was hoping to see you there next year and I told Rainman he should come too (he said that he wanted to last year but couldn't make it).

I think that that we're really having some cultural differences because anything I'm saying to you tonight is no different than the way I'd speak to one of my best friends that I've known for half of my life. I'm sorry if I'm pointing out a couple of things that I think that you could have done better but I'm just sharing my honest opinion. I understand now that you said the production paint couldn't be the same as the proto paint. This is the same situation for even big companies like Hot Toys and Sideshow so it's easy for us to understand now that you say that.

And I absolutely see all the upgrades and improvements that you've made to the set. Sorry if it seems like I'm just picking at the some parts and not giving credit to others. I absolutely feel that the set on a whole is a huge improvement from the first set of photos that you showed us. Your hard work and commitment on this is very evident and I'm super pumpped to get this. Please don't misunderstand me!!!

We know your job is very hard and stressful. Understand that you are very appreciated and respected here!!! So many of us love what Iminime does and we value your presence in the community! No one wants you to go silent or to change the way you're doing things. Everyone really enjoys you being interactive and we love that you're more vocal now. Don't change that now!!

I told you that I'm picking up dinner next time but looks like I got you mad tonight so I'll have to get you on drinks too

Don't misunderstand me brother, I have nothing but love for ya

 

[axecutioner18]

I love the boards, but what this whole thing has achieved is just put more fuel for the bad rep this board gets elsewhere... sad. Very very sad.

 

[PopCultKid]

Oh God. Looks to me like a misunderstanding. Maybe you shouldn't add fuel to the fire

 

[Commtech]

Man.... I just read the last few pages. So unfortunate. I think it's all a big misunderstanding.

Denny: Don't change anything, man. Keep it the same way and keep up the great work you've been doing.

 

[axecutioner18]

Oh God. Looks to me like a misunderstanding. Maybe you shouldn't add fuel to the fire

Just making an observation... dont think my post can do more 'damage' than that which has been already caused. And dont put the whole misunderstanding blame on yourself. You can obviously see Denny is not disappointed by petty words. Its a culmination of a lot of things that this thread has unfortunately veered towards.

Misunderstanding or just someone snapping at the constant burden of expectations or just a lovers tiff or a conspiracy by the Taliban is irrelevant.

My point is our board has a nasty rep outside, and when things like these happen (not matter what the reasons) it gets publicised and highlighted and in the end does a lot of damage to the reputation of the board and makes potential artists/members and companies think twice before presenting their work.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Damn.

....

 

[armysoldier74b]

Just making an observation... dont think my post can do more 'damage' than that which has been already caused. And dont put the whole misunderstanding blame on yourself. You can obviously see Denny is not disappointed by petty words. Its a culmination of a lot of things that this thread has unfortunately veered towards.

Misunderstanding or just someone snapping at the constant burden of expectations or just a lovers tiff or a conspiracy by the Taliban is irrelevant.

My point is our board has a nasty rep outside, and when things like these happen (not matter what the reasons) it gets publicised and highlighted and in the end does a lot of damage to the reputation of the board and makes potential artists/members and companies think twice before presenting their work.

Axe we have all been guilty of contributing to the bad reputation of this board. That includes You and I

A lot of good constructive criticism in here and Artists should be able to take the good with the bad. It will only help them improve their product.
I've seen members in here blatantly disrespect the artist and I've seen the artist completely ignore the demands of the customer.

I don't see artists moving away from these boards. A lot of passionate collectors in here (Ready to spend) Some are more passionate than others, but if the artist can get past all the BS than there is a nice payday at the end of the tunnel.

[ame]https://youtu.be/neO5fnwQjqg[/ame]

 

[axecutioner18]

Im not saying they will leave or something permanently or otherwise. Yes end of the day they are running a business and this place is great business, but what this does is discourage potential new artists and sometimes like say in the case of Trevor, totally makes them go offline...

There are a LOT of artists in different parts of the world who could definately contribute more here, but they hear a lot of negativity about this board. Plus the impression existing artists will translate to the upcoming ones... its a shame because honestly I think there has been a LOT of good things that has happened in the collecting world because of this very board.

 

[Wake]

I've purposely stayed out of this mess for the last couple of pages because a) I'm in business with Denny and ultimately it behooves me to let Him air out his feelings in the hopes that things can stabilize and b) I don't want to be seen as a cheerleader. But the fact is I've made a significant investment one that includes a lot more than just my time (which not incidentally has been a serious time commitment) and it pains me to see this happening. And I do have a horse in this race but its more that what you think. I love what Iminime brings to this hobby and I don't want to see it end.

The truth is Denny doesn't need ssf. He doesn't. Since I've been more closely involved with the business end of things I've come to realize that ssf is minuscule percentage if his business yet a maximum contributor to his head aches. For All the constant complaining and *****ing and demands for changes "before people will buy"... You want to know what all the effort in going back and redoing Tyler's sculpt, heeding the neckless sculpt demand, and retailoring the costume has resulted in? 2 fullsets and 1 headsculpt sale from ssf. You think it's worth putting himself through the aggravation, not too mention worth the financial commitment of making these changes and delaying a final delivery for $1000?! Lol. That's what some artists on this thread charge for one figure.

 

[john hbk]

im pretty new to the ssf forums but I really cant get over how negative some people are about projects. we are all on here because we have a passion for collecting this stuff so as the great eminems mother said" IF YOU AINT GOT NOTHIN NICE TO SAY THEN DONT SAY NOTHIN" and that includes "constructive criticism" as they like to call it because it starts off that way every time ans always seems to turn nasty. Denny and IMINIME are amazing and produce figure no one else does at a great price! don't knock them.

 

[youbastards]

Work-in-progress Cowboy pix, please!

 

[Raymond F.]

I do think that the changes Denny made to Tyler will pay off in the end.

For example I for one will likely get the full set and the Ed norton too. And I have the Rainman ones. I just think the end result is that good. I have not yet because its a lot if stuff...

Ill likely get Spock also and that says a lot as I'm not a big fan of the new Star Trek, but again, it's that good.

There are projects that pop that need to be bought immediately and some that can wait. You don't bounce back from dropping 1500 on a Rainman right away. I for one need a chance to catch my breath, if I got a sense Spock and Fight Club might dry up I'd drop the coin now instead of later.

A few years ago I did a custom project with Kato for Tyler durden shirts. I was in the hole for a grand for that project bit eventually they all sold. I only made 600 bucks but that's because I under priced them, the point is that fight club is popular. That's why there will always be buyers.

That being said i can ultra sympathize with Denny saying that all the effort and the money out into the project yielding little sales is hard to justify. But ts an investment and it will pay off in the end,

I am one customer who did not want fight club or spock, I dismt even ask for the changes because I did not want them. But now? They look too good to pass up and I will be buying them. Make no mistake the efforts are worth it in the end.

 

[Wake]

I do think that the changes Denny made to Tyler will pay off in the end.

For example I for one will likely get the full set and the Ed norton too. And I have the Rainman ones. I just think the end result is that good. I have not yet because its a lot if stuff...

Ill likely get Spock also and that says a lot as I'm not a big fan of the new Star Trek, but again, it's that good.

There are projects that pop that need to be bought immediately and some that can wait. You don't bounce back from dropping 1500 on a Rainman right away. I for one need a chance to catch my breath, if I got a sense Spock and Fight Club might dry up I'd drop the coin now instead of later.

A few years ago I did a custom project with Kato for Tyler durden shirts. I was in the hole for a grand for that project bit eventually they all sold. I only made 600 bucks but that's because I under priced them, the point is that fight club is popular. That's why there will always be buyers.

That being said i can ultra sympathize with Denny saying that all the effort and the money out into the project yielding little sales is hard to justify. But ts an investment and it will pay off in the end,

I am one customer who did not want fight club or spock, I dismt even ask for the changes because I did not want them. But now? They look too good to pass up and I will be buying them. Make no mistake the efforts are worth it in the end.

I hope so ray. If only to satisfy the selfish part of me that suggested to Denny it was a good idea to make these changes. Because although some think I'm biased and partial what I am is a collector and an ally. Like I mentioned before my involvement has produced improvements no one even realized they wanted. Some times small thinhs (Tyler's ringed hands and beer bottle for instance) and sometimes larger ones (like convincing him of entire figures)

 

[denrep-lilium]

I hope so ray. If only to satisfy the selfish part of me that suggested to Denny it was a good idea to make these changes. Because although some think I'm biased and partial what I am is a collector and an ally. Like I mentioned before my involvement has produced improvements no one even realized they wanted. Some times small thinhs (Tyler's ringed hands and beer bottle for instance) and sometimes larger ones (like convincing him of entire figures)

Thanks for being constructively involved.
I think now you will be a voice of Denny at SSF, at least for a while. It's a pity he decided to leave.

 

[annihilate22]

My two cents, and no I don't own a single iminime figure.

The 30 day thing was created back, really before we saw the onslaught of custom sales that we see nowadays. So it was from a different time. But the purpose was so that people would really be protected via Paypal. When you go over 45 days, that goes away. Other artists also take a long time (some 9 months to a year or so), and I don't think it's any better when it happens from someone else.


Well, the forum is supposed to, in some ways, protect members from themselves. That's why the 30 day rule is in the FAQ. That's why Dave strongly discourages payment as gift. That's why you need X number of posts and months of membership before being allowed to sell. It seems that the direction Dave is moving is that you will need some kind of good reputation to solicit custom sales, and that wouldn't really address the time between payment and delivery issue I'm bringing up. It's helpful. But I still think it's ultimately uncool for all the customers to take on all the risk. Again, you can explain it. Axecutioner has done so very eloquently in the past. The explanation makes sense. But that doesn't necessarily make it OK.

As for how artists can get around the 30 days issue? Let them take on the risk of producing a product, then offering it for sale, and potentially taking a hit if it doesn't sell. That means they have to pay for it up front, and may not end up selling it. But in most other industries that's how it works. Companies take on those risks. Customers really don't. With custom artists now, customers essentially invest in these companies by helping them to develop product. . .but they don't get any interest or stock. They just get a product they pay for down the road. Another option is the Rainman-type approach--he essentially does one project at a time, and takes payment when products are about to be produced. He may not get them out in 30 days, but I don't think they ever go over two months. Does that work when you're trying to fund a whole team? Maybe not. But there are ways that this can be done or where something close to it can be done.

The 30 day rule is applicable for sales made exclusively for people through this board right ?

The truth is Denny doesn't need ssf. He doesn't. Since I've been more closely involved with the business end of things I've come to realize that ssf is minuscule percentage if his business yet a maximum contributor to his head aches.

Guess that the rule doesn't apply to Kim and team. All the do here is generate interest and round up people but sales are open to anybody and everybody. Loophole ? Yes. Are they guilty ? Absolutely not. We made the rules and from what I see they're playing by it.

We should be obliged that he comes here first for an opinion and accepts feedback gracefully.

My comment isn't directed towards anyone but we often get allured to the (pseudo) fact that it is only SSF that these Custom Artists feed off. Well, we are a base and in some cases a huge base (Ref. Taxi Driver). But are we the entire lot ? Sadly, the answer is no.

However, if I look at the bigger picture I get the essence of what you're saying and it does make sense. But at the same time Denny has an equally valid justification. He has delivered time and again and on a scale much much bigger than what a handful of custom artists here have put together combined. I think the benefit of doubt has a higher leverage towards him and his team.

 

[karamazov80]

The 30 day rules is applicable for sales made exclusively for people through this board right ?

Not that anyone adheres to this rule, but no. It's actually very cut and dry for anything in the customs section:

It is against the rules of the forum for any money to change hands if delivery is expected to take longer than 30 days.

The truth is Denny doesn't need ssf. He doesn't.

That's good to hear. He does great work, as do lots of other custom artists who follow a similar model, and I hope they all continue to flourish. But I can foresee a time when the current processes just won't fly here anymore.

 

[annihilate22]

It is against the rules of the forum for any money to change hands if delivery is expected to take longer than 30 days.

Accepted.

But unless I am missing something, this is not a transaction through the forum - It is a transaction off the forum.

It is just an informational thread on the forum and somewhat of a feedback seeking thread. Again, it does not feed off this forum.

 

[Wake]

Accepted.

But unless I am missing something, this is not a transaction through the forum - It is a transaction off the forum.

It is just an informational thread on the forum and somewhat of a feedback seeking thread. Again, it does not feed off this forum.

This is how I see it. Not much different then enterbay really.

In fact you could make the argument that cinemascale adds an additional separation

 

[annihilate22]

This is how I see it. Not much different then enterbay really.

In fact you could make the argument that cinemascale adds an additional separation

Exactly.

Here's a further distinction. Ra's al Ghul was a forum specific figure. There was an interest list made. There was a payment date set. PMs were exchanged and payments were requested for. Slots were alloted for SSF and this figure was a 'Forum Exclusive'. So did they break the rule back then ? Yes.

But, things have changed since. All iminime does is garner interest through a thread and when it reaches a certain threshold the list has no importance anymore. It just serves as a medium to confirm that a product will be well received by potential customers - Much like a market survey but a non-conventional one.

From thereon, everything that happens is through the iminime / CS website. No paypal address is pasted here and no one is PMd to pay up and no one is held accountable for showing interest and not sticking to their word.

People sign up as members on these websites, get periodic newsletters with updates (Progress, shipping timelines etc.) They then make individual decisions whether or not they should take the leap or hold back till the product is shipping and then go for it.

The forum plays no part in that, thus leading (everybody) to only one conclusion,

'No rules are Broken'.

Rendering this argument

It is against the rules of the forum for any money to change hands if delivery is expected to take longer than 30 days.

Invalid!

The rule doesn't apply to Kim and team. All the do here is generate interest and round up people but sales are open to anybody and everybody.

Loophole ? Yes.

Are they guilty ? Absolutely not.

We made the rules and from what I see they're playing by it.

It really doesn't get any clearer than this.

 

[karamazov80]

But doesn't Enterbay only solicit products once they are ready to ship, or are just about to ship? Even if they don't, it's much more of a gray area with stuff like this, because Enterbay, or even some retailers like KG Hobby may take money upfront, but they aren't active members here trying to receive input and solicit products themselves or through a proxy such as Wake. The board does allow links and discussion of places that take full payment upfront, and seems to have always allowed that. But I see Iminime as essentially a larger scale version of an individual selling his own customs. He's got a website of his own (now two), and doesn't operate exclusively within the board, but there are more similarities to the kinds of custom artists Dave had in mind when he made that rule than there are differences IMO. And even back when that rule was put in place, many of these guys also had eBay stores, their own websites, and sold through OSW or other places. So I don't think SSF exclusivity was ever a necessary condition.

Of course, at any time Dave could come in here and contradict what I'm saying, at which point it might be a moot point. If what anyone does here doesn't violate the spirit of board rules and norms as the admin envisions them, then it really isn't my concern anymore. But I wouldn't try to justify them based on a technicality. One of the reasons I'm saying that I think this needs to be a dialogue is because I believe there are other voices that need to be involved in this conversation where opinions are discussed and digested--preferably in the open so the forum membership can really consider and understand these issues.