INCEPTION Discussion Thread (***Spoilers!!!***)

[Devil_666]

Mag, you keep bringing up Occum's razor and I keep telling you: the simplest explanation that requires the least amount of assumption and hypothesis is that the ending is a dream. To say it's real requires a lot of assumption including assuming Saito/Cobb shoot themselves in Limbo. Something never seen (like the train scene with Cobb and Mal). Hell you never even see Saito pick up the gun and point it at himself OR Cobb. You assume he does all this.

 

[CelticPredator]

It can be assumed either way. I mean...you can assume they shot each other, they woke up, he got home, saw his kids.

Or, you can assume he shot saito, and perhaps never shot himself, and stayed in the dream.

One thing I know is wrong, is people assuming they inceptioned Cobb for some weird reason....that I dont buy...haha.

 

[Biojex]

We need king darkness in here to say "too many words"

 

[Deckard]

One thing I know is wrong, is people assuming they inceptioned Cobb for some weird reason....that I dont buy...haha.

Why not, its called Inception, it's performed on Robert, Mal and Saito, why not Cobb himself? It's no crazier to me then him risking his life to go into limbo and provides Cobb with the happiest ending possible.

Imagine in real life a guy accused of murdering his wife runs to another county to avoid trial and gets let go of any charges because a large energy corporation called in a favor to the government. You think he wouldn't get backlash from protestors or be on the news? Inception allows him to never have to deal with any of that sort of distrust from people, his own children when they grow old enough to understand what he did, and from his mother in law etc. He can also make up the time he lost when he was gone.

In real life Cobb would still have constant reminders of Mal and what he did.

 

[Devil_666]

Yeah that's another thing I don't really buy..

gets let go of any charges because a large energy corporation called in a favor to the government.

That's one of the most unbelievable aspects of the "real world" ending theory.

Saito isn't American and his company isn't American (it's actually a competitor) and yet this guy makes a single phone call and ALL charges are dropped without question on murder charges that have been withstanding for years. Cobb doesn't even have to see or meet with anyone at the airport.. those charges are just gone. Within minutes mind you.

THEN..

He immediately goes to his old house (which he no longer owns) and gets to see his kids (which he no longer has custody of) and Mal's mom (who doesn't like him, established earlier in the film) is nowhere to be seen. Actually no one is seen watching the children.

Then the kids you see at the end are the same exact kids seen in the earlier dream with Cobb, Mal and Ariadne.

There's just so much about the ending that's off, and it requires so much explanation, assumption and hypothesis that it becomes almost comical. As opposed to the simple and straight to the point explanation that the ending is a dream.

Obviously there's no right or wrong answer. And there's no definitive answer. But to me, it just seems far fetched to assume the ending is real. And more realistic to assume it's a dream since it's a movie.. about.. dreams.

Plus I made this:

Which clearly proves the end is a dream.

 

[MarfMaster]

 

[Deckard]

Discussion over, lock thread please /

 

[wofford29]

From what I've read in this thread both sides are equally assuming things within the story to make it fit their beliefs on how they want it to end. It's a brilliant film for many reasons, not the least of which is its ambiguity.

Spoiler

I'm incepting you all right now with this thought. You're gay.

 

[Deckard]

Spoiler

I'm incepting you all right now with this thought. You're gay.

Spoiler

I like weiners now.

 

[wofford29]

 

[Devil_666]

From what I've read in this thread both sides are equally assuming things within the story to make it fit their beliefs on how they want it to end.

Not really, because I couldn't care less (so you don't get at me for putting "could" lol) either way. I'm unbiased. I'm open to either possibility. Either explanation if proven definitive would be acceptable to me.

But as far as assumptions, IMO if you believe the ending is a dream that's 1 assumption you have to make. It's a dream. Period. It explains everything.

On the flip side, if you believe it's real THEN you have to make a whole list of assumptions and theories and that's what makes it hard to buy. At least for me.

And just to clarify: If anyone reads Maglor's post (recommended) he talks about the two types of dreams in the movie. 1 as "Natural" and 1 as "Somnacin". To make it more simplified, let's call 1 "Natural" which is what we all have when we sleep and let's call the other "Machine" which covers ANY type of dream that involves using that machine (in the suitcase) in the film.

There's actually a third type of dream that Maglor doesn't mention, and this is the type of dream I believe the ending is. I call it "Comatose" dreaming. Which is initially a Somnacin/Machine dream followed by Comatose/Natural dreaming as result of a severe conscious/sub-conscious complete mental breakdown. This also carries over to the real world where the person is essentially considered comatose/a vegetable.

This type of dream/outcome IS mentioned after the team is attacked by Fisher Jr.s sub-conscious guards on the first level down of Inception. They mention how going into Limbo combined with the powerful sedative being used could cause someone to go comatose in the real world and end up with a brain like "scrambled eggs".

Think about this: Fisher Jr & Saito supposedly go to Limbo after they're killed on the 3rd level down. But Cobb and Ariadne apparently get there by inducing a 4th Somnacin/Machine dream (still not sure how that's even possible and how simply going down another level will immediately put them in limbo!?). And if the level Cobb and Ariadne go to is truly limbo, how was Cobb's projection of Mal already there holding Fisher Jr hostage!?

Not to mention if that level is truly limbo, that means that Fisher was actually in limbo LONGER than Saito. And it also means Cobb was in limbo ALMOST as long as Saito as well. Because Fisher Jr dies BEFORE Saito. And Cobb supposedly goes to limbo shortly after Saito dies.

Yet Saito is an old man and Fisher Jr./Cobb aren't!?

I think all the dreams within dreams within dreams within dreams plus extensive time in limbo on numerous occasions finally took their toll on Cobb. And at the end when he's finally with his kids and happy and everything is picture perfect, in the real world Cobb is a complete vegetable on the plane in a permanent comatose.

 

[daikkenaurora]

hahaha Good stuff. that picture is funny as hell.

 

[wofford29]

Not really, because I couldn't care less (so you don't get at me for putting "could" lol) either way. I'm unbiased. I'm open to either possibility. Either explanation if proven definitive would be acceptable to me.

But as far as assumptions, IMO if you believe the ending is a dream that's 1 assumption you have to make. It's a dream. Period. It explains everything.

On the flip side, if you believe it's real THEN you have to make a whole list of assumptions and theories and that's what makes it hard to buy. At least for me.

And just to clarify: If anyone reads Maglor's post (recommended) he talks about the two types of dreams in the movie. 1 as "Natural" and 1 as "Somnacin". To make it more simplified, let's call 1 "Natural" which is what we all have when we sleep and let's call the other "Machine" which covers ANY type of dream that involves using that machine (in the suitcase) in the film.

There's actually a third type of dream that Maglor doesn't mention, and this is the type of dream I believe the ending is. I call it "Comatose" dreaming. Which is initially a Somnacin/Machine dream followed by Comatose/Natural dreaming as result of a severe conscious/sub-conscious complete mental breakdown. This also carries over to the real world where the person is essentially considered comatose/a vegetable.

This type of dream/outcome IS mentioned after the team is attacked by Fisher Jr.s sub-conscious guards on the first level down of Inception. They mention how going into Limbo combined with the powerful sedative being used could cause someone to go comatose in the real world and end up with a brain like "scrambled eggs".

Think about this: Fisher Jr & Saito supposedly go to Limbo after they're killed on the 3rd level down. But Cobb and Ariadne apparently get there by inducing a 4th Somnacin/Machine dream (still not sure how that's even possible and how simply going down another level will immediately put them in limbo!?). And if the level Cobb and Ariadne go to is truly limbo, how was Cobb's projection of Mal already there holding Fisher Jr hostage!?

Not to mention if that level is truly limbo, that means that Fisher was actually in limbo LONGER than Saito. And it also means Cobb was in limbo ALMOST as long as Saito as well. Because Fisher Jr dies BEFORE Saito. And Cobb supposedly goes to limbo shortly after Saito dies.

Yet Saito is an old man and Fisher Jr./Cobb aren't!?

I think all the dreams within dreams within dreams within dreams plus extensive time in limbo on numerous occasions finally took their toll on Cobb. And at the end when he's finally with his kids and happy and everything is picture perfect, in the real world Cobb is a complete vegetable on the plane in a permanent comatose.

Without having to quote every post in this thread I'll just use the example we discussed directly as an example of assumption. You constructed the entire relationship between Mal and Cobb that is not written, shown or even hinted at. You assumed everything about their marital relationship and them sharing everything, including their information about the totems. The only thing we're told is that totem's were Mal's idea and you shouldn't let someone else handle it. Everything else you typed you just assume. You came up with it to fit your idea. No matter how right or plausible it's still an assumption just like everyone elses in here, no matter how bat ____ing crazy theirs may be.

For the record. I enjoy reading all these interpretations. It's what makes the film great and what will make it a classic in the future. When people discuss it, it'll always be more than just a surface level discussion. I could go either way with ending, I tend to steer towards reality just based on Nolan's comments and how I interpret certain things. I do think dream or reality is the least important theme in the entire movie so I don't really get caught up in any serious debate about it because it's not important to me.

Spoiler

The Joker's coat has four tails!

 

[Devil_666]

Without having to quote every post in this thread I'll just use the example we discussed directly as an example of assumption.

Don't, because that's all it was: discussion. We discussed various points but disregarding everything we've discussed and starting with a clean slate, the ending can be summed up with one assumption: it was a dream. You can't sum up the ending with only one assumption if you believe it's real. Just can't. Sure you could say "It's real, that's one" but you know what I mean. With the assumption it's a dream, it explains everything and for every point brought up the answer remains the same: it was a dream. Can't do that if the ending is supposed to be real. Too many assumptions have to be made and too many theories.

Spoiler

The Joker's coat has four tails!

I'll let you in on a little not-so-well-known-secret: I always believed that.

 

[wofford29]

Why I outta!

 

[Devil_666]

Re-read that discussion and it'll crack you up knowing that tidbit. I got A LOT of people to either flip their original stance to "mine" or at the very least got A LOT of people to doubt.

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

Wow this thread has been really active the past few days. Nice.....

 

[CelticPredator]

I still think mine is the best. He just doesnt care.


About black people....:

 

[Devil_666]

So that's why there's no black people on Cobb's team.

*Arnold Voice*

Sonovabish.

 

[DiFabio]

Christopher Nolan must be a racist. I mean it makes sense considering he's a member of the Illuminati and all.