Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (June 30th, 2023)

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

I’m donating money to Continue the ST Timeline charity lol

Definitely qualifies as misuse

 

[Wor-Gar]

Rey will have a child of immaculate conception -- just like Snooz or whatever Anakin's Mom's name was -- and That Child will bring about a disturbance in The Force.

The Child will be known a Rey-bay... until it is named.

Many will say it is Kylo's baby.

Many will say it is the reincarnation of Darth Plagueis just because they play that same beat of Williams music.

Some will say its Baby Grogu.

Others will say its Luke's baby.

But they will all be wrong.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I think they should bring back Short Round for part 5. He should be a Doctor/explorer just like Indy. I'm surprised they didn't think of it considering there is such an emphasis from Hollywood to cater to China. It's the one Chinese character that wouldn't feel force or out of place and it would tie with a previous film. I think he'd make a cool character. Steven Yeun would make a perfect adult Short Round. Good actor too, was nominated for best actor in 2021.

I bet adult Short Round would wear a similar outfit as a homage to his friend, Indy.

 

[jye4ever]

He looks like Jackie Chan now lol

 

[Asta]

What would you call US actions in Afghanistan though? "white hero battles evil natives and enables the saving of enslaved native children" pretty much described the US/European allies and Taliban didn't it?

And what's happening right now on that front in terms of the US/allies withdrawal and Afghan govt's ability to hold off the Taliban as aid groups and many Afghan people are nervous about withdrawl - "ineptitude or inability of natives to help themselves, especially so since the villagers plead with him for his help."

There's this whole thing around the "white savior" but we didn't see any black or brown saviors (inclduing in the region) rushing in to help Afghan civilians or those girls who wanted school, right?

So should Indy have stayed home? Maybe in this woke era, he, and in the real world the US and the West generally, should. Maybe people would rather have no help than a white savior?

Fiction has the ability to present ideas in a very specific way. Looking from the nineteenth century up to the 1940s, western literature, films and serials often dealt with colonial themes with the assumption of superiority over the remote, 'savage' lands. Those wild lands were exciting, strange places for white men and women to explore, and eventually triumph. Tarzan is an obvious example of the white man who ends up as the literal, 'Lord of the Jungle'.

In TOD it was literally spelled out that Indy was the saviour, even though he hadn't wanted to get involved:

Indiana Jones: We weren't brought here. Our plane crashed.

Willie: [nodding and smiling] It crashed.

Shaman of Maypore: [laughing] No, no, no. We prayed to Shiva to help us find the stone. It was Shiva who made you fall from sky. So you will go to Pankot Palace... and find Shivalinga... and bring back to us. Bring back to us. Bring back to us.

Mayapore was helpless, it's people praying for aid. Indy falls from the sky and is taken to fulfil a prophesy, even though he was initially the unwilling hero.

While his reluctance is a contemporary (for Lucas and Spielberg) rejection of his superior role, it is also an expression of his roguish and selfish nature - the same nature that meant he thought it was okay to loot a cultural artefact so it could be displayed in a museum.

Since Lucas and Spielberg were making 1930s/1940s films in the 1980s, they had the benefit of hindsight. So while they portray Indy as that earlier archetypal white hero, who would've been familiar to the audiences of the cliffhanger serials, they also portray his selfishness, which is an expression of the reality behind the old fictional ideals.

EDIT:

TOD is a story in the tradition of those that inspired it. The white man is literally regarded as a superior being come down from the heavens to save the village and its children.

Of course, there were earlier tales that challenged such views. As with Conrad's Heart of Darkness where Kurtz managed to get himself revered as a god like being. However, that strange, dark, alluring world of opportunity eventually sent him mad.

For all his unsavoury attitudes, Indy was actually closer to Marlow in Heart of Darkness, because he initially resisted the temptation. But it didn't take him long to change his mind, as there was an ulterior motive: finding the Sankara Stones.

He's a changed person by the end:

Willie: [about the Sankara Stone] You could have kept it.

Indiana Jones: Nah, it would of just been another rock collecting dust.

Willie: Yeah, but it would have given you your fortune and glory.

Since this takes place in 1935, the change obviously didn't stick because the following year he was in Peru going after the Chachapoyan Idol (!)

 

[Asta]

Holy crap, I never even thought of that.

I just thought the idol was considered, lost, so Indy, the good natured hero, found it. I never considered the idea that the natives knew the location of the idol and just left it alone because it was protected by the traps and because it was where it belonged. Oh dear. See, this is why you can't overanalyze these things.

This is from Campbell Black's novel:

He took the dart. Crude but effective. He thought of the Hovitos, their legendary fierceness, their historic attachment to the Temple. They were superstitious enough to stay away from the Temple itself, but definitely jealous enough to kill anybody else who went there.

And the arrival of Belloq which, I think, makes the Hovitos' intention to retrieve the idol more explicit than the film:

Indy looked in the direction of the warriors. "And the Hovitos expect you to hand the idol over to them?"

"Quite," Belloq said.

Indy laughed. "Naive of them."

"As you say," Belloq remarked. "If only you spoke their language, you could advise them otherwise, of course."​

The film version:

Belloq: Dr. Jones. Again we see there is nothing you can possess which I cannot take away. And you thought I'd given up.

[Indy reaches for his gun, but pauses and hands over his gun when the warriors draw back their weapons]

Belloq: You chose the wrong friends. This time it will cost you.

Indiana: Too bad the Hovitos don't know you the way I do, Belloq.

[hands over the prized idol to Belloq]

Belloq: Yes, too bad. You could warn them... if only you spoke Hovitos.

But then, when Belloq holds the idol up, they fall to their knees in reverence:

There's no doubt that it's a cultural artefact that Belloq and Indy were trying to loot.

 

[xipotec]

No one has a problem with natural organic diversity what they have a problem with is forced diversity huge difference.

Just go back to Leia, Marion, Ripley, Sarah Connor, Lewis (Robocop), female warriors in Road Warrior, Turner in Beyond Thunderdome, Laurie Halloween, Alice F13th part 1 I can keep going, Arnold in Different Strokes lol to see it done right.

I can tell you as a brasilian arab I don’t need you or anyone else protecting my feelings when Arnold in True Lies takes out terrorist arabs.

It’s ridiculous Cameron won’t release that movie for that stupid reason.

I’m not saying your intentions are bad but please stop worrying about protecting me I am perfectly capable of defending myself and that is something I don’t need protection from.

I don’t need my established movie heroes to look or be like me that’s freaking boring I want them to be who they are so Luke, Superman, Lando, Blade, and Ripley are perfect as they are!

I don’t need Arnold from Different Strokes to be a white female kid he is perfect as he is.

That’s natural organic diversity.

Laughable.
The people whom worry about SJW will NEVER allownatural diversity.....the instant a female or a person of color shows up in a film TRAILER as a major character the usual suspects already dumping on it and claiming forced diversity......and cancel culture.

it’s all over the place all the time.

and we definetly do not need statues of people in history that supported segregation , slavery or any other types of suppression. Those statues were put in place as reminders of people who fought for slavery, and to keep that thought in the heads of the people whom had to walk by it daily.....to remind them that they are surrounded by people whom would glorify those days.... it’s nonsense. Why are there no statues of the slaves whom suffered during that time? Only the leaders and soldiers whom defended (and lost) those ideals.

Germany had no statues of Hitler because they know it’s inappropriate.

Only in the American south, and Midwest, do you fine statues all over the place , erected in the Jim Crow era, glorifying a failed secession rooted in slavery money.....

Good luck finding a General Lee statue of prominence north of Maryland.

 

[Asta]

I had no idea that Indy recovered the fertility idol later on. It must have been in a novel or comic?




So the descendants got their idol back, but Indy defeated them all to give it back to the museum. Damn.

That was the story, "The Gold Goddess" in the comic. I have the complete run of them, but never did more than look at the pictures. lol

 

[Asta]

and we definetly do not need statues of people in history that supported segregation , slavery or any other types of suppression. Those statues were put in place as reminders of people who fought for slavery, and to keep that thought in the heads of the people whom had to walk by it daily.....to remind them that they are surrounded by people whom would glorify those days.... it’s nonsense. Why are there no statues of the slaves whom suffered during that time? Only the leaders and soldiers whom defended (and lost) those ideals.

I don't care too deeply either way, but it's a slippery slope.

Spoiler

If you take it to the extreme you'd have to knock down many of the great buildings in the western world, because they were built on the proceeds from slavery. The same would apply to the Middle East too.

Should the rest of the Colosseum in Rome be demolished because it was a place where murder and animal cruelty took place for public spectacle?

The concentration camps remain as reminders of the evil that people are capable of.

I think the statues of the likes of slavers should remain, but clearly marked for who they were. Not as memorials to great people, but warnings from history that these things should not be tolerated again. They become symbols of disgrace, rather than glory.

History is messy.

We look back at it now with our accumulated knowledge and judgment based on ethics, and it's hard to understand how the Roman Empire, as highly civilised as it was, allowed itself to be so brutal. Likewise with the British Empire, or the building of the United States.

The hope is that we learn from the atrocities of the past. Though I don't put much hope on that because humans revert too easily to values we thought should've been banished.

Germany had no statues of Hitler because they know it’s inappropriate.

There was a more specific reason for that, and it's the same reason why there was no tomb. In 1945 the Allies, and likely most Germans by then, didn't want there to be any focal point for a rebirth of Nazi ideology. No memorials for the man who, at the end, ordered the destruction of Berlin out of spite because he blamed the people for his own failure.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Laughable.
The people whom worry about SJW will NEVER allownatural diversity.....the instant a female or a person of color shows up in a film TRAILER as a major character the usual suspects already dumping on it and claiming forced diversity......and cancel culture.

it’s all over the place all the time.

This is such a lie. Leia, Cara Dune, Fennec Shand, Ahsoka Tano, etc. Nice try though.

The statue topic is a whole different discussion not suited for a toy forum.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But we have dedicated Statue sections in this Forum.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

But we have dedicated Statue sections in this Forum.

Knock them over. Bust them to pieces in your home. Spray paint them. Be ashamed of them. There is no place for these symbols of toxic masculinity such as Indiana Jones, Luke Skywalker, etc.

 

[jye4ever]

Knock them over. Bust them to pieces in your home. Spray paint them. Be ashamed of them. There is no place for these symbols of toxic masculinity such as Indiana Jones, Luke Skywalker, etc.

 

[jye4ever]

While the ST is a guilty pleasure of mine because of the OT cast no doubt it is infuriating that they couldn’t even bother to lay out a vision with $300 at their disposal.

Oh well I am going to cringe and then be sad while watching a 105 year old Indy running on a train on opening night lol

I just hope Clown uses his pug gif that day.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Young Ford gimping along the train roof... throwing exaggerated punches with extra SFX crack.

If Adventure has a Name...










Do you think they'll dare put out the line: I'm getting too old for this -- PUNCH!!!

 

[jye4ever]

Which is worse having older than KOTCS Indy fight a bad guy his age or a young big bad guy.

When I say young he can still be in his 40s which is still super young when compared to Indy lol

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Knock them over. Bust them to pieces in your home. Spray paint them. Be ashamed of them. There is no place for these symbols of toxic masculinity such as Indiana Jones....

Fixed.

Don't even try to sneak in Luke in there. Luke is as masculine as a Spice Girl.



*Spice Girls were a popular girl band in the mid to late 90's

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Which is worse having older than KOTCS Indy fight a bad guy his age or a young big bad guy.

When I say young he can still be in his 40s which is still super young when compared to Indy lol

Compared to Indy, 50 is still young. To put it in perspective, Short Round is in his 50's.

I don't want to see Indy fist fighting young guys. It makes no sense. Just have him use his whip more and shoot people, which he didn't do that much in KOTKS. He needs to kill more people than he did in KOTKS. Young CGI Indy can do all the fist fighting.

 

[jye4ever]

Nazi henchmen revealed

 

[Luisenigma1]

What the hell is going on in this thread. Lmao in all seriousness though I wish we'd gotten this instead of a fifth film. At least this would been able to continue and could tell various stories.