Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (June 30th, 2023)

[jye4ever]

I thought was well documented there was some action star in the 40s or 50s movies that wore Indy's exact get up.

Not to mention Jim Steranko kind of single-handedly designing the look in pre-production.

But whatever. Obviously the character Indy, as well as the actual men Lucas and Spielberg are RAAAYYCCIIIIIST and should be scoured from the annals of human history, like just about everyone else.




Isn't anyone else exhausted by this at all?

Oh. Sorry. This is POLITICS and that's verboten.

For a good reason. It bores the living piss out of me. No more politics and "isms" and "ists" and "phobics" in these discussions...please? Can't we just talk about movies??

Every single human being alive is a racist of some kind even if just 1% you are still a racist.

Don’t lose sleep over it lol

 

[EcklecticBadges]

That is a great post Asta and I can definitely see similarities in those clips.

I am sure I read previously the costume of Charlton Heston's character in Secret of the Incas was a big inspiration for the look of Indiana Jones as Wor Gar mentioned above.

It must be hard to come up with totally original ideas but as long as you take existing ones and put your own unique stamp on them then that can work I think.

 

[Wor-Gar]

20 years in the future:

Future Man #1: (with a smile) No, I'm a racist. How about you?

Future Man #2: Oh yes, of course. Fully. Can you believe some people aren't?

Both h/she's laugh.

 

[Asta]

I thought was well documented there was some action star in the 40s or 50s movies that wore Indy's exact get up.

Charlton Heston in Secret of the Incas (1954):

But whatever. Obviously the character Indy, as well as the actual men Lucas and Spielberg are RAAAYYCCIIIIIST and should be scoured from the annals of human history, like just about everyone else.




Isn't anyone else exhausted by this at all?

Oh. Sorry. This is POLITICS and that's verboten.

For a good reason. It bores the living piss out of me. No more politics and "isms" and "ists" and "phobics" in these discussions...please? Can't we just talk about movies??

You're completely missing the point. It's not politics as much as history.

What Lucas and Spielberg were doing was re-making their childhood nostalgia, incorporating characters, situations and attitudes that were prevalent in those nostalgic films and series. I don't believe there was a malicious intent to be racist (though according to Indian authorities they overstepped the mark with TOD).

Indy was a man of the 1930s, not the 1980s. The first two films in particular were stories very much in line with earlier tales of Americans and Europeans, where far off places were the backdrop for their adventures and triumphs.

 

[jye4ever]

20 years in the future:

Future Man #1: (with a smile) No, I'm a racist. How about you?

Future Man #2: Oh yes, of course. Fully. Can you believe some people aren't?

Both h/she's laugh.

 

[Asta]

Long ago they said they got Indy's outfit from Charlton Heston in Secret of the Incas.

But that ''leather jacket and wide-brim hat'' look was a quite a popular hero outfit in the 30's and 40's through the the 50's. I've seen similar versions in a lot of old movies and thought to myself that must be where they got the idea.

I was so long typing you got there before me!

 

[jye4ever]

Charlton Heston in Secret of the Incas (1954):

You're completely missing the point. It's not politics as much as history.

What Lucas and Spielberg were doing was re-making their childhood nostalgia, incorporating characters, situations and attitudes that were prevalent in those nostalgic films and series. I don't believe there was a malicious intent to be racist (though according to Indian authorities they overstepped the mark with TOD).

Indy was a man of the 1930s, not the 1980s. The first two films in particular were stories very much in line with earlier tales of Americans and Europeans, where far off places were the backdrop for their adventures and triumphs.

Jupiter’s Legacy tried to capture this and failed miserably lol

 

[Wor-Gar]

It must be hard to come up with totally original ideas but as long as you take existing ones and put your own unique stamp on them then that can work I think.

They were going for that serial feel so they borrowed, stole, homaged very familiar images -- very Americana adventure hero stuff. The lifts were deliberate. As much as they were in Star Wars -- meshing together the familiar to create something new.

 

[EcklecticBadges]

Agreed. There seems to be a total lack of ideas in movies these days for me. It is almost as if the writers have only watched a handful of movies and all of them seem to be forgettable.

 

[Asta]

Spielberg specifically mentioned in a video that the 1942 serial, Spy Smasher, as one of his inspirations. I think it was Steranko, rather than Struzan, who noted in one of their books that they saw it among the film reels in the back of Spielberg's car when they met while prepping for ROTLA.

I think this plus Secret of the Incas must've sealed the deal for Indy's iconic jacket.

 

[jye4ever]

They were going for that serial feel so they borrowed, stole, homaged very familiar images -- very Americana adventure hero stuff. The lifts were deliberate. As much as they were in Star Wars -- meshing together the familiar to create something new.

Can you imagine how many great grandfathers dressed like Indy during the gold rush.

Mine weren’t even in this country and they dressed like him lol

That being said my dad dressed like an Indy spy companion.

 

[Asta]

Just found the Steranko quote under one of my old Kuat of Kuat posts in the 'Temple of Doom Fans' thread.

George Lucas was working on a new film project and called Steranko, inquiring if he’d be interested in creating a series of production illustrations, just as Ralph McQuarrie had done for the Star Wars movies…’It’s an old-fashioned movie, in the mode of a serial,’ Lucas explained. ‘It’s based on an old story idea of mine and what I’d really like to do is see that movie!’
…

Steranko flew out to the West Coast to meet with [Spielberg] and discuss his approach and inspirations. Spielberg was busy editing 1941 at a Burbank facility when the two men connected. After chatting for a while, the director suggested they continue at dinner and they piled in his car to drive to a nearby restaurant. His inspirations became immediately obvious: the back seat of the car was stacked with a multitude of film cans. Steranko noted a few of their titles: Spy Smasher and Zorro’s Fighting Legion, the serial reference Lucas had mentioned during the initial phone call.

…

Raiders was not, [Spielberg] explained, a suspense film. The plot was rooted in the action-adventure genre. The characters were larger than life; the locations were exotic, at times, bordering on the fantastic; and the set pieces were to be evocative of their period. Action, he stressed, was the keynote, and the plot was to feature enough cliffhangers to stock a serial – which accounted for the homework in the car, which Spielberg would survey to hone his handling of the script’s daredevil stuntwork and explosive movement.

Jim Steranko: Arte Noir, Jim Steranko, J. David Spurlock & Angel de la Calle (2002)

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Charlton Heston in Secret of the Incas (1954):

You're completely missing the point. It's not politics as much as history.

What Lucas and Spielberg were doing was re-making their childhood nostalgia, incorporating characters, situations and attitudes that were prevalent in those nostalgic films and series. I don't believe there was a malicious intent to be racist (though according to Indian authorities they overstepped the mark with TOD).

Indy was a man of the 1930s, not the 1980s. The first two films in particular were stories very much in line with earlier tales of Americans and Europeans, where far off places were the backdrop for their adventures and triumphs.

Interesting, if I was a filmmaker and were to re make my childhood heroes in 2021, they'd all be large muscular shirtless man using big guns (or swords) and their well defined muscles to save the day. Lots of flexing too.

Spoiler

 

[Asta]

Interesting, if I was a filmmaker and were to re make my childhood heroes in 2021, they'd all be large muscular shirtless man using big guns and their well defined muscles to save the day. Lots of flexing too.

Spoiler

I remember one day, when I was very young, at home watching the educational TV programmes that were broadcast so schools could play them in class.

One of them was a drama, and all I remember from it was a scene between a father and son. The father was concerned that the son had a poster of a half naked man on his bedroom wall. I didn't know then, but that half naked man was Bruce Lee!

 

[jye4ever]

What would you call US actions in Afghanistan though? "white hero battles evil natives and enables the saving of enslaved native children" pretty much described the US/European allies and Taliban didn't it?

And what's happening right now on that front in terms of the US/allies withdrawal and Afghan govt's ability to hold off the Taliban as aid groups and many Afghan people are nervous about withdrawl - "ineptitude or inability of natives to help themselves, especially so since the villagers plead with him for his help."

There's this whole thing around the "white savior" but we didn't see any black or brown saviors (inclduing in the region) rushing in to help Afghan civilians or those girls who wanted school, right?

So should Indy have stayed home? Maybe in this woke era, he, and in the real world the US and the West generally, should. Maybe people would rather have no help than a white savior?

Wait so there are no black and brown soldiers in the US and Europe that went to that region?

 

[TaliBane]

Excellent point. There was a cheapness and a laziness to the entire movie. Donovan's suite looked like they borrowed the dining room from cloud city... and that leap of faith sight-gag was the most idiotic beat in the movie -- Indy really couldn't see the rock-bridge trick that only works from a single angle (which the camera clearly displays).

Your comparison of the Raiders Truck Chase made me think of the Joneses in the plane: "Son, they got us." Totally different tone. And the constant compulsion to ignore logic shows either Spielberg's ego at the time or his total boredom with the subject (likely both).

One of the things that drove me crazy was when the plane sweeps into the tunnel -- there's a great suspense shot of the Joneses unable to drive faster that the speeding fuselage burning up the tunnel behind them -- its like the boulder all over again but on fire! -- but suddenly, the flaming plane simply passes them -- pilot looking as confused as they do -- the tunnel magically accommodating the entire burning plane and the car -- and the moment is thrown away on a dumb joke. This beat encapsulates what they do to every action sequence. All the way to Indy getting trapped between tank and rocky ridge by his... bag strap? But of course, trapped only until he climbs back onboard and never has to remove his tangled strap from the canon he was just strung up to.

If Adventure has a Name... its Mindless.

Oh that plane gag - yikes. And the Cloud City/Donovan suite is spot-on.

The rock bridge illusion reminds me of that gag from Dumb and Dumber To where the bad guy has rocks realstically painted onto his body/clothes to perfectly blend in.

I do have custom desert Vogel in the works though, and I do like my SSC Henry Jones.

 

[TaliBane]

You and I must have had the same summer in Los Angeles.

The ramp up to Summer '89 was huge, and not just because of Batman... but because there were going to be more sequels in one summer than ever before.

It was like the Great Climax to the 80's!!!

But it all changed. Everything felt cheap and un-cared for. The summer dragged on with one disappointment after another. It all made the mediocre film-making of Batman look good and fresh by comparison.

But that summer had some fun music at least.

I ran up the back of tourist on Hollywood Blvd on the way to see TLC so maybe I should have known. It was a good summer that went south fast, and with Batman 89 my roommate had this colossal Batman theater standee in our tiny living room that I wanted to burn - sort of took over our lives (that and his reluctance to do dishes for weeks.)

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I had no idea that Indy recovered the fertility idol later on. It must have been in a novel or comic?

Belloq promptly unloaded the artifact in Marrakesh, where Jones later re-appropriated it from the shop of antiquities dealer Saad Hassin.

The National Museum celebrated the idol's arrival with a lavish banquet at the Diamond's Eye nightclub in New York City. Among the guests was a band of angry Hovitos led by Xomec, alleged descendant of the Chachapoyans. Xomec swiped the idol from curator Marcus Brody and fled to the jungles of Brazil. Jones gave chase, and after defeating Xomec and his Nazi co-conspirator Ilsa Toht, once again reclaimed the idol for the museum.[2]

So the descendants got their idol back, but Indy defeated them all to give it back to the museum. Damn.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Every single human being alive is a racist of some kind even if just 1% you are still a racist.

Don’t lose sleep over it lol

At least you acknowledge your own transgressions jye, or possibly just the transgressions of your ancestors or perhaps just someone you once knew. Now go donate some or all of your money to an organization likely to misuse it so you can feel better about yourself, you darn racist.

 

[jye4ever]

At least you acknowledge your own transgressions jye, or possibly just the transgressions of your ancestors or perhaps just someone you once knew. Now go donate some or all of your money to an organization likely to misuse it so you can feel better about yourself, you darn racist.

I’m donating money to Continue the ST Timeline charity lol