Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[photoshopmagician]

I like it. It was fun and just about equivilant to the first 3 films. While the first 3 will always be better and still retain that "classic" Indy feel. KOTCS still feels like Indy, it's just different for us because he's old now and it's the 50's, not the 30's. We're so used to the 30's Indy that the 50's Indy seems "boring" to us.

I thought everything was great, and while it wasn't perfect, people shouldn't look to it as a revelation. It was a movie! I thought it was great and loved it!!

When Shia was about to put on the hat at the end everyone in the theater booed and hissed

 

[Deak Starkiller]

My take

The bad...

Ok here goes fellas. First off I am a die hard Indy fan, yes I love TOD and Last Crusade as well. The problem I have with IJATKOTCS is that it is forgetting what makes Indy, Indy! Unfortunately you can put most of the blame on George Lucas, his finger prints are all over this movie (see gophers, monkey swinging, fridge in desert?) and way too much odd cgi. Also Indy seems to be actually sitting by and allowing the events to unfold and unravel as others figure out the actual plot (see crazy old man Ox). The other thing I have a problem with is the thought of actual aliens in the film, it just doesn't feel or look right at all. Now if they had implied aliens like seeing the Russians reactions instead of seeing the dead corpse of the little green man that would have been different. If they kept Indy grounded in reality or at least the aliens up to interpretation (like the McGuffins powers in the previous films) then I would have been more on board. To me it would have been cooler to see a side silhouette shot over the shoulder of the alien and seeing Spalko's head explode, you know implying the aliens rather than giving you the George Lucas cgi money shot. I just feel as if there has always been a supernatural element in the series thus far, but it's always been grounded in reality somewhat. The movie felt too much like the Indy's greatest hits and that the film was trying too hard to please, Steven and George don't really need to do that, they just needed their A game and things would have been fine. Make the movie that caters to quality, you don't have to show the ark of the covenant, all they could've done was play the theme of the ark and recreate the shot of the warehouse doors opening and any true fan would have picked up on that alone as being cool. This unfortunately feels more like the Mummy or National Treasure movies than an Indy adventure. But don't fret kids there is some things to love in the film.

The Good...

The way the movie looks. Spielberg is still the master at the shots he chooses and the movie really shows it. Also the characters are awesome: Spalko, Mutt, Mac, even Dovchenko! They are all welcome additions to the cast of characters from previous films. The introduction of the Russians was actually pretty cool too, Dovchenko's in particular felt very much like a Metal Gear cut scene (which is a compliment). Another great addition was Mutt, I know there are a lot of haters on Shia but I really do enjoy his roles as an actor and he really brings a lot of heart and charm to this character. Hell he is the only one to even really bleed or cuss! I know Indy was hurt a little too but not like Mutt in the movie. Another positive thing to say would be the score, again felt like the greatest hits of Indy minus the TOD themes but it was pretty solid. I know this is going to sound scatter brained which it probably is considering when I got home and when I am writing this but I just feel as if this movie missed it's mark. A lot to like but no love, at least not yet. Maybe I'll turn into an apologist like I did with the Phantom Menace (which IJATKOTCS did not give me that new movie glaze over my eyes like Episode I had) but I am just not seeing it all here kids. Oh nice to see the janitor from SCRUBS and Charles Widmore from LOST in the movie. I am curious to see how the film plays on repeat viewings but we'll see. 2.75 out of 5, the 3rd best sequel to ROTLA.

 

[denger4000]

Got back from seeing it last night, all I have to say is Close Encounters of the Third kind 2, er I mean Indiana Jones 4 was alright, had some decent parts but the aliens kind of killed it for me.

 

[Gruson]

Don't EVEN compare this movie to Close Encounters!!!!

Close Encounters is a masterpiece.

Indy IV is well, don't get me started again!

I will say at least John Williams used the themes perfectly. I did like how he used the "grail" theme when it showed the picture of Henry. Nice touch....same with the Ark and Marion themes.

 

[Entropy]

All the character stuff was great. The mentions of Marcus and Henry Snr. were wonderful as were the interactions between Marion and Indy & Mutt and Indy. Jon Hurt and Ray Winstone were wasted in lame one dimensional roles that only served to give exposition and move the story forward. They seemed thrown in just to get Indy or the Russians to go somewhere.

The plot, especially the "threat" of the Russians getting the skull... not so great. No real threat there. I had no problem with the concept of aliens, just the manner in which they were handled in this movie. The skull has magical power mind control and magnetic properties because it's a piece of an inter dimensional alien that once reattached to its skeleton body, reanimates the alien skeleton, bestowing knowledge to the one returning the skull which made Spalko's head explode and body disintegrate before the saucer blinks back into whatever dimension it came from... um ok. Even Lara Croft would find that a bit over the top.

As I said before in the other thread, some are going to fixate on the sloppy, goofy flaws of the film and hate it, others are going to overlook the bad bits, only focusing on the good, and love it. If you look at both aspects, it's an enjoyable film but not as well written as the other 3.

 

[Gruson]

There was so little good...that is the problem.

I was REALLY hoping it would get better after the nuke scene but it never did.

I wanted to just fast forward through so many scenes…..I also thought about walking out more than once.

Glad I didn’t though. I would have missed:

-funny gophers

-three waterfalls

-swinging monkeys

-fistfight in the middle of ants

-Shai getting racked 10 times in a row

-Kate holding a sword, trying to look scary

-crazy guy holding a shiny skull for hours

-lead fridge

-Brody’s smiling head falling off

-snake rope

-Marion pretending to drive, just holding a steering wheel

-Marion coaching the sword fight between the cars

-Marion driving off a cliff

-tree branch killing most of the Russians

-the phasing mothership

-jumping martial arts guys, trying to be scary

-and of course, the ALIEN with knowledge

Oh man...what a disaster.

The Indy "magic" was not there at all with this one.

 

[pjam]

Do you Guys think you might have enjoyed it more without the Sci Fi elements? That was all Steven's idea btw...

 

[Gruson]

Do you Guys think you might have enjoyed it more without the Sci Fi elements? That was all Steven's idea btw...

I don't mind sci-fi, that's not the problem with it.

 

[uscmhicks]

lmao , c'mon guys Steven makes a hell of a lot of movies with aliens !!
I think it was inevitable. I actually didn't mind that. They were way to reliable on the cig aspects though , thats one thing that was a little annoying.
Shia swinging on the ropes sucked a little , TARZAN !! !.
It was a decent flick for me.
A fridge wouldn't save you from a nuke.

 

[Trevolver]

Gruson....you summed it up


Trev

 

[Dusty]

Okay, jumping in since more people have seen it and maybe I'm not insane after all ... The main problem with it was not the sci-fi aspect - I actually think that was pretty cool if it had been handled correctly. The problem is GIANT plotholes and a WAY too complicated plot / too many protagonists. What's up with movies these days thinking they have to overcomplicate everything and throw everything, including the kitchen sink, into the mix? (I'm not even getting into the forehead-smacking WTF?-ness of some of the silly CGI crap... Jeep-in-tree anyone?? I think Gruson covered those It was like a cartoon, or a video game.)

The ONLY part I enjoyed with child-like abandon was the motorcycle chase - that was as close to classic Indy that it ever came. I enjoyed the jungle chase for the first 5 minutes - then when Shia got repeatedly smacked in the nuts for a cheap laugh (I think once is probably enough), I checked out for the remaining bit... the monkeys and ants made it worse, and just when I thought it couldn't POSSIBLY get worse, came the Jeep-in-tree bit (Tom, I thought you were KIDDING about the junk-smacking, just to bag on Shia!!)

Anyway, Shia aka 'Mutt' (so cute - he's named after the dog - sigh) summed it up for me at the end... "I don't understand"... why this movie was made. I thought the wedding scene was like a dream or something, it was so fake and stilted. Had to go immediately watch Raiders after I got out of the theater to wash the taste away.

Simply - without the Indy name attached and the nostalgia involved, this movie would be getting panned unanimously for how stilted, unnatural, and ridiculous (yes, I know the other Indy's are pretty ridiculous - but this takes it to new levels that I never wanted to see in an Indy movie) it is. What happened to the natural lighting, on-location filming, and gritty realism from the first three? Not to mention the cleverness. It felt like they were all simply 'acting' in this one... just hitting marks, no true charisma coming out, except for a couple of moments here and there. There was no real heart and definitely no heart-in-mouth, 'how's-he-gonna-get-out-of-this-one' moments that define the first three. (and yes, I totally understand that Indy has aged and lost loved ones - but still)

I honestly enjoyed the National Treasure and Mummy films more than this 'Indiana Jones' spoof (seriously, parts are more like a National Lampoon parody of an Indy film), and sadly will never be seeing it again, nor buying the DVD. And you know me, I LOVE silly popcorn films like Transformers and POTC2. This is neither one of those films NOR an Indy adventure film, IMO. So sad

(sorry, didn't mean to sound so hateful, it just all came pouring out, once I opened the floodgates!! )

And if you haven't seen it, by all means go to the theater and view it for yourself. That's why I didn't post a review early. I don't want to dissuade anyone from seeing it and judging for yourself!

 

[OSCORP]

WOW!

Sounds like a rental after all.

 

[icruise]

I enjoyed it, but it wasn't exactly the second coming that some people had been hoping for. I agree with most of what people have been saying although maybe not with the same degree of anger that I'm sensing. I might get some flack for this, but it actually makes the Phantom Menace look a lot more impressive by comparison. Just about every aspect of TPM worked better than Crystal Skull.

I thought the banter between Indy and Irina Spalko at the beginning, and Marion later on seemed forced and awkward. Karen Allen seemed a little rusty or something. I like Shia and think he did a good job with Mutt, but somehow the character didn't seem very well developed.

I didn't really get the sense of wonder that I felt in the other films. I'm not sure what it was. I was hoping that it wasn't really going to be aliens at the end but of course that didn't pan out. Overall, easily the worst of the series, but still a good time. Call me sentimental, but I liked the fact that Marion and Indy got together at the end. All in all, it was a fun movie but maybe not quite up to Indy standards. I'm going to see it again in a couple of days, so we'll see how it holds up a second time through.

On the bright side, it really makes you appreciate how great the first three movies were.

 

[photoshopmagician]

On the bright side, it really makes you appreciate how great the first three movies were.

Hopefully now people will give TOD the respect it deserves!

TOD was my favorite Indy film of the now 4!!!!!!!

 

[pjam]

Wow Dusty, your best review yet. I'm not joking.

This was a desperate attempt to do one thing -- not tell an intriguing story, not endear audiences to the characters, not recreate a Classic Indy film...

To make money. And we all know George would be just as happy with Porn Wars as Star Wars as he has said many times he would have become a Pornographer just as easily. Thank God that never happened.

Unfortunately, from the start, THIS Indy never had a chance to do any of the essential things which make a Movie an enduring Classic tale because the three principals involved couldn't agree on anything, except that they wanted to make money the way each of them envisoned... so there was never a cohesive Creative vision of it.

What you have is three guys who want to make one movie three different ways and that was the problem. It was a Committee project. I really wish they had simply hired a gun to write a great script the way that Writer envisioned a great Indy film. Such as Larry Kasdan did with Raiders and ESB. It was an impossible assignment for any Writer, this is why you got an incoherent patchwork of scenes pasted together with elements sprinkled in -- in a desperate attempt to make it look like a great movie. I know personally from others involved in the Development process that it was an impossible task. They hardly collaborated on this thing, just met with the Writer individually, gave him their notes (which were all different) and this went on and on.

Even the Crystal Skull mythology has been debunked by the Smithsonian. The clear polished skulls were made with modern machine tools.

It didn't stand a chance to be a great Movie. But it seemed it did entertain a lot of you, so it wasn't all for nought.

It did become a Studio theme park ride and I'm afraid that's all it is.

A theme park ride.

 

[Entropy]

-swinging monkeys

-Shai getting racked 10 times in a row

-Brody’s smiling head falling off

-jumping martial arts guys, trying to be scary


Oh man...what a disaster.

The Indy "magic" was not there at all with this one.

I seem to forget the crazy kung fu skeleton warriors. They were such a joke. And the stupid head falling off the statue. Shai getting racked endlessly and the insane monkey Tarzan stuff overshadows that goofiness with even lamer gags.

 

[Trevolver]

Yep, that sums it up very nicely too, Dusty. I agree with you completely, as much as the Indy fan in me wishes I loved it. I always felt like a fly on the set, never as though I was submersed in an adventure.

Temple of Doom aint lookin' so bad now, is it folks? ha! okay, I just realized the value of this film...it'll show people that Temple is a great adventure. well, that, and KOTCS gave us a ton of cool merchandise

Trev

 

[photoshopmagician]

well, that, and KOTCS gave us a ton of cool merchandise

Trev

You can say that again! :chew:chew

 

[Dusty]

Yep, that sums it up very nicely too, Dusty. I agree with you completely, as much as the Indy fan in me wishes I loved it. I always felt like a fly on the set, never as though I was submersed in an adventure.

Temple of Doom aint lookin' so bad now, is it folks? ha! okay, I just realized the value of this film...it'll show people that Temple is a great adventure. well, that, and KOTCS gave us a ton of cool merchandise

Trev

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Temple of Doom. It is a close second to Raiders for me. Just can't beat the pure fun and adventure in that one - made me want to be an archaeologist (and yes, I really do have my degree in archaeological studies )

 

[Blackhole]

I don't see what all the fuss is about...

Sure, it was no Raiders, but Raiders will never be beaten...

I liked it, but it's out there by itself, it's just different, not bad different...

It's like TPM compared with ANH...like it was ever going to beat ANH...yet people complained...

And at least there was no Jar Jar...

Sucks about Henry Sr though...