Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Michael Crawford]

Yes, it's pointless. When Mutt says "I don't understand", there's a very good reason for that - it doesn't actually make any sense.

Yea, the aliens need the skull so they can do their funky portal thing and take off again. Why couldn't the other aliens that had 'crashed' find them it and the city? Who knows. Why were they here in the first place? To teach complex things like...uh...irrigation. Why did they fry Kate at the end? Because that's what happens to every Indy villain when they get what they want at the end of the movie.

They never explained what the 'power' was that you'd gain control over, and in fact, it appears there was none. Their 'gold' was their knowledge, although that seemed to be tough for them to share. Indy does the whole 'stare into it's eyes thing' and yet doesn't know how to find the city or how to get into the temple once he does without Ox's help, and it appears as though Ox figured it out all on his own without the skulls help. Seems like that might be worthwhile information for the skull to give them.

The odd thing is they followed the old formula but it didn't work this time because of their choice of artifact. The old formula is simple - everyone wants something (the Ark, the stones, the Grail) that has tremendous power, and when they get it, they get exactly what they deserve. This worked with the previous three artifacts because they were 'mystical' in nature, thus requiring no explanation for the source of their power or the outcome.

This time they went with the crystal skull, but by bringing in a largely 'alien' artifact, they set up a more scientific situation. The problem is, they tried to handle it like a religious artifact, where no explanation is needed for the power, the reasoning behind it, or the outcome. And when folks are confronted with something that appears more scientific, they expect more.

 

[icruise]

I agree with that Nash. The Russians won, but got zapped. It didn't matter if Indy succeeded or not. Which made the film pointless.

I don't want to keep harping on this, but as I said before this is pretty much exactly the same thing that happened in Raiders and Last Crusade. In both movies, the treasure ended up in the enemy's hands, but it turned out not to be what they thought it would be. The ark killed the Nazis when they tried to use it and the Grail couldn't be taken from the temple. (I can't recall if a similar parallel can be drawn with TOD.)

In any case, you still had Indy reuniting with Marion and meeting his son, so I don't think it makes the film pointless.

 

[Michael Crawford]

The film isn't pointless - the quest is. But pointless is probably the wrong word. The plot makes little sense, and has little explanation.

Like I said, that works better when you're dealing with a mystical artifact. This wasn't mystical in nature - an alternate dimension is quite scientific in basis.

 

[nash]

Plus, in this movie, he says that the skull told him to return it, so there is a mythical force driving him to do it. Not to mention that (as probably everyone guessed who watched the movie) returing the skull would help Oxley return to normal.

That makes sense, I think I agree with your POV given the circumstances.

 

[Darth Caedus]

I didn't hate it personally. I thought it was just ok. I actually thought The Mummy was better than this film. I think that many other films were better. It was just ok for me. Nothing special and I am bummed.

You know, in the car on the way home. I told my buddys: This film wasn't an Indy film, it was a crappier version of a Mummy movie.
Great minds eh??????

 

[pjam]

Huh? I just got done reading a magazine article on IJ, and they were talking about Roswell and stuff and it mentions that Steven was the one really pushing for the sci-fi/aliens bit (i'll have to go back and re-read it)

This is true.

It was Steven who wanted more of a Sci Fi Angle from the beginning. And it was Steven who gave the First Writer notes to play this up because he felt it was evocative of the times. George and Harrison actually wanted a more traditional Indy at first. I know this for a fact. First hand.

I have said this over and over.

 

[Darth Caedus]

This is true. It was Steven who wanted more of a Sci Fi Angle. And it was Steven who gave the First Writers these notes to play this up because he felt it was evocative of the times.

I have said this over and over. George and Harrison actually wanted a more traditional Indy. Steven wanted spaceships.

Well, I can't believe I'm about to say this. But I wished Spielberg would have listened to Lucas. But if you think about it, what other HUGE mcguffin religious artifact could they use? Already used the good ones (ark/grail) what else is there? Is it me, or with using technology more and more, that Spielberg's films are getting crappier and crappier?

 

[anti-hero]

While I did really like it, I will say the story was a bit too predictable. You knew she'd get the "ultimate knowledge" and that it'd kill her or whatever. Plus, I remember an episode of Ducktales with the lost golden city, that ended almost the same way. Don't think there were aliens, but I remember the city was swallowed up at the end of the episode.

 

[anti-hero]

Well, I can't believe I'm about to say this. But I wished Spielberg would have listened to Lucas. But if you think about it, what other HUGE mcguffin religious artifact could they use? Already used the good ones (ark/grail) what else is there?

That's exactly why I'm glad they went with aliens. If they'd done another religious artifact it would feel too close the previous movies. i like that they went another direction.

 

[Jesseawilson]

This is true. It was Steven who wanted more of a Sci Fi Angle. And it was Steven who gave the First Writers these notes to play this up because he felt it was evocative of the times.

I have said this over and over. George and Harrison actually wanted a more traditional Indy. Steven wanted spaceships.

There seems to be a serious difference of opinion with peoples sources. The complete opposite position is being stated from multiple people. Someone has to be able to quote some sources so the correct version of the source of the aliens can be determined.

 

[pjam]

There seems to be a serious difference of opinion with peoples sources. The complete opposite position is being stated from multiple people. Someone has to be able to quote some sources so the correct version of the source of the aliens can be determined.

I don't need to quote any magazines or outside opinions because my source worked directly with them. You can believe anything else you want. It is a fact.

For goddsakes Steven made "Firelight" (about UFOs) when he was 16.

Who do you think wanted spaceships?

 

[OSCORP]

Huh? I just got done reading a magazine article on IJ, and they were talking about Roswell and stuff and it mentions that Steven was the one really pushing for the sci-fi/aliens bit (i'll have to go back and re-read it)

This is true.

It was Steven who wanted more of a Sci Fi Angle from the beginning. And it was Steven who gave the First Writer notes to play this up because he felt it was evocative of the times. George and Harrison actually wanted a more traditional Indy at first. I know this for a fact. First hand.

I have said this over and over.

So i didn't misread it like i was told i did?

 

[anti-hero]

I remember reading on wiki (and if you can't trust them, who can you trust) that Spielberg was against the idea of the crystal skulls...but I don't remember them saying he was against aliens. For what it's worth they also detailed some of the Saucermen from Mars script which apparently had a rocket sled, surviving an atomic bomb explosion by hiding in a fridge, and him being a former Col. in the OSS. They've had that listed for months now. Don't know if that adds any validity or not since it is still wiki.

 

[Jesseawilson]

I don't need to quote any magazines or outside opinions because my source worked directly with them. You can believe anything else you want. It is a fact.

Um yea, ok so it's like when your parents said "because I said so".

I get it.........

 

[pjam]

Um yea, ok so it's like when your parents said "because I said so".

I get it.........

No, you don't get it.

Like I said believe what you want. I was just trying to share some inside info with you guys. And that's all I'll say about it.

 

[Darth Caedus]

No, you don't get it.

Like I said believe what you want. I was just trying to share some inside info with you guys. And that's all I'll say about it.

Thanks Mr. Gump I don't know about everbody else, but I welcome all information.

 

[EVILFACE]

If there is a link on the interwebnets, it MUST be true!!!

I'll take PJams word for it.

 

[Les Walker]

CHILDREN!

Stop being so silly.
And besides, who cares! Anyone with half a brain tied behind their backs can know that both Lucas and Speilberg were gonna make a more 50's style movie, not so much an older 30's serial, but a 50's sci-fi hook type thing, long ago.

As to the argument about religious artifacts vs "science", well, I can only say this, and quote Arthur C. Clarke, "Any advanced technology, seen from a lesser developed perspective, is indistinguishable from magic". So there you are. Mutt didn't understand. So what. Niether did the others really. John Hurt was closest to a sage the movie had, to be there to "explain" enough so that when you walked out of the theatre, it felt all wrapped up. All that for a movie that had Nazca lines, Roswell, crystal skulls, ancient astronauts and Area 51 all in one story! It's a bit much actually. Poor Mutt!

To me, the biggest question in the whole thing, and now, for the entire series, is this, if this alien body, AND the Ark of the Covenant, were only two of the thingies in those boxes, what the hell else do they have in there? And they do need more than a couple of soldiers with rifles guarding the gates! If I were Indy, I'd be sneaking back in there in the next episode! Indiana Jones and the Secrets of Area 51!
I mean, why go all over then they are already all collected up!

Anyway, there will never be another Raiders. There just can't be. This was a good popcorn flick and that's about it. There should be an usher with a basket up front so you can leave your brain at the door.

And you guys are actually debating this stuff.

Oh well...that's what it's all about I guess. Have fun. Somebody has to do it.

 

[pjam]

If there is a link on the interwebnets, it MUST be true!!!

I'll take PJams word for it.

Thanks Bro. I have relationships I need to protect so there's only so much I can say. Just tryin' to set the record straight. Those who know me and what I do know this.

 

[Indiana Fett]

I think Mike French's review on theraider.net sums it up nicely...I agree with most of what he's saying, especially this section comparing ALL the sequels to Raiders:

Most die-hard fans like myself were hoping for another Raiders of the Lost Ark, but this new film has brought me to the realization that Raiders of the Lost Ark is really the black sheep of the series, whereas all three of its sequels reinvented the character in a new direction that focused more on humor and comic book or pulp style action instead of Raiders' gritty realism and dramatic tension. Now, we truly have an “Indiana Jones Trilogy” that just happens to come after a movie called Raiders of the Lost Ark.

https://www.theraider.net/news/fullstory_indy4.php?id=822