Indy 12'' line on ''pause.'' OR The Future of the Sideshow 12" INDY Line

[Entropy]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

Playing devil's advocate, I don't really see the point in whether we are told a line has ended or getting ready to end or whatever.

I think a lot of people had expectations with a line that we'll see every character made and I generally shy away from those expectations. It's nice to know that no more will be made and alleviates questions and speculation but saying the line is dead or will be dead doesn't change what I'll purchase. It's not like I would pass on Gandalf or Toht just because we aren't getting a Gimli or Marion. But some may think or purchase that way so I don't see how it's fiscally in a company's interest to announce the demise of a line, esp while product is still coming out.

 

[fronkenstein]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

Playing devil's advocate, It's nice to know that no more will be made and alleviates questions and speculation

Point taken and I agree that it is their perogative and would not change my decision to buy. But my point is simply that we actually still don't know if the line is dead or not, based on a vague answer. And when something is important to you, you at the least would like a straight answer.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

Point taken and I agree that it is their perogative and would not change my decision to buy. But my point is simply that we actually still don't know if the line is dead or not, based on a vague answer. And when something is important to you, you at the least would like a straight answer.

I agree. They're still stringing us along. If we didn't know any better (i.e. know how the demise of the LOTR line came about), then we would probably still hold out hope. I'm personally thinking this is definitely the end, and as such will probably allocate the Indy funds to perhaps the Joe line, or that great DAK figure, etc. But for someone who's still hoping, it's not fair that they may pass on some other pieces, thinking that they may need the money later for a Mola Ram that will never be made.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

I hear you. All companies play the game, but the more honest they are, the more I want to buy from them.

If you read their vague responses to questions, you see that Sideshow generally deflects the questions and gives a political, kiss the baby kind of answer. Just plain inconsiderate. I will still buy from them but I'm definitely scaling back.

WTF are you talking about?! Sideshow blames us. They've always blamed us and here, are continuing to do so. It's our fault that just about every release in the 1:6 Indy license is rotting on their website. It's our fault for not accepting the WIP Pro on Indy, the failure that is the Belloq likeness, not accepting an Ark that pales in comparison to Hasbro's and not accepting an overpriced, bobbleheaded Indy in inaccurate German disguise.

 

[agent5]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

WTF are you talking about?! Sideshow blames us. They've always blamed us and here, are continuing to do so. It's our fault that just about every release in the 1:6 Indy license is rotting on their website. It's our fault for not accepting the WIP Pro on Indy, the failure that is the Belloq likeness, not accepting an Ark that pales in comparison to Hasbro's and not accepting an overpriced, bobbleheaded Indy in inaccurate German disguise.

Breath. Deep breaths.

Sadly, I agree with you. Although, Henry Sr. kicks all kinds of ass along with the Raiders PF. But as a total track record that's not all too impressive. Still, I find myself wanting more from Sideshow simply because no other company is doing anything Raiders related.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

i blame tiger woods.

 

[DinoLast]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

I see that the Standard Adventure Indy has finally sold out on Sideshows website.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

Breath. Deep breaths.

Sadly, I agree with you. Although, Henry Sr. kicks all kinds of ass along with the Raiders PF. But as a total track record that's not all too impressive. Still, I find myself wanting more from Sideshow simply because no other company is doing anything Raiders related.

I'm okay... found a stray cat to take it out on.

The most annoying thing is, I see what they're doing with SW, the Joes and Senior and thinking where the hell did Indy go wrong?

 

[aussieinnyc]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

I'm okay... found a stray cat to take it out on.

The most annoying thing is, I see what they're doing with SW, the Joes and Senior and thinking where the hell did Indy go wrong?

Easy answer - their focus was too much on developing the new body, and as a company they can't seem to achieve reliable, repeatable, high quality paint applications. This isn't just on 1/6 either, they have paint problems right across their product range.

As someone else mentioned, the recent SW and the GI Joe line are mostly masked characters, which really helps mitigate their human paint problems. Jones Snr. is just a positive example of SSC's lack of consistency.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

Easy answer - their focus was too much on developing the new body, and as a company they can't seem to achieve reliable, repeatable, high quality paint applications. This isn't just on 1/6 either, they have paint problems right across their product range.

As someone else mentioned, the recent SW and the GI Joe line are mostly masked characters, which really helps mitigate their human paint problems. Jones Snr. is just a positive example of SSC's lack of consistency.

No amount of paint could've helped Belloq, he looks like Ricardo Montalban (when I opened him up, I wanted to scream KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!). The ark was painted fine as well, it just wasn't the right finish. Also, when you look at German Indy, the paint apps are great, it's just a 1:5 scale noggin. With all the issues this line has had, it just seems like either they were too busy to devote the attention to Indy that he needed, or the Indy line (Trevor's sculpts and Senior aside) was given to the new kids to do while everyone else got to do SW and Joe.

 

[choopie]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

I think what bothers me most about this whole situation is that Sideshow is becoming more and more a company of contradictions. They verified a 1:1 bust at the announcement of the license and now that seems to be scratched. Dios weren't even in the license agreement to begin with and while I'm happy they have announced a dio line, it seems that they aren't in any hurry to release any new product. The dio line will die before it even gets started. And at one point, Sideshow even stated that they had no intentions of backing down from the Indy license, that they were committed to it. Now it seems the survival of the 1:6 line hangs in the balance of the sales of KOTCS Indy and how well the rest of the stuff they have collecting dust in their warehouse sells.

Sorry Sideshow, but how are collectors supposed to be excited about buying your product when you take a half-hearted approach to the license?

 

[aussieinnyc]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

They also are suffering from not changing their approach to sequencing their products. It used to be that a company would ensure the longevity of a line by putting "filler" characters in between some of the bigger heavy-hitters. It's the approach that they are still using with the SW line, but SW is a unique property that should not be used as a business model. There is now far too much product around, at considerable cost, and at very competitive quality, for a company like Sideshow to believe that they can rely on customer loyalty to a line. The two biggest nails in the Indy coffin were the two first figures: Indy was twice delayed and then had QC problems, and then with customer interest waning because of that, they followed it with a "filler" character like Belloq. If they had planned the first four figures as something like Indy, Senior, Mola Ram and Toht or Marion (imagining, for a moment, that the female SS body or joint-showing Mola Ram wouldn't be a problem) then I think they would have had much more success. Then, by all means, explore some of the Indy variants or lesser characters, but you have at least maximised sales by getting the most popular characters on the market, rather than trying to extend the life of a line by putting the filler in between them. I'll say it again, people now have so much choice, they won't sit through the filler to get to the good stuff any more.

It's not just SSC that do it. I don't collect them, but it seems that many of the action figure companies like Mattel and Hasbro take this approach as well, and while at a much lower price point they can somewhat support "filler" I think that somewhat ironically while attempting to prolong a line's longevity with "filler", their lines are actually being shortened as people tire of waiting. Other high-end collectible companies do it too - I actually bought a couple of the Master Replicas Muppet posers, and was really disappointed when they stopped the line at the prototype stage for Fozzie. So I was very excited when I heard eFx would be picking it up again, but their line up before Fozzie? Rizzo - arguably a "filler" type character (although definitely smaller so perhaps less risky from a unit cost perspective), Miss Piggy, a rehash of Kermit (more filler) and then Fozzie. I would almost bet money that the line will fold before they get to him.

Hot Toys, for all the criticism they shoulder for not going deeply into lines, seem to actually have the right idea when it comes to getting people buying their product. They don't waste their resources on second tier characters until they've proven to themselves that there is a lot of interest in a property by pushing out the main characters first. Sure, you might get a bit of whining on a message board about "too many Jokers, and no Commissioner Gordon", but they are ultimately satisfying the bulk of their customers by using their resources to deliver the main components of each line.

 

[doesitmatter]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

I'm okay... found a stray cat to take it out on.

The most annoying thing is, I see what they're doing with SW, the Joes and Senior and thinking where the hell did Indy go wrong?

You could say the same thing about Hasbro. Sadly, Indy doesn't have the fan base of those two licenses. Which is why we saw NO merchandise for twenty years.

 

[kl241]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

I think what bothers me most about this whole situation is that Sideshow is becoming more and more a company of contradictions. They verified a 1:1 bust at the announcement of the license and now that seems to be scratched. Dios weren't even in the license agreement to begin with and while I'm happy they have announced a dio line, it seems that they aren't in any hurry to release any new product. The dio line will die before it even gets started. And at one point, Sideshow even stated that they had no intentions of backing down from the Indy license, that they were committed to it. Now it seems the survival of the 1:6 line hangs in the balance of the sales of KOTCS Indy and how well the rest of the stuff they have collecting dust in their warehouse sells.

Sorry Sideshow, but how are collectors supposed to be excited about buying your product when you take a half-hearted approach to the license?

QFT. Believing anything that Sideshow says anymore is like believing anything George Lucas says. With Sideshow we should have always set our expectations low to begin with.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

You could say the same thing about Hasbro. Sadly, Indy doesn't have the fan base of those two licenses. Which is why we saw NO merchandise for twenty years.

I absolutely disagree. Indy does have a fan base, and a strong enough one to carry toys. But the only company who seems to have a ****ing clue of how to do it right is LEGO.

The problem with hasbro is that they barfed up too many Indy variants and the KOTCS crap at what seemed like a 10-1 ratio with anything that had any sense of playability. As far as Indy goes, TOD wasn't a fan favorite movie, but the toys have considerably more playability than TLC or KOTCS. Their 12" line, despite what people say, was excellent for the price point, but 100% ADD in character selection. It's like they put a monkey in front of a dartboard marked with characters and whichever character the monkey threw a dart at, they made. That line, particularly with the 1:6 relics included with the 3 3/4" line, should've lasted more than 5 ****ing figures.

 

[OCP]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

QFT. Believing anything that Sideshow says anymore is like believing anything George Lucas says. With Sideshow we should have always set our expectations low to begin with.

Times change. If all Indy figures had sold out, this probably wouldn't have happened. In this economy, it's no surprise Sideshow wants to invest in figures that will actually sell.

 

[kl241]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

Seeing as how the ENTIRE edition size for Adventure Indy has sold out including Henry Sr. and even the much criticized German Indy are sold out is a testament that there is a market and a demand that can be satisfied when edition sizes are set accordingly. Belloq and Ark Toht were obviously poor business decisions so it's no surprise they can't give those away. Better character choices, appropriate edition sizes, and better quality would have kept the momentum for this line going. Sideshow has to realize that it's a niche market that isn't going to be the bread winner of a Star Wars or G.I. Joe. They just can't seem to grasp that so when a line doesn't measure up to those sales figures they quickly abandon it like they have nearly every license they have ever produced: Bond, LOTR, Planet of the Apes, X-Files, Reservoir Dogs, Highlander, Buffy, etc. I'm not going to commit to any new licenses because Sideshow obviously cannot commit to anything they produce if it is not a Hasbro-proven success first.

 

[OCP]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

Better character choices, appropriate edition sizes, and better quality would have kept the momentum for this line going.

What other Indy characters are in demand enough to warrant mass production?

My guess is Sideshow isn't going to bother making any Indy 1/6 figures if edition sizes need to be low to sell them. Development costs money. Sideshow needs to sell a certain amount to make that back and then sell more to make a profit.

Part of the problem with quality is many collectors expect too much for the money.

 

[OCP]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

I'm not going to commit to any new licenses because Sideshow obviously cannot commit to anything they produce if it is not a Hasbro-proven success first.

This kind of attitude just encourages Sideshow to stick with these kind of decisions and not try anything risky.

 

[kl241]

Re: Indy 12'' line on ''pause.''

What other Indy characters are in demand enough to warrant mass production?

Well let's see...

Mola Ram, Temple Indy, Short Round, Marion, Sallah, Map Room Indy... that's an entire second series right there.

My guess is Sideshow isn't going to bother making any Indy 1/6 figures if edition sizes need to be low to sell them. Development costs money. Sideshow needs to sell a certain amount to make that back and then sell more to make a profit.

With prices of these figures upwards of $100 their profit margins are still wide enough between retail costs and production expenses. We are probably paying at least twice the cost per figure that it costs them to make, especially when they cut corners on quality like they have over and over again. The markup is considerable.

Part of the problem with quality is many collectors expect too much for the money.

For the prices that they are charging now the quality had better DAMN well meet collector expectations especially when they are being trumped by companies like Dragon and Hot Toys.

This kind of attitude just encourages Sideshow to stick with these kind of decisions and not try anything risky.

Which is why they play it safe and fall back on old reliable Star Wars time and again and why they put all of their efforts into producing more and more from them while ignoring everything else. Chrissakes give the dog a bone now and then. Don't starve it to death.