Sachiel
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Is Star Wars better off without George Lucas?
- Thread starter Prime Clone
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Honestly, I think we give GL too much credit for SW. what I mean is , while he had the vision to create the world, he is not a great filmmaker.
ANH was considered a hot mess until the editing room, where his wife at the time is widely considered to have saved it. Had they gone with the original script, it would have been a bloated boring mess.
ESB , as almost everyone would agree, was Kasdens and Kershners baby. As GL was too busy with personal drama to have alot to do with the actual production.
When he did return to filmaking ROTJ, we got more mess, saved by Kasden and Marquand.
Hell even his vision was pretty much choosing the ideas other artists came up with. Again , visionary, but not all that creative beyond the initial big ideas.
GL is a visionary, but left to his own devices he make terrible films, with wooden dialogue and awful direction and leadership for his actors.
He should always hire scriptwriters and directors whom are better than he is, and stick to the big picture.
I dont want this to seem as if thos diminishes his role as a storyteller, it just diminishes his role as a filmaker.
Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....
ANH was considered a hot mess until the editing room, where his wife at the time is widely considered to have saved it. Had they gone with the original script, it would have been a bloated boring mess.
ESB , as almost everyone would agree, was Kasdens and Kershners baby. As GL was too busy with personal drama to have alot to do with the actual production.
When he did return to filmaking ROTJ, we got more mess, saved by Kasden and Marquand.
Hell even his vision was pretty much choosing the ideas other artists came up with. Again , visionary, but not all that creative beyond the initial big ideas.
GL is a visionary, but left to his own devices he make terrible films, with wooden dialogue and awful direction and leadership for his actors.
He should always hire scriptwriters and directors whom are better than he is, and stick to the big picture.
I dont want this to seem as if thos diminishes his role as a storyteller, it just diminishes his role as a filmaker.
Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....
DarkChocobi
Lucas simp
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Noboday cares your nonsesical diatrible against George along with that usual trash "how bad he was as the film-maker" 
. Obviously you're not the one who created SW universe - childhood to hundred millions of people, and a tremendous source of inspiration to many other ones folloing this cinematography in the first place. Not even take into consideration of the techonlogies used in Prequel films as the springboard for current advancement in motion picture and gaming industry as a whole. Gosh, go watch more Sequel garbages rather than pretending you're intellectual.
. Obviously you're not the one who created SW universe - childhood to hundred millions of people, and a tremendous source of inspiration to many other ones folloing this cinematography in the first place. Not even take into consideration of the techonlogies used in Prequel films as the springboard for current advancement in motion picture and gaming industry as a whole. Gosh, go watch more Sequel garbages rather than pretending you're intellectual.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Ok here?s my question GL was worth a lot more than what it costs to make even an expensive movie if he wanted to use his treatments so bad why didn?t he just finance the new trilogy hire new director and made it himself without running to Disney.
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Maybe he just didn't trust his own instincts (even the guy he hired to help him write AOTC sucked.) But that's a question I've wondered myself and I'm sure he's kicking himself now. Finish the damn Saga (that you said was 100% over in 2005, lol) *then* sell it to Disney to make stand-alones and trilogies from other eras (KOR, Legacy, etc.)
As annoyed as I am that Iger and KK discarded George's ST entirely if given the choice between 100% George vs. 100% Disney (when in reality a combination would have been best) then I'll choose the lesser evil of 100% Disney. George would have *never* delivered a RO after the PT. There's just no way. And he had his concept artists ignore Han's original backstory and make him a feral kid on Kashyyyk. Screw that. It would have been AOTC Boba Fett all over again. So thank God they let Kasdan officially canonize Han's true background. I don't like how Disney has handled the original OT heroes in the ST but at least I can compartmentalize away everything post-ROTJ easily enough.
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George can just do what we've been doing all these years and say ''not in my canon''.
Yep.
"Hey George, welcome to my world since Alien 3 and Terminator 3." --James Cameron
lol
"Hey George, welcome to my world since Alien 3 and Terminator 3." --James Cameron
lol
If Dark Fate turns out ***t Cameron loses the right to not like Alien 3. And maybe any of the other Terminator sequels for that matter.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Dude at the Disney store yesterday they got that 12 inch Boba Fett where you push the chest button and he says his lines and I have to tell you when I pushed the button and his AOTC voice came out I wanted to fling that thing across the room lol
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Very true.
Because even though I've always been bummed that Hicks and Newt didn't continue I've never once watched Alien 3 and thought that:
1. It was a poorly made film (I find it to be quite good in fact)
2. Ripley wasn't Ripley
But if DF gives us a Cameron/Hamilton Sarah Connor that isn't as true to the character as the Emilia Clarke Genisys version? Yeah you'll need to forever end the bitching and moaning Jim, lol.
And if George had made a Han Solo prequel you'd walk into a Disney store and pick up a Han figure that says "I can swing on a vine!" in Shia Lebouf's voice, lol.
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I thought some good points were made. Your post comes off as more nonsensical.
xipotec actually gave Lucas credit for this.
Making a lot of assumptions there.
One can learn as much from our heroes' pitfalls as their successes. Acknowledging this doesn't have to diminish their achievements. If refusing to worship an artist's every move makes xipotec an intellectual wannabe, what are you in this scenario?
He did talk up Genisys when it came out, though. Don't think he produced, but he certainly shilled it.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Great post Blade.
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ajp4mgs
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The reason Lucas decided to write a treatment for a sequel trilogy is . . . so that he could get more money in selling the franchise. His own words from the past, and when he started negotiating the sale, should make this a pretty indisputable reality for anyone who looks at it objectively.
The ideas he first had back in the early 80's for episodes 7-9 were ditched because he got fed up and decided to end it all with ROTJ instead. That's why he turned Leia into Luke's sister, and sped up other narratives. Then he spent years after the PT making it *very clear* that there was no story left to tell in the Skywalker Saga. Done. Complete. No sequel trilogy plans whatsoever!!
You don't go from emphatically stating several times (over the course of several years!) that "there's no story left to tell after ROTJ" to then saying something like "a sequel trilogy that I always intended in order to complete the whole story." That's just not credible. It's laughable.
By all accounts known so far, plenty of story beats from his treatment were used for the ST anyway, but with some notable changes. All the stuff about the "Whills" and microbiotic universe seems to have been cut entirely (no doubt because of how the concept of midichlorians came across in TPM). For anyone interested in what we know about GL's sequel treatment, and what carried over into the ST, the link below is a great summary.
https://medium.com/@Oozer3993/george-lucas-episode-vii-c272563cc3ba
Awesome link ajp, thanks for posting that.
That makes Disney's take on the ST (as far as it deviating from George's "vision") a lot easier to take. It's not like George stuck to his own original vision when making say ROTJ.
As it stands the ST sounds closer to George's treatment than ANH was to this:
Some of those early Lucas approved ST concept paintings look like they're coming to be in the TROS trailers and this drawing of Sam and Kira looks like it could just as easily be concept art for young Han Solo and "Qi'ra."
So it's probably just going to come down to whether or not TROS is any good. If it's awesome I could see myself accepting the whole trilogy, warts and all, and if it sucks well, no harm no foul, lol.
That makes Disney's take on the ST (as far as it deviating from George's "vision") a lot easier to take. It's not like George stuck to his own original vision when making say ROTJ.
As it stands the ST sounds closer to George's treatment than ANH was to this:
Some of those early Lucas approved ST concept paintings look like they're coming to be in the TROS trailers and this drawing of Sam and Kira looks like it could just as easily be concept art for young Han Solo and "Qi'ra."
So it's probably just going to come down to whether or not TROS is any good. If it's awesome I could see myself accepting the whole trilogy, warts and all, and if it sucks well, no harm no foul, lol.
Yeah thank for that, maybe he was having a bad afternoon.
I do like the ST.....is it OT? Hell no. Is it PT thank god no.....
But if you have been a fan over the decades and watching the making of films and reading the books, you cannot help but notice that GL is highly dependent on collaboration with other great people . ANH was a collaboration, of some amazing talents. (Including GL)
I mean do you give GL the credit for the score? Or is that John Williams? How about the ships, creatures and other designs? Is that Mcquarrie? How about Han Solo? Is GL responsible for his popularity? Or is that Ford?
Particularly telling is the PT as watching the behind the scenes you can tell no one wanted to disagree with GL. Some of the designs he passed up were incredible....but he walked by them, and choose some other nonsense.
Credit where it is due for his vision, but overall the OT was a perfect synergy of collaborations of VERY talented people.
Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....
And remember, if George didn't sell SW to Disney then there would be no RO, no Solo, no hot Rey in white outfit, and THIS would be canon instead:
And that was going to be after George himself *de-canonized* THIS:
What the hell was he thinking, lol. And I never realized that when Ki Adi Mundi used the Force to grab his lightsaber and Grievous snatched it out of the air that that's basically what Thanos ended up doing to Stormbreaker in EG.
CW Grievous even refers to himself as being "inevitable" in that last shot, lol.
And that was going to be after George himself *de-canonized* THIS:
What the hell was he thinking, lol. And I never realized that when Ki Adi Mundi used the Force to grab his lightsaber and Grievous snatched it out of the air that that's basically what Thanos ended up doing to Stormbreaker in EG.
CW Grievous even refers to himself as being "inevitable" in that last shot, lol.
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These are pretty much my thoughts. Sometimes nostalgia should remain just that.
If I didn't already know your opinions on this, I would think that you were making an argument against Disney here!
Oh how I've missed your RO bashing, lol.
And *finally* Google pulled up jye's photo of you filling out your complaints with the theater manager on opening night.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Great post by Xipo as well as Khev and ajp.
Look no one here enjoys hating on GL and there is plenty of respect and appreciation that is sent his way but enough with acting as if Disney robbed GL or Disney is just 100% trash.
No one is perfect.
Yes Disney dropped the ball with the ST absolutely but so has GL plenty of times.
Those SE changes are freaking infuriating to say the least.
GL had multiple opportunities to make new movies with the OT cast and he didn?t.
No we got Jake Lloyd instead grrrr.
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Look no one here enjoys hating on GL and there is plenty of respect and appreciation that is sent his way but enough with acting as if Disney robbed GL or Disney is just 100% trash.
No one is perfect.
Yes Disney dropped the ball with the ST absolutely but so has GL plenty of times.
Those SE changes are freaking infuriating to say the least.
GL had multiple opportunities to make new movies with the OT cast and he didn?t.
No we got Jake Lloyd instead grrrr.
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