Is there ever a time when a minor deserves the death penalty?

[azurepred]

Why should voting, contract rights, sex, gun ownership rights, drinking, or a change in the age of majority be prerequisites for holding someone responsible for their own actions?

SnakeDoc

excellent question, a lot of adults cant even handle some of those so called "rights". I just dont buy that this kid doesnt understand what he did was wrong; if he was that mentally incapable to begin with, there would have been plenty of signs, but if his parents knew something about his mental health, then they are just as liable as he is. This kid hasnt even made a public apology to the victims or the family of the victims. Thats the first thing a person should do if they were really regretful of their actions.

Hes a monster, this doesnt happen everyday; its a rare situation and so the death penalty should be at least considered in a trial. Someone who understands law better than i do, how the hell could this kid could plead not guilty and think a trial might come out in his favor??

 

[SnakeDoctor]

I thought I was one of the only people who believe in the death penalty, but I do. I am sorry if that goes against others beliefs. But it's how I feel. He should face it, if one of them happens to die.

Nah ... there are lots of us around. Welcome to Texas -- where the women believe in the death penalty, and the men want to throw the switch themselves.

SnakeDoc

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

I'm normally not for the death penalty, let's face it, the intention that it's for - which is to deter future murder - just doesn't work.

To say that we don't know that for sure is also plain wrong, some form of capital punishment has been around as long as man had the conscience to feel that it is wrong to take another person's life and yet here we are still trying to decide if it works or not. Hate to break it to the ones who wanted public hangings and beheadings but that was common place once upon a time yet murders still occured, it's just the nature of the beast I guess.

All that said when you read that some 14 year old does the things that he just did, you think twice about capital punishment. If you take away the "deter crime" argument and just focus on the "eye for an eye" argument then I think it works out a little better for capital punishment. Obviously an eye for an eye is hypocritical at best but the world is not black and white so we just have to do the best we can.

A child that is going to grow up in the prison system is going to become a very hard man. Ultimately we have to ask ourselves to what purpose is there keeping a monster like that caged up? Obviously to be "fair" we can't just kill someone who didn't actually kill another person - if we started doing that then we fall pray to the powers that be eliminating the people that they see as "problems", truely a slippery slope.

I don't have the answers to this - nor would anyone else on this board - especially since it involves "children" but when I was 14 I would have never done that and I knew that doing something like that was way, way, way out of line. This "child" is not 5, he's 14 and unless there are mental problems then he damn well knew what was going on.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

I'm normally not for the death penalty, let's face it, the intention that it's for - which is to deter future murder - just doesn't work.

It is intended as a punishment, not as a deterrent ... that's why its called a "penalty". If it is built for deterrence, its a terrible sistem -- it would need to be swifter, more painful, and televised. A possible (increasingly impossible in many states) peaceful private painless death 30-years and 15 appeals from now isn't going to deter many people from anything.
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Personally, deterrence has never been a dealbreaker for me. I don't care if it deters the next guy -- I care that justice is done to this guy. If it deters as a side-effect, good ... if not, fine. Either way, justice was done. That's all that matters.

SnakeDoc

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

Well, I hear the deterance argument used all the time by pro-death penalty proponents, so it has to be factored in when the death penalty is being discussed. All that said is it still really justice for the criminal to have such a "nice" death while the crime they perpatrated wasn't so nice? If you ask me that's not justice so it still doesn't work for me.......sorry.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Well, I hear the deterance argument used all the time by pro-death penalty proponents, so it has to be factored in when the death penalty is being discussed. All that said is it still really justice for the criminal to have such a "nice" death while the crime they perpatrated wasn't so nice? If you ask me that's not justice so it still doesn't work for me.......sorry.

An agonizing death is Constitutionally out of the realm of possiblity ... so a peaceful death is the best available option under the circumstances. It is the closest to justice that we can get.

If they live in prison, they'll have more fulfillment in their cell than their dead victims were afforded. They'll have hope of an appeal, a technicality, parole, good behavior, a jailbreak, an in-prison education, family visitation, or even the minor conveniences of occasional television, recreation time, a library, etc., etc.

The death penalty ends that hope. That is justice.

SnakeDoc

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

Yeah I know that it can never be a true "eye for an eye" but honestly these guys still get off easy for what they have done. Death Penalty just doesn't work for me, what we should do is use them for testing. We are not learning S___ from animal testing because it's a different model, but people.......we'll finally get things right......

 

[pixletwin]

Screw punishment and deterrents... I just want people with such little regard for human life to stop breathing the oxygen. My concern is more environmental, you see.

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

You try it first, I'm right behind you.......

 

[The Ween]

So if he's old enough to know what he's doing when he stabs a girl 13 times, how is he not old enough to buy porn, get drunk, have consensual sex, etc., etc.?



Regardless of whether he'll ever be useful to anyone, he deserves punishment for his crime. I don't know that prison is the best place to execute that function, but a mental institution might be.

I don't see extermination as right because personally, I don't know that he is capable of fully understanding the nature of his actions.

What I was trying to point out that according to the laws, there are different things allowed at different ages. I've never understood how you can drive a car at 15 but you can't do a lot of other things. Driving a car is a big responsiblity.

Everyone just has to ask themselves how they would feel if these were your two little girls that this "child" did these things too. What would you want to happen to him?

As for Mike Vick that Moonie brought up. I don't wish death on the guy, but as so many men like him, he made out bigtime by breaking the law and came out of it smelling like a rose. He's a hero now. I bet he's glad it actually happened. As far as I'm concerned, he's still a worthless piece of ____.

And that's all I'm going to say about either subject.

 

[BadMoon]

Ween I seriously doubt that Vick after 18 months in a federal prison and literally millions and millions of dollars lost is glad he went through that.

 

[devilof76]

Ok, I'm done splitting hairs. For what he has done, he deserves life in prison. No parole. If either of the other kids die, light him up.

Why should voting, contract rights, sex, gun ownership rights, drinking, or a change in the age of majority be prerequisites for holding someone responsible for their own actions?

SnakeDoc

Because the age of majority establishes the age at which people are considered legally capable of being held responsible for their actions. If a 14 year old can be held responsible for rape, assault, and possibly murder, I don't see why he can't be responsible for the rest. And realistically, they are capable of it. The age of majority is social conditioning, and it accomplishes little else.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

I was no smarter than your average kid but by the age of 5 I knew the difference between right and wrong and that you will be punished for your actions if you're caught. I knew death was a perminant thing. You can't tell me by the time your a teenager you don't know the difference between life and death, right or wrong. Unless this kid is mentally retarded you can't tell me for a second he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. I for one would not loose a wink of sleep if they shoved him in the gas chamber right now.

 

[CelticPredator]

Actually, if your parents never taught you jack ____, and just molested and beat you since birth...I doubt you would know right from wrong.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

One of my best friends in jr high was was horribly abused by her mother when she was a child but she didn't go around killing people. Plenty of other people have had horrible childhoods but know the difference between right and wrong. Unless this kid was raised away from any form of human contact for years you can't say he didn't know right from wrong. Really though, the problem isn't that these kids don't know right from wrong, it's they just don't care because they don't think things through or the consequences and/or they think they're smart enough to get away with it.

 

[CelticPredator]

Yes I can. It happens. Some Kids who are mistreated by their parents, end up repeating what they see. So dont tell me it's not true, because it is.

 

[devilof76]

Right and wrong isn't obvious. Take a look at the elected officials in Washington. How did they get there? I'd say a majority of people don't understand right and wrong at all.

 

[Darth_Fatso]

And many people who are mistread by their parents don't repeat what what happend to them aswell.

 

[devilof76]

The problem is bigger than parents.

 

[azurepred]

Yeah I know that it can never be a true "eye for an eye" but honestly these guys still get off easy for what they have done. Death Penalty just doesn't work for me, what we should do is use them for testing. We are not learning S___ from animal testing because it's a different model, but people.......we'll finally get things right......

so the fact that almost every medication on the market or ever invented from testing on animals is considered not learning ____? Don't mean to get off subject, but every medication you take, was made possible with animal research. I have no problem if the govt wants to use monsters like this kid as human experiments though.

I also don't think everyone agrees with an eye for an eye in general; the details of the murder is what makes it different. Manslaughter and things along those lines are different. Thats why the death penalty should be taken on a case by case basis. There shouldn't be a clear cut crime that get you executed. Well thats how i feel it should be used, but it doesnt get used at all............

What I was trying to point out that according to the laws, there are different things allowed at different ages. I've never understood how you can drive a car at 15 but you can't do a lot of other things. Driving a car is a big responsiblity.

Everyone just has to ask themselves how they would feel if these were your two little girls that this "child" did these things too. What would you want to happen to him?

As for Mike Vick that Moonie brought up. I don't wish death on the guy, but as so many men like him, he made out bigtime by breaking the law and came out of it smelling like a rose. He's a hero now. I bet he's glad it actually happened. As far as I'm concerned, he's still a worthless piece of ____.

And that's all I'm going to say about either subject.

Vick payed his dues, he learned from his mistakes and i'm sure going from a comfortable life to prison is no picnic. I have no idea why ppl still bring that up. He has rose above it, some ppl would never have. He is still way in debt btw. As of now, he is a example of how the jail system can benefit a person. Jail will not do anything for this 14yr old kid.