Is there ever a time when a minor deserves the death penalty?

[Darth_Fatso]

Eh, I can't change your opinions and nor will I try to. We could argue all night but it would be pointless. Anywho I've given my opinions on the subject and this topic is depressing. But you are right devil it's not just parents, society plays a huge factor too.

 

[devilof76]

I have no problem if the govt wants to use monsters like this kid as human experiments though.

A Clockwork Orange?

 

[Cdiesel09]

Yeah he deserves to live out his life in prison. Little boy sounds a like a little Michael Myers in the Making. But atleast Michael Myers wouldnt hurt a baby.

 

[azurepred]

A Clockwork Orange?

thats nothing...........we should replace the extremely small % of research on non human primeapes, and use these *******s instead. Thats worse than Clockwork Orange

 

[Darth_Fatso]

What are you talking about? Myers was after his newborn great nephew (I think it was his son in the 666 version). I'm just messing with ya Cdiesl.

 

[devilof76]

thats nothing...........we should replace the extremely small % of research on non human primeapes, and use these *******s instead. Thats worse than Clockwork Orange

I know. And the goal in the book was rehabilitation, not research for the greater good.

But...you're aware that the Nazis (and many, many Europeans), saw the Jews as a human cancer too, right? While it's true that killers really are garbage, is that a precedent you want to establish? As it is now, there are a lot of people who think the Jews are still the greatest threat to mankind.

Just saying.

 

[azurepred]

yea but Nazis are Nazis..........and i dont know how many Jews were murdered off the top of my head, but as far as human experimenting, were talking a very very few amount of ppl.............the worst monsters on the planet. Of course this is all theoretical cause it would never happen cause if they found out they would be a experiment, they would just take their own life.

 

[devilof76]

6 million.

And before they started exterminating people, the Nazi party was considered one of the most moral political movements ever. They were extremely progressive, and had it not been for the death camps, they would probably he held up as a model liberal government. The German people were highly sympathetic to their goals, and so were a lot of other people (including Americans, British, and French).

The thing with theory is, someone will inevitably attempt to practice it. Germans wanted a strong, socialist nation, and it appeared to work. For a minute. Then, the reality of the theory came to light.

 

[azurepred]

its already been attempted, just not with criminals. Its very possible it has already been attempted in the U.S., we just never heard about it, you know how the govt roles. I dont believe it will ever happen in the U.S., but some countries already have very strict penalties for unlawful acts.

 

[devilof76]

...but some countries already have very strict penalties for unlawful acts.

The Constitution forbids "cruel and unusual punishment". Not that the Constitution gets much credit these days.

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

so the fact that almost every medication on the market or ever invented from testing on animals is considered not learning ____? Don't mean to get off subject, but every medication you take, was made possible with animal research. I have no problem if the govt wants to use monsters like this kid as human experiments though.
QUOTE]

This is not true, most major breakthroughs in medicine are with human volunteers. There are a lot of scientists that want you to think that animal testing works because that is how they make their living but ultimately the facts don't back it up. Sorry to go off topic but it does go back to my earlier point that if we tested on death row inmates that atleast we would get something out of it.

 

[devilof76]

Give them the option to volunteer if they want to contribute something before their time comes. If we were to use them like lab rats, against their will, I think that would be crossing the line into truly being no better than them.

 

[azurepred]

This is not true, most major breakthroughs in medicine are with human volunteers. There are a lot of scientists that want you to think that animal testing works because that is how they make their living but ultimately the facts don't back it up.

i dont think you really have a clue about the significance of animal research. I worked in the bio-tech industry for 3 years, you have no idea the impact of the animal model on research. its a topic for another thread, but you need to do a lot more research before you say something like that cause it couldnt be further from the truth. Human volunteers help..........help a lot, but they probably only accumulate for 1%< of research efforts. Even the people that protest animal research are completely clueless.

Quick ex: A advocate is yelling and screaming in a protest against animal research, he feels himself starting to loss his breath, so he wips out his inhaler and takes a couple good wiffs, then hes back at it, but guess what is responsible for the creation of that inhaler he just wiffed on? Without the animals that he is protesting against, he would be in a hospital bed or dead because he didnt have that inhaler. I'm done now, but its very important to me that people know animal research is EXTREMELY important to the discovery of new drugs, cancer research, etc, etc............even though i have no plans to go back into that line of work. It needs to be known

 

[SnakeDoctor]

I think we've actually found a punishment that I cannot favor ... and you're talking to a guy that is pro-waterboarding.

Experimenting on convicts is pretty much the definition of "cruel and unusual punishment". Its a little too close to Mengele for my tastes. By all means -- incarcerate uncomfortably and execute when the situation calls for it, but forced experimentation on inmates is just too much. You're treading a very fine line between doing justice for victims, and perpetrating injustice on behalf of victims.

SnakeDoc

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

Give them the option to volunteer if they want to contribute something before their time comes. If we were to use them like lab rats, against their will, I think that would be crossing the line into truly being no better than them.

yeah I know, it would never happen so I say it off the cuff.

i dont think you really have a clue about the significance of animal research. I worked in the bio-tech industry for 3 years, you have no idea the impact of the animal model on research. its a topic for another thread, but you need to do a lot more research before you say something like that cause it couldnt be further from the truth. Human volunteers help..........help a lot, but they probably only accumulate for 1%< of research efforts. Even the people that protest animal research are completely clueless.

Quick ex: A advocate is yelling and screaming in a protest against animal research, he feels himself starting to loss his breath, so he wips out his inhaler and takes a couple good wiffs, then hes back at it, but guess what is responsible for the creation of that inhaler he just wiffed on? Without the animals that he is protesting against, he would be in a hospital bed or dead because he didnt have that inhaler. I'm done now, but its very important to me that people know animal research is EXTREMELY important to the discovery of new drugs, cancer research, etc, etc............even though i have no plans to go back into that line of work. It needs to be known

I have done the research and there is a counter argumanet for everything that you have said so I guess it's two sides of the same coin.

I think we've actually found a punishment that I cannot favor ... and you're talking to a guy that is pro-waterboarding.

Experimenting on convicts is pretty much the definition of "cruel and unusual punishment". Its a little too close to Mengele for my tastes. By all means -- incarcerate uncomfortably and execute when the situation calls for it, but forced experimentation on inmates is just too much. You're treading a very fine line between doing justice for victims, and perpetrating injustice on behalf of victims.

SnakeDoc

Again said in jest but honestly someone who murders didn't care about cruel and unusual punishment on their victim so F'em. Again it'll never happen and what I say on this board isn't going to influence some politician to try and make it happen (although I would be really flattered to have that kind of power).

 

[jonny88]

I thought I was one of the only people who believe in the death penalty, but I do. I am sorry if that goes against others beliefs. But it's how I feel. He should face it, if one of them happens to die.

l agree. l believe in the death penalty as well. l actually think it should be used more often, sorry to say. l think rapists and people who commit murder in the first degree (planned murder) should be executed if found guilty. l sort of do believe in an eye for an eye. it will make people think twice about killing, maybe, l don't know what goes through their heads.

example. those 2 men who are in the news in the States who made that women go to the bank and get money while they held her family. then when she gave them the money they raped her and her 12 year old daughter, then strangled the mom, set the house on fire, and burned the other two daughters alive. they got the death penalty which they deserved. stupid thing is they will sit in prison for years and years before being put to death.

 

[hairlesswookiee]

they got the death penalty which they deserved. stupid thing is they will sit in prison for years and years before being put to death.

This is something that bothers me. If the judge is going to issue the death penalty, why procrastinate and waste money taking care of them? Just put them on the schedule the following week and get it over with.

 

[floppy hat jon]

This is not true, most major breakthroughs in medicine are with human volunteers. There are a lot of scientists that want you to think that animal testing works because that is how they make their living but ultimately the facts don't back it up. Sorry to go off topic but it does go back to my earlier point that if we tested on death row inmates that atleast we would get something out of it.

This is simply not true. Most compounds never make it out of "preclinical" (animal) testing and into human trials. It's not about whether or not human or animal testing works better; they simply have different purposes. Obviously no product is going to market without human testing, but to discount the animal testing is to not understand how medical research actually works.

 

[hoodonit00]

l agree. l believe in the death penalty as well. l actually think it should be used more often, sorry to say. l think rapists and people who commit murder in the first degree (planned murder) should be executed if found guilty. l sort of do believe in an eye for an eye. it will make people think twice about killing, maybe, l don't know what goes through their heads.

example. those 2 men who are in the news in the States who made that women go to the bank and get money while they held her family. then when she gave them the money they raped her and her 12 year old daughter, then strangled the mom, set the house on fire, and burned the other two daughters alive. they got the death penalty which they deserved. stupid thing is they will sit in prison for years and years before being put to death.

. For those who say the death penalty does nothing to deter crime. I believe, as was posted here, that it doesn't deter crime because it is not fast enough. When these 2 monsters that fear is talking about were found guilty, they should have been taken out that day and put to death. If there is irrefutable evidence that you are guilty of a crime like this one then there should be no appeal process. If this were to happen, I believe that you would see crimes like this plummet. We'll never know though because some people think monsters like this can be rehabilitated.

 

[fosing]

why not send these people to the front lines instead, operation human shield.