Is there such a thing as free will?

[DiFabio]

Because we create illusions to help us cope with our lack of choice. We're sad about it because we have feelings and are more sophisticated than other animals (except *******).

Anymore questions?

 

[Mr. Green]

checkin, checkin, someone lost their free will?

 

[devilof76]

Because we create illusions to help us cope with our lack of choice. We're sad about it because we have feelings and are more sophisticated than other animals (except *******).

Anymore questions?

How do we even know we could have choices if there's no such thing and all of our ideas come from our environment? How can we imagine if we're trapped in a matrix of pre-determined thought?

 

[DiFabio]

So, did you choose to forget your wallet or not bring it (because you "didn't need it") or was it predetermined from the start?

 

[Pork Chop Express]

Why would we be depressed if there's no other option? Other animals don't get depressed.

Not true. Go to your local animal shelter and take a look at the lost and unclaimed animal isle. Watch the first 30 min of the Blackfish doc that shows SeaWorld hunting and basically kidnapping Orca calves. I've worked around animals and they also exhibit frustration, anger and even contentment. Just like you.

 

[Mr. Green]

we humans think we're so special. sure we think/do more, but the reality is we're just another animal and share a lot of the same characteristic/behavior too.

 

[fosing]

more human than human

 

[AllisonAmy]

more human than human

That's hilarious.

 

[devilof76]

Not true. Go to your local animal shelter and take a look at the lost and unclaimed animal isle. Watch the first 30 min of the Blackfish doc that shows SeaWorld hunting and basically kidnapping Orca calves. I've worked around animals and they also exhibit frustration, anger and even contentment. Just like you.

Animals don't get depressed on account of not having free will.

I know, I sound just like the kind of person who would be oblivious to animals' feelings, don't I?

 

[devilof76]

So, did you choose to forget your wallet or not bring it (because you "didn't need it") or was it predetermined from the start?

Since the dawn of time, yes, I had no choice but to forget my wallet at that day and hour. So it was written, so it was done. The universe has a plan for us all, my child. It's plan for me was to make some ornery ***** even more miserable than she already was. Fate is cruel, and sometimes, funny.

 

[Pork Chop Express]

Animals don't get depressed on account of not having free will.

You know this definitively?

I know, I sound just like the kind of person who would be oblivious to animals' feelings, don't I?

I think you underestimate what's been here longer than we have.

That's because most philosophy is wrong.

How do you explain all the previous pages of your pontification.

 

[devilof76]

You know this definitively?

Yes, I know that animals don't get depressed because they don't have free will. Do you hear them whining about being dogs and cats the way humans whine about being human?

How do you explain all the previous pages of your pontification.

I explain it as philosophy that's right.

Do you know the difference between pontificating and presenting a rationally defensible position?

I think you underestimate what's been here longer than we have.

...I'm guessing not.

 

[Lejuan]

Yes, I know that animals don't get depressed because they don't have free will. Do you hear them whining about being dogs and cats the way humans whine about being human?

Am I a good tree frog? Am I making the right choices in my life? Am I fulfilling my potential?

 

[devilof76]

 

[DarkMagic]

devilof76, what's your opinion of the scientific method as a way of learning about reality?

 

[devilof76]

It is how humans learn about reality, and it's the only way.

 

[DarkMagic]

And then what about when the scientific method consistently yields results that run counter to what is immediately self-evident?

Basically, isn't it more likely that a process that strives to be unbiased, checkable, and testable by others will get closer to accurately describing a phonomenon in reality than a person's natural "gut" feeling of what is happening on based on what is self-evident to them...before they verify what they see/feel/believe with science?

 

[devilof76]

The scientific method does not yield results that contradict the foundations of the scientific method. Self-evidency is not a 'gut feeling'. It is the origin from which all other inquiry proceeds.

 

[DiFabio]

Since the dawn of time, yes, I had no choice but to forget my wallet at that day and hour. So it was written, so it was done. The universe has a plan for us all, my child. It's plan for me was to make some ornery ***** even more miserable than she already was. Fate is cruel, and sometimes, funny.

"Merry Christmas sir!"

 

[DarkMagic]

The scientific method does not yield results that contradict the foundations of the scientific method. Self-evidency is not a 'gut feeling'. It is the origin from which all other inquiry proceeds.

Experiments done using the scientific method have directly contradicted the notion that the conscious, self-aware, level of the mind is the part that actually makes decisions.

Without running these experiments to look a little deeper at things than as they first appear, of course it is self-evident to you (and to me) that *I* (the conscious, self-aware level *I*) am obviously consciously deciding to do everything I do that is not an automatic function of my body.