J.J. Abrams' Star Trek Into Darkness

[a-dev]

Boy I can't wait to hear from all the Star Wars critics in a few years!

Different writers. I have no issue with JJ himself.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

She didn't have anything to work with.

From what I've seen ... she has plenty to work with. Heh.

I think the whole Carol Marcus thing is much ado about nothing. She's not the same Carol Marcus that was in Wrath of Khan ... she's supposed to be about 20-years younger, less experienced, and not yet knocked-up.

For where they are in the timeline, I thought Carol Marcus was written fine. She'd still be in the "fresh out of school/ daughter of an Admiral" phase.

I think people are making a mistake comparing Into Darkness to Wrath of Khan (not that Abrams didn't ask for it with the reversed radiation thing and the KHAN! scream). But, still this is the first encounter with Khan ... not the second. This was "Space Seed", not Wrath of Khan.

SnakeDoc

 

[K07]

Boy I can't wait to hear from all the Star Wars critics in a few years!

That's not a reboot and there won't be recastings

That film will likely have its own set of issues. Rewriting characters and actors not portraying them as expected won't be one of them.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

That's not a reboot and there won't be recastings

That film will likely have its own set of issues. Rewriting characters and actors not portraying them as expected won't be one of them.

Star Wars fans themselves are a bigger problem than recasting.

SnakeDoc

 

[lerath666]

too true. I'm more fascinated in how they will or will not handle the likely steamrolling of 35 years of established continuity.

 

[lerath666]

From what I've seen ... she has plenty to work with. Heh.

I think the whole Carol Marcus thing is much ado about nothing. She's not the same Carol Marcus that was in Wrath of Khan ... she's supposed to be about 20-years younger, less experienced, and not yet knocked-up.

For where they are in the timeline, I thought Carol Marcus was written fine. She'd still be in the "fresh out of school/ daughter of an Admiral" phase.

I think people are making a mistake comparing Into Darkness to Wrath of Khan (not that Abrams didn't ask for it with the reversed radiation thing and the KHAN! scream). But, still this is the first encounter with Khan ... not the second. This was "Space Seed", not Wrath of Khan.

SnakeDoc

Well, it fails the Bechdel test, so there is present gender bias.
Even as fresh out of school, they could STILL have writte n her with more depth than she showed.

 

[K07]

Well, it fails the Bechdel test, so there is present gender bias.
Even as fresh out of school, they could STILL have writte n her with more depth than she showed.

Why? Poor Sulu and Chekov have done nothing in these movies so far worth getting excited about. Isn't it a bit sexist to complain the woman gets little character development when she's not even a member of the crew? She seemed to have a bigger importance than either of the aforementioned crew members. And Uhura has become a main character along with Kirk and Spock and thrown McCoy to the side. That's not the way the show was and it's one reason I'm not ga-ga over these movies.

Star Wars fans themselves are a bigger problem than recasting.

SnakeDoc

True. I have an open mind and despite being a big fan of the EU, I'm open to continuing the series through film even if it destroys the continuity I grew up following and loving as much as the movies. If the movies are fun, they're fun. If they're brilliant, they're brilliant. If they suck, they suck. We've already had a SW movie(s) that fit those adjectives already so nothing will shock me at this point.

 

[screamingmetal]

From what I've seen ... she has plenty to work with. Heh.

I think the whole Carol Marcus thing is much ado about nothing. She's not the same Carol Marcus that was in Wrath of Khan ... she's supposed to be about 20-years younger, less experienced, and not yet knocked-up.

For where they are in the timeline, I thought Carol Marcus was written fine. She'd still be in the "fresh out of school/ daughter of an Admiral" phase.

I think people are making a mistake comparing Into Darkness to Wrath of Khan (not that Abrams didn't ask for it with the reversed radiation thing and the KHAN! scream). But, still this is the first encounter with Khan ... not the second. This was "Space Seed", not Wrath of Khan.

SnakeDoc

STID takes place in 2259, that's a year or two before the estimated time in the prime universe when Kirk got Carol pregnant with David.
So the next JJ Trek needs to feature Kirk and Carol's relationship that would lead to the birth of David. It seems that the fate of all these characters meeting one another is predestined in the Abrams Universe.
So I think that's why Carol is here, to set up a more in depth relationship in the next movie.

 

[lerath666]

Why? Poor Sulu and Chekov have done nothing in these movies so far worth getting excited about. Isn't it a bit sexist to complain the woman gets little character development when she's not even a member of the crew? She seemed to have a bigger importance than either of the aforementioned crew members. And Uhura has become a main character along with Kirk and Spock and thrown McCoy to the side. That's not the way the show was and it's one reason I'm not ga-ga over these movies.

that's EXACTLY Why they need to be more than slightly two-dimensional. you could take the two of them completely out ofthe film, and replace them with nameless redshirts, and the film wouldn't suffer that much for it. That's kinda bad, and to me feels like lazy writing.

You mention Sulu and Checkov.

Sulu only gets one moment to TRUELY shine in this film, and he owns it.
That being, when He delivers his ultimatum to Khan. at that moment, we get a hint of forshadowing into the future or Sulu. and it works tremendously well to add a tiny bit of depth to Sulu.

Checkov gets put in charge of engineering for a little while... and more or less shows it's something he's not too terribly good at. As well as serving to highlight an appearent uncertinty that Checkov has about his own ability.

These moments with those characters stick in our heads from the movie, and show us some of the personality that these characters have. the things that stick in my mind about uhura? She complains.
The thing that sticks in my mind about Dr. Marcus? her getting slapped in the face and posing aquardly in her underwear.

Can you name a specific moment for either of them that REALLY sticks with you ?

 

[JAWS]

I think the whole Carol Marcus thing is much ado about nothing. She's not the same Carol Marcus that was in Wrath of Khan ... she's supposed to be about 20-years younger, less experienced, and not yet knocked-up.


SnakeDoc

She's also British now for some reason
Same with Khan. Which for some reason I could except more with Khan then. Probably because he was given more to work with.

 

[JAWS]

How come everyone praises Urban as Bones for being a great impersonator of Deforrest Kelley and yet Pine and Cumberbatch get off the hook despite probably being the least like their original counterparts of the entire cast.

I think Pine does Kirk great. He might not sound like Shatner but he embodies the Kirk presence. I think he does a great job and I totally buy him as a young Kirk. His Body movement are also often Kirk like.

I think he is a better Kirk then Quinto is a Spock. Sure he looks a little bit like a pudgy Leonard Nimoy, but he sounds and acts nothing like him. I know, I know, alternate Universe and such. But I am really starting to not like "ready for action" Spock very much.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

She's also British now for some reason
Same with Khan. Which for some reason I could except more with Khan then. Probably because he was given more to work with.

I don't really care about the accent. Maybe the Nero incident changed where Admiral Daddy was stationed while she grew up, so she went to school with Brits. Who knows? Who cares?

To be honest, inconsistencies are to be expected. Its just a reality of filmmaking across generations after a recast. Nitpicking nonsense like that isn't worth the time. The casting was fine. The accent, not all that relevant.

I think Pine does Kirk great. He might not sound like Shatner but he embodies the Kirk presence. I think he does a great job and I totally buy him as a young Kirk. His Body movement are also often Kirk like.

I think he is a better Kirk then Quinto is a Spock. Sure he looks a little bit like a pudgy Leonard Nimoy, but he sounds and acts nothing like him. I know, I know, alternate Universe and such. But I am really starting to not like "ready for action" Spock very much.

Pine's mannerisms are very much like Shatner's. There were a couple of times his posture and facial expression looked just like Shatner. But, if Pine imitated Shatner's peculiar manner of speaking, it'd sound like he was doing a caricature ... which would be terrible. I want a movie with Kirk ... not Chris Pine trying to do Kevin Pollack's Shatner impersonation.

SnakeDoc

 

[a-dev]

I think Pine does Kirk great. He might not sound like Shatner but he embodies the Kirk presence. I think he does a great job and I totally buy him as a young Kirk. His Body movement are also often Kirk like.

I think he is a better Kirk then Quinto is a Spock. Sure he looks a little bit like a pudgy Leonard Nimoy, but he sounds and acts nothing like him. I know, I know, alternate Universe and such. But I am really starting to not like "ready for action" Spock very much.

Well I was basing on the 2009 film what I said about Pine. The only time his voice and movement called to mind Shatner was at the very end of that film. Perhaps theres more Shatnerisms in this film.

I agree with you about Action-man Spock. I hope to see more of his intellectual prowess in future. When they let him do that I think he will very much be the young Nimoy.

Pine's mannerisms are very much like Shatner's. There were a couple of times his posture and facial expression looked just like Shatner. But, if Pine imitated Shatner's peculiar manner of speaking, it'd sound like he was doing a caricature ... which would be terrible. I want a movie with Kirk ... not Chris Pine trying to do Kevin Pollack's Shatner impersonation.

SnakeDoc

But Urban imitates Deforrest Kelley and no one has a problem with that. I certainly don't. People are just too used to the exaggerated impressions people do of Shatner. His way of speaking isn't really as wierd as those guys make people think.

 

[tomandshell]

I don't really care about the accent. Maybe the Nero incident changed where Admiral Daddy was stationed while she grew up, so she went to school with Brits. Who knows? Who cares?

Yes, Admiral Marcus was clearly deeply involved with Section 31, and the film shows that it was located in London. I assume he spent many years there along with his daughter.

 

[K07]

that's EXACTLY Why they need to be more than slightly two-dimensional. you could take the two of them completely out ofthe film, and replace them with nameless redshirts, and the film wouldn't suffer that much for it. That's kinda bad, and to me feels like lazy writing.

[...]

Can you name a specific moment for either of them that REALLY sticks with you ?

So we're in agreement. You keep attacking Carol Marcus but are in agreement with Chekov and Sulu and agree they could have just been red shirts and it wouldn't have mattered much. Yes, the examples you mentioned are "stand out" moments but Uhura risked her life to converse with the Klingons and beamed down to help Spock take down Khan at the end. Carol Marcus went against her father's wishes and stood up for what was right risking her life in the process. Those moments stood out to me more than either of the examples you gave for the men. But that just must be my opinion.

I don't mean to come in here and bash the film or anyone that loved it. I liked it. I'd give it a 6/10. It has given me interest in seeing sequels and made me very hopeful for Star Wars Episode VII.

 

[lerath666]

Well... Except for Sulu's Closet badassery, yes

It was one scene, with one line.
putting anyone else there... wouldn't have worked

 

[SnakeDoctor]

"Mr. Sulu ... remind me never to piss you off."

SnakeDoc

 

[Adolfo]

I was so glad that Sulu finally got to be captain of his own ship the USS Excelsior in STVI. He played it great

 

[Kuzeh]

Finally saw this one today...
I've never been a Trekkie... I've always been a Star Wars Fan... Just like J.J...
Now, the first Trek movie was a bit of a hit and miss for me, but Into Darkness, is definitely and amazing feat! Loved the story, the characters are more compelling, the effects are out of this world!! (No pun intended)
In any case, the action, the pace, dialogue and the story are simply put as perfect as a summer movie can get.

Cumberbatch did an amazing job, which adds a lot of layers to this movie. Pine and Quinto have an amazing chemistry, and I gotta say, this gives me high hopes for the upcoming Star Wars movies!

Loved it!


Since I've never been much of a Trek fan, I don't get the negativity... but as a movie, I think it's a great one... !

 

[Niltusk]

But Urban imitates Deforrest Kelley and no one has a problem with that. I certainly don't. People are just too used to the exaggerated impressions people do of Shatner. His way of speaking isn't really as wierd as those guys make people think.

Yes it is and it never gets better, watch some TJ Hooker, he gets to the point where he sounds like hes doing a funny job imitating himself at times. People may take it to another level, but theres reason for it.