J.J. Abrams' Star Trek (POTENTIAL SPOILERS)

[tomandshell]

I have decided that this movie creates a paradox. The new timeline changes EVERYTHING we knew, BUT everything we knew would still HAVE to happen or the new timeline would not exist.

If the new timeline was the only timeline and things didn't repeat then Romulan ship would never come back in time and destroy Vulcan since nothing will play out the same way.

So, IMO both timeliems still exist in alternate status. so everything we knew and loved would STILL have to be there and STILL would have to happen or the new timeline would never exist.

I hope that one of the Vulcan leaders brought aboard the Enterprise after being rescued from the planet's destruction is going to be able to perform the fal-tor-pan, because now they can no longer bring Spock back to Vulcan so the high priestess can restore his katra after he is resurrected on the Genesis planet following his death after Khan's triggering of the Genesis device (co-invented by Kirk's son, who might never be born if Kirk doesn't hook up with Carol Marcus in this alternate timeline). And if that doesn't happen, restoring the sanity of McCoy and Spock, the crew will be in no shape to return to 1986 to rescue the humpback whale, and the alien probe will destroy the Earth.

Of course, even if they manage to save the Earth, Vulcan no longer exists, and Spock won't be able to bring Nero there to help him plead his case before the council when the Hobus supernova threatens Romulus (assuming that Spock would even accept Nero's offer of help, since he killed his mother 130 years earlier). That means that without the possibility of a trip to Vulcan, future Nero will either remain behind on Romulus and die with his wife, or get her off the planet in time. Either way, he won't be seeking revenge on Spock and will never travel back in time on the Narada to destroy Vulcan.

 

[FQRizzo]

I hope that one of the Vulcan leaders brought aboard the Enterprise after being rescued from the planet's destruction is going to be able to perform the fal-tor-pan, because now they can no longer bring Spock back to Vulcan so the high priestess can restore his katra after he is resurrected on the Genesis planet following his death after Khan's triggering of the Genesis device (co-invented by Kirk's son, who might never be born if Kirk doesn't hook up with Carol Marcus in this alternate timeline). And if that doesn't happen, restoring the sanity of McCoy and Spock, the crew will be in no shape to return to 1986 to rescue the humpback whale, and the alien probe will destroy the Earth.

Of course, even if they manage to save the Earth, Vulcan no longer exists, and Spock won't be able to bring Nero there to help him plead his case before the council when the Hobus supernova threatens Romulus (assuming that Spock would even accept Nero's offer of help, since he killed his mother 130 years earlier). That means that without the possibility of a trip to Vulcan, future Nero will either remain behind on Romulus and die with his wife, or get her off the planet in time. Either way, he won't be seeking revenge on Spock and will never travel back in time on the Narada to destroy Vulcan.

Everything has been wiped clean. The history of Star Trek still exists, but they aren't hindered by it. The writers can move forward however they choose now and not worry about if it contradicts what Picard had for dinner on stardate 12345.6. It's win-win.

 

[tomandshell]

Everything has been wiped clean. The history of Star Trek still exists, but they aren't hindered by it. The writers can move forward however they choose now and not worry about if it contradicts what Picard had for dinner on stardate 12345.6. It's win-win.

Yes, I understand. I was just pointing out (in an exaggerated fashion) that the plot device allowing them to wipe the slate clean is now unlikely to ever occur. For example, are the writers now free to have Kirk and Spock fly to Romulus in the sequel and kill Nero's parents so that he will never be born? I think they have a certain amount of freedom, but not quite a clean slate if they want the events of the new movie to remain possible/plausible.

 

[Kabukiman]

The Shatner scene that never was: https://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1611116/story.jhtml

Personally, I'm glad the movie didn't end this way because I'd be bawling throughout the end.

Trek always tugs on me heartstrings.

 

[FQRizzo]

Yes, I understand. I was just pointing out (in an exaggerated fashion) that the plot device allowing them to wipe the slate clean is now unlikely to ever occur. For example, are the writers now free to have Kirk and Spock fly to Romulus in the sequel and kill Nero's parents so that he will never be born? I think they have a certain amount of freedom, but not quite a clean slate if they want the events of the new movie to remain possible/plausible.

This is an alternate universe that is completely separate from all other Trek. Whatever they do now will not effect their timeline's own past. (i.e. killing Nero's parents won't stop Nero from blowing up Vulcan).

Do I need to draw you a Doc Brown-esque chalkboard diagram?

 

[Kabukiman]

Yes, I understand. I was just pointing out (in an exaggerated fashion) that the plot device allowing them to wipe the slate clean is now unlikely to ever occur. For example, are the writers now free to have Kirk and Spock fly to Romulus in the sequel and kill Nero's parents so that he will never be born? I think they have a certain amount of freedom, but not quite a clean slate if they want the events of the new movie to remain possible/plausible.

Again, Many Worlds Quantum Mechanics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

 

[DarthNeil]

The Shatner scene that never was: https://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1611116/story.jhtml

Personally, I'm glad the movie didn't end this way because I'd be bawling throughout the end.

Trek always tugs on me heartstrings.

I think I would've liked that voice over... I hated how Kirk said goodbye in Generations. And you're right about the heartstrings-- the first ten minutes of this one got me when George Kirk sacrificed himself for his newborn son and the 799 others...

 

[MaulFan]

The Shatner scene that never was: https://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1611116/story.jhtml

Personally, I'm glad the movie didn't end this way because I'd be bawling throughout the end.

Trek always tugs on me heartstrings.

Wow, I got goosebumps just from the notion of that scene. I imagine the music and the tone of Shatner's delivery would have been really emotional.

 

[JGouse0498]

And you're right about the heartstrings-- the first ten minutes of this one got me when George Kirk sacrificed himself for his newborn son and the 799 others...

You got that right! I've seen it twice and both times nearly lost it. It was just so poignant and real. Absolutely amazing scene...and it was the pre-title sequence!!

 

[p!tu]

You got that right! I've seen it twice and both times nearly lost it. It was just so poignant and real. Absolutely amazing scene...and it was the pre-title sequence!!

i had a tear down my face!!!!! it was just to much!!! and the fact that the com link thing was still on when the baby was born!!! and he heard him cry!!! jesus!!! what an amazing intro!!

 

[Dally]

The Shatner scene that never was: https://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1611116/story.jhtml

Personally, I'm glad the movie didn't end this way because I'd be bawling throughout the end.

Trek always tugs on me heartstrings.

Wow that would have been a great scene! Shame it didn't work out.

 

[Reinhardt]

Would have lost it if they had that Kirk scene.

 

[a-dev]

Everything has been wiped clean. The history of Star Trek still exists, but they aren't hindered by it. The writers can move forward however they choose now and not worry about if it contradicts what Picard had for dinner on stardate 12345.6. It's win-win.

What about the 'time' police of the Deep Space Nine and Voyager era? Why is the slate necessarily wiped clean? What if someone, somewhere in the future was immune to the change in the past, was actually able to notice exactly in what way things were changed and went back in time to correct it? I'm pretty sure this has happened countless times in the Trek shows. Theres no reason that what happened in this film can't be undone and things put back the way they were. That they're not going to do so is only a matter of convenience in our real world so we'll be treated to some new takes on the whole Star Trek mythology.

 

[UTtoyfan]

You got that right! I've seen it twice and both times nearly lost it. It was just so poignant and real. Absolutely amazing scene...and it was the pre-title sequence!!

i had a tear down my face!!!!! it was just to much!!! and the fact that the com link thing was still on when the baby was born!!! and he heard him cry!!! jesus!!! what an amazing intro!!

I think I would've liked that voice over... I hated how Kirk said goodbye in Generations. And you're right about the heartstrings-- the first ten minutes of this one got me when George Kirk sacrificed himself for his newborn son and the 799 others...

I thought I was the only one that got emotional at the pre title scene. Glad to see I wasn't alone!

 

[Dr Daystrom]

I thought I was the only one that got emotional at the pre title scene. Glad to see I wasn't alone!

Got to me too. Well done scene (even for a movie packed with well done scenes)

 

[The Ween]

The Shatner scene that never was: https://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1611116/story.jhtml

Personally, I'm glad the movie didn't end this way because I'd be bawling throughout the end.

Trek always tugs on me heartstrings.

I think I would've liked it. Sure it would've been emotional, but I think it would've made a great ending.

 

[Wor-Gar]

"Boston Legal" Kirk just wouldn't work. Sorry.

 

[The Mike]

I love Denny Crane but the movie is perfect as is. Shatner's role in this new continuity should be none.

 

[Valfar]

I know Kirk is a hard fit for this movie but, something is telling me by fan reactions that its a fat guy thing..like because Shatner is fatter now means he does not fit in, where as Nimoy is still skinny and lanky so people just accept him as he still looks like his character from the past somewhat. I think its lame how people think like this sometimes to almost blow off a great actor we all loved in the past because of what he looks like for fricken a 78yr old man and still kicking it after going through hell after his wife died.

 

[tomandshell]

Do I need to draw you a Doc Brown-esque chalkboard diagram?

No, I have it on a shirt:

Unfortunately, Robert Zemeckis didn't pay enough attention to Doc Brown's chalkboard in BTTF II. Biff steals the almanac in 2015 and travels back to 1955 to give it to his younger self. At that point, the timeline branches off as he creates a new future where Biff is King of the World. (The 1985A which Marty visits and finds his father dead and his mother married to Biff.) After handing off the almanac and creating the new timeline, Old Biff gets back in the DeLorean and returns to 2015--but the film shows his return to the original 2015 where Marty is waiting, not the new 2015A in the alternate timeline he has created by his interference. He should have moved forward along the new timeline to a 2015A where Biff was King.