SideshowDusty said:
It's my lunch break, so I'm perusing the boards, and this news is very interesting, so thanks for pointing it out!
I am in no way a Christian (although I was raised Catholic - but I didn't pay much attention) - I'd probably call myself agnostic if asked - so excuse me if I'm being totally ignorant here, but what about this scenario:
Jesus is tortured and crucified. The Romans think he's dead, but he's not really, maybe in a state of shock to where his heart rate had slowed down incredibly. So they bury him in the tomb mentioned in the bible (Holy Sepulcher). A few days later, he wakes up from the shock, and his followers sneak him away and say he is risen - which, tecnnically, he is - it's a miracle! Then later, his body ACTUALLY dies, and his bones are interred in this other grave. That doesn't necessarily negate the belief that he has 'risen' and 'ascended' to heaven, as technically isn't it just the spirit/soul that ascends anyway? (I mean, I realize the bible says his *body* actually ascended, but honestly, even if I was a believer I wouldn't believe that, just think it's a good story.)
The only big problem I could see with the interference with *some* people's faith is if the 'Judah' that's buried there is really his son. If they can use DNA to prove that one of the Mary's in the tomb is the Jesus' mother, and the other Mary and the Jesus did produce the Judah, that's some pretty interesting info. But even then, if you REALLY believe that Jesus is the son of God, that shouldn't dissuade you... it just proves that mortal men like to make things up to get people to fall in line ("be like Jesus - don't give in to the sins of the body", we have to have something 'perfect' to aspire to, etc)... the Gospels, after all, were written in hindsight and by MEN who wanted to start a church based on this guy's teachings (a couple of whom were admittedly not even eyewitnesses, but were told what to write) - so they wanted to make him look as perfect as possible. If Jesus was a REAL man, while also being the son of God, it's only natural that he would want to have a family. I always thought that was a very weird part of Christianity - WHY would he NOT have a family?? To me, it would make him that much more of an interesting leader of men... and really, how cool would it be to be a descendent of Jesus, regardless of whether he is the son of God or not!
Anyway... I always find these things interesting. Basically, faith boils down to what you personally believe. Things like this documentary will raise doubts in those people who don't REALLY believe, but those who are strong in their faith will never give it up. Which is totally fine, as long as they don't try to make everyone else believe it too
Well, youd expect skeptics of Christianity to deny the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. What really blows my mind is that some of them also have the temerity (sorry Dusty:
)to deny that Jesus actually died on the cross. No death, therefore no resurrection.
The theory that Jesus did not actually die on the cross is commonly called the "Swoon theory". Of course this is the idea that Jesus passed out on the cross and was later revived. The chief evidence cited in support of this theory is the fact that the Gospels admit that Jesus was on the cross for only a relatively short period of time.
This argument attributes incompetence or even stupidity to quite a few people. The Romans, for example, failed to make sure that Jesus Christ actually died; the Romans and Jews both failed to discover the deception. And the disciples were stupid enough to believe that Jesus had raised Himself from the dead.
In addition, if this theory were true, it is rather unique and strange that the Gospel writers admit to the short period of time that Jesus hung on the cross because this was obviously an embarrassment to them. It is especially odd that Mark would draw attention to Pilates surprise at hearing that Jesus Christ was already dead (Mark 15:44).
Now, virtually all biblical scholars recognize the swoon theory argument is hopelessly flawed. What is surprising is that it keeps being brought up over and over again. Can you imagine that Jesus endured six trials, a crown of thorns, a Roman scourge, crucifixion, the spear in the side, loss of blood, 3 days without medical attention, and then overcame an armed guard, walked on pierced feet and he somehow or other convinced his frightened and in hiding disciples that he conquered death and the grave and that he was, in fact, the Prince of Life. That he then lived out his life in obscurity and died of natural causes?
If you can believe this, the resurrection should pose no problem for you whatsoever.
Jesus does have a family. Its all those millions who put there faith in him to be as he claimed: "The resurrection and the life." His mission on earth was to save those hopelessly trapped in the chains of death and sin. The only way to reconcile humanity to himself was for his Jesus to sacrifice himself. God, creator of the heavens and earth and all it contains needs no slight of hand or smoke and mirrors to resurrect his son. If Almighty God wants to use imperfect man by inspiration of his Holy Spirit to bring a book into existence that tells humanity how to be saved how can he be stopped or thwarted?
The Church/Christianity started when Jesus began his ministry and drew men to himself to proclaim the "Good News." While still on earth he was sending his apostles to neighboring towns to spread word. Again, why would anyone endeavor to write fiction just to prop someone up when Rome was actively executing and imprisoning Christians?
Why would Saul of Tarsis a devout Jew who thought he was doing the will of God by persecuting Christians, himself risk death by believing in Jesus and changing his name to Paul?
No one knowingly dies for a lie.
The only thing that could inspire these simple men to continue on and spread the word in the face of torture and death was an encounter with a risen Lord.
If a Christian cant trust the Bibles account of the resurrection what else cant be trusted? Surely not the Creation account. Noah and the flood? Foolishness! Parting the Red Sea? Laughable!
For the Christian it comes down to the understanding of the first lie that was perpetrated on humanity, related in Genesis 3:1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
Key words:
Did God really say...?
The enemy of faith has been using that and variations ever since.
Did God really say...
Did the Bible really mean...
Was Jesus really...
Yes friends, God really did say...
At the very least if one were truly were a seeker of truth what would it hurt to pray to God directly and ask him for insight?
Surely he would honor such an earnest petition.
you've already made your mind up about this sort of thing. Yes, there is debate about the authenticity of Josephus' writings on Jesus:
