James Cameron's AVATAR discussion thread

[agen_kolar]

TPM is pretty weak for FX. The battle shots in the dust cloud in AOTC owned anything in TPM.

ROTS had some great FX shots, including the opening battle when the ships peak and dive showing all the star destoyers.

Avatar blew ROTS, Transformers 2, Terminator Salvation and Star Trek away by far.

I disagree. Even if the battle shots in the dust cloud on Geonosis were great (I think they were mediocre,) they would be some of the better effects shots in AOTC. Whereas in TPM, the podracers, Coruscant, Naboo, etc all looked real. Of course there are weak FX, like the Gungans and their army. To me as a whole, though, TPM looks more like the original trilogy. It has a more grimey feel to it, and they used more model ships as opposed to CG ships. I like that. I can ususally pick out CG from a mile away. It's a bit distracting at times, and TPM has the fewest of those "ah, that's fake" moments for me.

In ROTS, the opening battle also took me out of the movie before it even got started. The ships looked completely CG to me, particularly during the lengthy opening shot with the Jedi Starfighters. Like AOTC, there were few environments that didn't scream "I'm CG!" to me. However, that's not to say I didn't enjoy the film. I like ROTS more than the other two prequels.

Avatar pretty much blew any prior CG out of the water. Gollum looked good for his time, but his eyes always bothered me. They sort of looked like rocks with a slight glaze on them, never like eyes. In Avatar, despite having alien eyes, they looked much more realistic in most shots. The skin and muscle FX also just don't compare to anything done before.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

Logan's initial spec script for THE LAST SAMURAI was written in 1989. That said, I never intimated that AVATAR's story was "stolen" from any of these mentioned works... just that it points out how derivative the basic story is and how many others have told almost the same exact thing, and recently.

And I'm aware of the comparisons to STAR WARS and how that was essentially the oldest most basic story ever told, just done in a new way. But what some people seem to overlook is that SW came out at a time when there was almost no spectacle in movies and nothing that truly transcended the medium to inspire young people. And you just can't say that about 2009/2010 and AVATAR. The analogy doesn't hold, because it's not a fresh, groundbreaking beacon that will change entire generations and usher in a new age of cinema. It's just another event film with amazing visual FX.


It makes perfect sense to me, and I agree.

And I reiterate that it's a solid film made by an obvious visionary, but that other than its technical conceit it's really nothing that unique or special at all. I'm not sure I'd even rank it in Cameron's 5 best films, actually.

Some folks, however, appear to see the hand of God in the movie or something. And that's fine. Just don't imply that those of us who do not see this film as a groundbreaking masterpiece don't "get it". That kind of tact is why some film snobbish circles have already coined the diehard AVATAR fanboys, "Avatards". I'd hate to see it degenerate into that here.

And yet... A.I. is an original and albeit religious experience?

 

[robomorph]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

I've just seen the film for a second time and I have to say that while I agree that the story is a bit uninspiring and derivative, the movie as a whole remains an incredibly visceral and immersive experience (especially when seen in 3D). It's hard to pin down exactly why the film works so well, but perhaps it's just one of those creative synergies where the end result is something a bit magical. The very fact that the movie has already drawn a legion of ardent admirers suggests that it has the qualities required to make it a future classic, and its technological innovations are now filtering down to other 2010 productions, so I think actually it is ushering in a new era of cinema. Perhaps its narrative weaknesses will prevent it ever being regarded as a masterpiece, but as a work of visual imagination and bravura technical craftsmanship it's surely already a landmark movie?

 

[IrishJedi]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

And yet... A.I. is an original and albeit religious experience?

Nice try. But I never said A.I. was a "religious experience". I simply pointed out that it has an unmistakably religious and theological theme that forces you to think and analyze it in order to "get it". It's a movie that's conceit and story/plot are unapologetically secondary to its message.

AVATAR is also a movie that is about something more than its plot with a theme and message. But where it differs is that it wears its technical conceit on its sleeve... and its theme is something a 12 year old could easily decipher. Which is perfectly fine. I just happen to believe that prevents it from being a true work of "genius".

 

[LChinoz]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

Avatar is a true work of genius

 

[Khev]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

It's hard to pin down exactly why the film works so well, but perhaps it's just one of those creative synergies where the end result is something a bit magical.

Yep. Its got that "magic." Cameron presented a movie with characters, both real and digital, that you care about, and a universe that is fascinating for many in a way not seen since Star Wars. Many people here have admitted as much, as well as such A-list giants as Steven Spielberg and most famously Jon Favreau.

Even without the CG and the 3D I'm still shocked that I saw a movie with a packed house that featured two cat people making out and then having sex and not one person uttered so much as a snicker. How the heck do you pull that off? People were just engrossed in the story.

Complicated? No. But it resonated for a great many. That's undeniable. Does that mean that every kid is going to have Avatar bedsheets like we did with Star Wars back in the day? No, and there's no need. A film can strike a chord, change how certain types of movies are made, and be a defining point in cinema without all of that. People didn't go to King Kong conventions back in the 30's but it was still a giant moment in cinema. Its the same with Avatar.

That a few on the internet will constantly "weigh in" on why they don't appreciate a film on the same levels as others is a given. Its the age we live in, par for the course.

Whether or not Avatar is considered a work of genius or just another event movie by any given individual makes little difference. I'm just glad that Cameron is back and once again raising the bar for science fiction in general and that he made a movie that greatly spoke to me. Apparently he and I love a lot of the same stories.

I'm not sure I want any sequels (look what happened to The Matrix franchise, apples and oranges when you compare the directors but still), but I'm looking forward to enjoying both the movie and its merchandise (high end of course) for years to come.

Avatar is a true work of genius

 

[LOTRFan]

I doubt it. Good CG is good CG. The dinos in Jurassic Park still look fantastic and that movie is 16 years old! AOTC was subpar even in its day. Gollum (who also debuted in 2002) was light years ahead of it.

In relative terms I still think Terminator 2 has better CGI and practical effects than much of what I have seen today; and even parts of Avatar.

 

[LOTRFan]

TPM's cgi and visuals shouldn't even really be compared to Avatar ...

Agreed, I wasn't comparing it to Avatar I was posting in regards to a comment made about AOTC.

 

[Bannister]

Avatar did another 19 million yesterday. It did 16 million last Monday. I officially was wrong about this film's box office take. At this point I have no idea where it will end up, but second all time is pretty likely. I am really interested to see what kind of drop off it has once kids go back to school, but even with that, it is still going to make a ton of money.

 

[Jen]

Wonder if we will get to hear James Cameron declare that he is once again King of the World.

 

[Dusty]

Wonder if we will get to hear James Cameron declare that he is once again King of the World.

NOooooOOOoo!!! I will mute his speech if he wins a Globe or Oscar


I was also officially wrong about box office take. He's a genius for getting so many butts in seats for a film about 10 foot tall blue cat aliens. It's like Transformers, but instead of robots, they're cats!

 

[Bannister]

NOooooOOOoo!!! I will mute his speech if he wins a Globe or Oscar


I was also officially wrong about box office take. He's a genius for getting so many butts in seats for a film about 10 foot tall blue cat aliens. It's like Transformers, but instead of robots, they're cats!

I am sure if he wins again he will proclaim himself "King of the Universe."

 

[King Darkness]

I proclaim myself King of the Mexicans

 

[Bullseye]

I want to see this again on the big screen. It was such a great experiance.

 

[LChinoz]

This movie is still making a crazy amount of money. How does James Cameron do it? Damn...amazing.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

Nice try. But I never said A.I. was a "religious experience". I simply pointed out that it has an unmistakably religious and theological theme that forces you to think and analyze it in order to "get it". It's a movie that's conceit and story/plot are unapologetically secondary to its message.

AVATAR is also a movie that is about something more than its plot with a theme and message. But where it differs is that it wears its technical conceit on its sleeve... and its theme is something a 12 year old could easily decipher. Which is perfectly fine. I just happen to believe that prevents it from being a true work of "genius".

So is A.I. I forget who it was, but someone once said that there are only 3 stories that get retold over and over in movies. Everything else is a rehash.

 

[TURINS~BANE]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

Going to see this Thursday, cant wait!:chew

 

[RJMacReady16]

To anyone who hasn't seen it yet...proceed with caution and don't buy into the hype.

 

[roguebaron]

Re: I saw AVATAR in 3D!

saw it tonight and really enjoyed the 3D, it is flawless. I can easily see why it's like Avatars with wolves, but that theme has been around for decades so I didn't mind so much. It also doesn't really drag at any point, which was my worry after the snoozefest that was titanic where all I can remember was thinking, get on with it, sink already.

 

[Khev]

I'm going to go see it for a second time tomorrow, but it'll be in 2D this time. I want to see how well it plays in both formats on the big screen. I'm looking forward to seeing how the colors and clarity play out without the 3D effects.