James Cameron's AVATAR discussion thread

[devilof76]

I wasn't playing. I was serious. You're confessing an inability to understand things without a racist slant to them.

You aren't being accused of being a supremacist. That is a particular kind of racist, who sees their race as being superior to all others. But that is not the essence of racism. Racism is the belief that race is a primary causal factor in a person's actions; so fundamental, in fact, that they would not even know that it was motivating them unless they had it pointed out to them.

Which is exactly the kind of accusations you and those criticizing the film are making.

 

[DinoLast]

So there you have it.
Avatar is a movie about a white man, who hates his own race so much

Spoiler

he becomes a black man at the end

Actually Avatar was partly inspired by the Lawrence of Arabia story.
I can also see parallels of A Man called horse in this movie too
Avatar also hits a lot of the same chords of Monomyth/The Hero's Journey

In a monomyth, the hero begins in the ordinary world, and receives a call to enter an unknown world of strange powers and events. The hero who accepts the call to enter this strange world must face tasks and trials, either alone or with assistance. In the most intense versions of the narrative, the hero must survive a severe challenge, often with help. If the hero survives, the hero may achieve a great gift or "boon." The hero must then decide whether to return to the ordinary world with this boon

So Avatar is not Racist because for the story to work, it has to start with the Hero being as far removed as he can be from the culture that he one day yearns to join and also defend

Spoiler

I think at the end of the day the Na'vi saved Jake more than he saved them

 

[ironwez20]

Am i the only one who relizes that he was blue, and without the navi body he couldnt do half the stuff he did.

 

[Shropt]

I wasn't playing. I was serious. You're confessing an inability to understand things without a racist slant to them.

You aren't being accused of being a supremacist. That is a particular kind of racist, who sees their race as being superior to all others. But that is not the essence of racism. Racism is the belief that race is a primary causal factor in a person's actions; so fundamental, in fact, that they would not even know that it was motivating them unless they had it pointed out to them.

Which is exactly the kind of accusations you and those criticizing the film are making.

Since when did you see the movie devilof76? I think you are just here to pick a fight.

 

[Shropt]

So there you have it.
Avatar is a movie about a white man, who hates his own race so much he becomes a black man at the end.

What movie see? I think your screen may have been messed up. I only saw him become a native of an alien planet/race.

 

[DinoLast]

What movie see? I think your screen may have been messed up. I only saw him become a native of an alien planet/race.

That was a comment making fun of people who think the movie is racist.
I put it that way to reflect the other claims of Racism against the movie.
I don't actually believe that the Na'vi are meant to be black, so don't take it out of context

 

[lightwave000]

Here is the Neytiri statue in the works


https://www.sideshowtoy.com/?p=8169...e=newsletter-pers-121709news&utm_medium=email

 

[SnakeDoctor]

I will admit to not fully understanding the racist angle that some are seeing. I understand, in concept, the argument that a white savior for a the blue indians indicates white superiority in dealing with the threat. However, in this case, the threat was all the other white guys ... certainly the fact that 98% of white characters in this movie were villains detracts from the "white superiority" argument.

In the movie, the blue indians were portrayed uniformly as wise and admirable -- connected with nature, innocent, selfless, high-minded, humble, etc. With the exception of about three characters, the hoards of white characters were portrayed as obnoxious, belligerent, bloodthirsty, selfish, greedy, arrogant, and fully willing to murder and steal to achieve their goals. Even the white protagonist and couple of sympathetic white scientists were portrayed as incapable when not in their blue bodies ... the marine was referred to as a "like a baby", and had to undergo blue indian re-education before becoming wise and admirable.

I'm not seeing how this particular portrayal belies racism against the blue guys.

SnakeDoc

 

[LOTRFan]

I will admit to not fully understanding the racist angle that some are seeing. I understand, in concept, the argument that a white savior for a the blue indians indicates white superiority in dealing with the threat. However, in this case, the threat was all the other white guys ... certainly the fact that 98% of white characters in this movie were villains detracts from the "white superiority" argument.

In the movie, the blue indians were portrayed uniformly as wise and admirable -- connected with nature, innocent, selfless, high-minded, humble, etc. With the exception of about three characters, the hoards of white characters were portrayed as obnoxious, belligerent, bloodthirsty, selfish, greedy, arrogant, and fully willing to murder and steal to achieve their goals. Even the white protagonist was referred to as a "like a baby", and had to undergo blue indian reeducation before becoming wise and admirable. I'm not seeing how this particular portrayal belies racism against the blue guys.

SnakeDoc

There we go.

The Na'vi were presented as all things admirable (through a very ecological slant); just because the "might" of the white man was demonstrated, they are hardly the heroes of the story, and of course the hero becomes a "minority" in the film. In a thinly veiled plot, it is very clearly demonstrated that the Na'vi didn't elevate to the white man's status, but rather Sulley elevated to their's - in Cameron's mind anyway.

 

[hoodonit00]

i wouldnt call it racist per se, but this is another movie that, yet again, promotes the thinking that white is the most supreme race of all. i mean, the indigenous could not take care of themselves in the end, could they? they need the white man to act as their saviour and leader to solve their problems.

other culture-clash films like 'last samurai' has the same subtext. and everytime i see that i just want to take a dung on hollywood's doorstep.

how about a hollywood movie that shows the other races quite capable of saving their own world/culture, and have the white man just be a side character, for once?

Oh Lord how did I miss this. You and your kind(and by your kind, I mean people who look for any reason to be offended by something)are so full of BS it's pathetic. I wouldn't care if Jake was Black, White, Yellow or whatever. The important thing is is that Jake knows the CAPABILITIES of the mercenaries getting ready to attack them. He would know that taking out the air intakes on the big ships would bring them down. Something the indiginous people wouldn't know. Was Independance Day racist because Will Smith saved the planet? How about I Am Legend? What about Book Of Eli? Puhlease.

 

[galactiboy]

While I would say the movie being considered Racist is a large stretch... it certainly doesn't have the most diverse human cast; but that is fairly typical of Hollywood and not something that raises eyebrows.

I can see the argument about the "white savior" idea, but likely the same argument would have been made if an actor of color had played Jake Sully. You could still say that its dominant culture (human) saving the oppressed culture that can't help themselves (Na'Vi).

Planet of the Apes has had the same complaints lobbed against it; some were even more angered by it claiming that the film was comparing different races to apes. Is it valid as a direct afront to non-white groups; I don't think so. But, at the same time it likely does hint at an underlying sense of ethnocentrism.

At the end of the day I think with enough time and consideration you can cry foul with pretty much all movies and finding "hidden themes" can become fairly easy; but not necessarily accurate.

 

[hoodonit00]

I can see it now. Next year on the MTV movie awards Kanye West is going to get up and say James Cameron doesn't care about Black people.

 

[lightwave000]

Im not sure how the last many pages turned into talking about racism or race in the movie but I didnt pick up on any of that.

Well its pulled in $1,367,926,371 thus far

very close to beating star wars domestically for sci fi adventure. Although after inflation and the extra charge for 3d glasses I think its in the top 60 or 70 all time.

 

[hoodonit00]

now don't take this the wrong way, but it's fascinating to see how many americans have jumped all over the so-called racist elements in avatar.

over here in southeast asia, no one has read into the film that way. to us, it's just a film.

make of that what u will.

No really, most of us Americans are just enjoying it for what it is. Just a small group of people are bringing up the race issue.

 

[hoodonit00]

i get the feeling you're trying to be clever or cool or something, but i just dont see it, sorry. dont stop trying though. keep inhaling that plastic toy smell. would help, no doubt.


some hindus did take offense. there was an article about it. somewhere.

You're trying your damndest to make others appear to be fools but it's pretty plain to see by the majority of responses who is getting that honor.

 

[Geil]

I thought there would be piece with the giant ...... sleeping
Let's not fuel this anymore than it deserves as anyone who can be convinced has been and whats left is merely stubborn residue that will not and cannot dissolve itself.
There are the ones that come to discuss and even debate their hobby and there are the ones that come and treat this forum as a video game challenge where quantities of take downs are what they are looking for.

 

[Geil]

To bring this back to topic a little
I loved the movie but more likely for it's 3D than anything else. For now I can't see myself wanting to buy figures from HT for any of the characters and if 3D indeed becomes the norm I can't see myself seeing this over and over again like TDK

BUT I am sure this forum will somehow manage to get me to buy into even these HT figures

 

[galactiboy]

If HT did a true 1/6 Na'Vi I'd have a hard time saying no... while I'm not 100% in love with the blue people, it still would be a damn impressive looking figure.

 

[Geil]

Would also have to be the tallest box in their history

 

[BadMoon]

You're trying your damndest to make others appear to be fools but it's pretty plain to see by the majority of responses who is getting that honor.

Thats why I deemed him unworthy of a retort.