James Cameron's AVATAR discussion thread

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In other words, you can't come up with a response to my previous post. :)

But seriously, that comment doesn't "ruin" anything but the utility of using "it's just a movie" as an argument. Because guess what? Those were just movies, too.

I have read your argument, and honestly it is really poorly thought out. You are not drawing your conclusions of racial insensitivity from examples in the film, you are using examples in the film to try and shape your desired argument. I have seen it done many times. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just a bit lazy. You brush over the fact that all the villains are white. You also call Jake the "white savior" when clearly it is he who is saved by the natives. Your "graciousness" to give JC the benefit of the doubt is laughable and comes off as snobby. Just my opinion.
 
Do you think intent is the only consideration? Are minstrel depictions still racist if the creators weren't actively intending them to be so? Or do you think things could be more complicated than that?



I have explicitly said I don't think this. You might find it helps if you take the time to read people's posts before responding to them.

Please, the creators of minstrel knew exactly what they were doing. They weren't hiding that.

ACTUALLY, I just said a generic statement. You responded TO ME with your statement about minstrels, which to me made it sound like you thought this movie was racist so I only went off that. I feel no need to read the rest of your posts when I was never directly talking to YOU in the first place.
 
Now that I think of it, Return of the Jedi is racist too...
I mean... WTH, why did Ewoks needed a Wookie to help them defeat the Empire?... seriously...

ewoks-chewie.jpg

You just get it now???
George Lucas has always been the biggest racist of them all right behind Gene Roddenberry :maul
OK seriously now Ewoks are a species they are too dumb to be a race and Chewy, dude he is just hairy :rotfl
 
Now that I think of it, Return of the Jedi is racist too...
I mean... WTH, why did Ewoks needed a Wookie to help them defeat the Empire?... seriously...

ewoks-chewie.jpg

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/bbofnScfJls&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/bbofnScfJls&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
 
BACK TO TOPIC and AWAY FROM FEEDING YOUR HUNGER FOR PERSONAL REDEMPTION THROUGH THIS THREAD!!
OH shiet this is the discussion thread ooopsy :)
But you guys think HT will make those flying dragons too?? If animated I might just go for one of them afterall but they be sooooo big! Is it possible that HT makes something other than 1/^?
 
BACK TO TOPIC and AWAY FROM FEEDING YOUR HUNGER FOR PERSONAL REDEMPTION THROUGH THIS THREAD!!
OH shiet this is the discussion thread ooopsy :)
But you guys think HT will make those flying dragons too?? If animated I might just go for one of them afterall but they be sooooo big! Is it possible that HT makes something other than 1/^?

Highly doubt it..We'll be lucky to see proper scale Na'vi characters!
 
I have read your argument, and honestly it is really poorly thought out. You are not drawing your conclusions of racial insensitivity from examples in the film, you are using examples in the film to try and shape your desired argument.

This is just empty rhetoric. It's not actually a counter argument.

You brush over the fact that all the villains are white. You also call Jake the "white savior" when clearly it is he who is saved by the natives.

You're not helped by making things up. I don't brush over the fact that all the villains are white - indeed I specifically point to it to underline my opinion that Cameron isn't a racist! And of course yes, the natives literally (and arguably metaphorically) save Jake, but I would hope we're all bright enough to understand what savior means in this context.

Your "graciousness" to give JC the benefit of the doubt is laughable and comes off as snobby.

I'm not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. Cameron has never done anything to imply he's a racist. I don't think Avatar is a racist film. On the other hand, some of the claims of racial insensitivity have merit. I can see where those criticisms are coming from, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

This moronic "all or nothing" mentality has to stop. Avatar can be both a beautiful escapist adventure film while also inadvertently throwing up some questionable racial undertones. It's not necessarily a bad thing to discuss those, although an Internet toy forum is probably not the right venue - especially one where the quality of debate rarely rises above "fanboy" and "hater." :)
 
Please, the creators of minstrel knew exactly what they were doing.

So then you think Song of the South and Transformers 2 were intentionally racist?

You responded TO ME with your statement about minstrels, which to me made it sound like you thought this movie was racist so I only went off that.

You know what they say about assumptions.

I feel no need to read the rest of your posts when I was never directly talking to YOU in the first place.

First time in a public forum? :)
 
Now that I think of it, Return of the Jedi is racist too...
I mean... WTH, why did Ewoks needed a Wookie to help them defeat the Empire?... seriously...

ewoks-chewie.jpg

Not only that but one of the most ruthless villains in movie history is in a black costume and only when he turns back to "good" is he shown as being a white guy. :D
 
Not only that but one of the most ruthless villains in movie history is in a black costume and only when he turns back to "good" is he shown as being a white guy.

I know this is just a joke, but the original Star Wars films were really very positive from a racial perspective, especially considering when they were made. The Empire was a bunch of white people while the Rebel Alliance was open to all races - literally! It was also pretty good from a gender perspective, with Leia a strong character and Mon Mothma as the leader of the Rebellion.

Things get dicier in the prequels. :)
 
Wow. From Transformers to racism. This thread is going downhill fast! ;) If anything, this film is 'racist' toward humans (and especially toward humans with disabilities). Which I kind of take offense to - it's one of my problems with it (yes, I finally saw it last night).

It's like a giant cop-out... humanity sucks, so let's just ditch it. Now I don't have to "wake up"! It's a strange lesson and definitely appeals to those of us who would love to live in a dream world at all times. I can fully understand why it's so popular! James Cameron is a genius. He has taken the most clichéd bits and pieces of the most popular films and pieced them together for the biggest mass appeal possible... and it takes talent to do that, for sure.

But honestly, I think it would have been ten times better if Jake wasn't in a wheelchair and instead had full use of his legs - in fact, if he had been a fully-functioning Navy Seal or fireman, etc...a fine specimen of a man, if you will. 1) It wouldn't have been so gosh-darn predictable...and 2) it would have made his eventual 'mutiny' much more powerful. Take someone who has it all and is willing to give it all up, and it resounds SO MUCH more than using a character who has absolutely nothing to lose - of COURSE he's going to turn, duh. As it stands, it seems that one of the main reasons he ditches humanity is for the physical prowess of being a Na'vi (all of the technologically masterbatory scenes of him reveling in his newfound glory do nothing but hammer that point home... and they look really cool - that flying was superb and the water! Wow, amazing.). Yeah, he found a sexy, cool girlfriend and learned to respect their ways, but that was secondary.

The major plot holes definitely proved that you do have to 'check your brain' to a certain extent and just have fun. And it WAS fun! But like I told my husband multiple times throughout, as he turned to me with a furrowed brow: "Don't ask questions, just go with it!" - ;)

Regardless of anything else, it's an absolutely gorgeous *looking* movie. And honestly, I feel the need to go further into detail than that, or to see it again. I did not make any emotional connections with it (except for one very brief moment during the time when the tree was coming down and there was a mother running with her baby in her arms - and that's mostly because I have a baby that age), and I'd say that everyone else in the audience was in the same boat. No tears, no laughter (except at some truly idiotic lines... "Come get some!"...really?!), no cheering when the bad guy was defeated. True, the audience, including myself, was abuzz with discussion after it, but all I heard was "How cool did it look/sound when ________ happened?!" And yes, that did indeed look/sound cool. Absolutely no argument there! But the characters were all very one-note, absolutely NO character arcs or surprising revelations. As cool as it looked, it was surprisingly *bland*.

On a technological / cool factor level - nothing currently can top it. On an emotional / story level, COMBINED with technological / cool factor - LOTR takes the cake.

Anyway, I'd give it a solid 7/10. The Abyss is my favorite Cameron movie, followed by Aliens and T2. (I saw Titanic 3 times in theaters, but haven't watched it since one time on VHS when I lost interest halfway through.)

If anyone cares, here are my top 10 movies of all time, in no particular order - and no, not a Transformer among them ;)

- Star Wars (Original Trilogy)
- LOTR (basically one big 10-hour movie)
- Pirates of the Caribbean (first one only)
- Princess Bride
- Pulp Fiction
- One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
- Halloween (first one only)
- Moulin Rouge
- Pride and Prejudice
- Casablanca

(10 is so hard!!! This was just off the top of my head)
 
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Dusty the voice of reason. :lecture

I think general tone of the thread is par for the course with the film; initially there was a bang of excitement (i.e. the visual flair) but it really does leave you with precious little as far as talking points and you begin in the tangential (i.e. racism and robots). Although we could just continue to bump all six or so threads with the same YouTube clips about the AMP suit. :angelsmil
 
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