James Cameron's AVATAR discussion thread

[hoodonit00]

Sure. But "as good as the scenery in other top movies" isn't really what's driving Avatar right now. It may be worth remembering that Hollywood rallied behind 3D because it gives them the opportunity to sell something you can't get at home. That's inevitably going to have an impact on home video sales moving forward, although how the relationship plays out remains to be seen.

Even if you took out the 3-D effects this movie would still be considered a financial success. I don't know why so many are arguing this point. As a stand alone movie, it is one hell of a good action movie. As someone has already pointed out, the Foriegn gross which isn't relying heavily on 3-D technology now stands at 1,303,580,507 which is more than LOTR ROTK total take. This movie is a behemoth with no signs of slowing down.

 

[barbelith]

Even if you took out the 3-D effects this movie would still be considered a financial success. I don't know why so many are arguing this point.

I don't think anyone is arguing that point.

 

[hoodonit00]

I don't think anyone is arguing that point.

Ok more to the point. You're saying that the movies financial success is because of the 3-D technology. I've posted how well it's doing in the Foriegn market without 3-D. People are seeing this movie for more then the 3-D experience. I have no reason to believe that if it was released here without 3-D that it would not have been as successful.

You posted this

"Avatar is performing respectably in ticket sales, but would have to more than double its current run to even cause the leaders to break into a sweat. It's a hit movie, but the nominal box office is down to inflation and the 3D surcharge".

How is it that the Foriegn box office of Avatar is beating the total take of ROTK. Have ticket prices gone up that much since ROTK was released?

And you posted this "The "wow" factor here has nothing to do with the movie itself and I think a lot of people are going to wonder why they were so hyped up when they see a 2D version on their TV at home."

Which again I bring in the Foriegn take of this film. Seems like plently of them were wowed by the 2D version.

 

[GuruAskew]

Go watch some of IMDB's top 200 list, and then come back.

Yeah, go devote hundreds of hours watching movies based on a list where "The Matrix" is ranked higher than "Citizen Kane" because some 8-year-old online told you to.

 

[hoodonit00]

Yeah, go devote hundreds of hours watching movies based on a list where "The Matrix" is ranked higher than "Citizen Kane" because some 8-year-old online told you to.

Ouch.

 

[darthviper107]

Citizen Kane isn't that great

 

[GuruAskew]

Yeah, its totally worse than the movie with this little exchange:

Trinity: A sentinel. A killing machine designed for one thing.
Dozer: Search and destroy.

Yeah, "The Matrix" is "top 25 of all time" material alright. The Wachowskis made Welles look like a little biotch.

 

[Something Sexy]

I would say check out the AFI top 100 list instead of IMDB.

IMDB is full of _______s.

 

[barbelith]

You're saying that the movies financial success is because of the 3-D technology.

I've never said that's the only reason it's successful. I do think it's a major reason why it's become the juggernaut it has, and this is borne out by observations of discussions about Avatar both in the media and among viewers. You virtually never hear anyone talk about the characters and story. This thread isn't dominated by discussion about Jake Sully and how he's going to become an iconic pop culture figure like Han Solo or whatever. The 3D and other technology is almost always the focal point of discussion, and I think a huge part of the reason Avatar is doing this degree of business is because a significant part of the audience wants to see what this noise is all about.

The foreign market haul is impressive without much 3D input, but we have to remember this is one of the first event films made available on a wide scale to more than 2 billion people in China, India and Russia contemporaneous to its US release. That has significant repercussions. Avatar is a good movie but not a great one, and I think what we're seeing is the result of a perfect storm.

How is it that the Foriegn box office of Avatar is beating the total take of ROTK. Have ticket prices gone up that much since ROTK was released?

The foreign release landscape has undergone a fairly radical shift since ROTK.

Which again I bring in the Foriegn take of this film. Seems like plently of them were wowed by the 2D version.

Avatar is available in 3D overseas.

 

[LChinoz]

Citizen Kane isn't that great

It isn't the best movie ever made, I personally think that title belongs to Vertigo, but it is one of the most innovative films ever made. Orson Welles used many revolutionary techniques in his film making, and his genius is really highlighted from beginning to end in Citizen Kane. I studied film and the media so we had to watch a lot of Citizen Kane and it definitely gave me a new respect for the techniques Welles used rather than the story and characters. It is not the best story in the world, especially if you know the true life story of William Randolph Hearst.

 

[barbelith]

Citizen Kane isn't that great

In order to fully appreciate Citizen Kane, you have to have a working knowledge of what cinema was like before and after that movie. It's a lot like Star Wars and Avatar in that respect.

 

[LChinoz]

In order to fully appreciate Citizen Kane, you have to have a working knowledge of what cinema was like before and after that movie. It's a lot like Star Wars and Avatar in that respect.

While I agree with you when Citizen Kane was released it was revolutionary, it is not like Avatar in the sense that when it was released, no one was really blown away with it, mainly because Welles' style is not in your face like huge leaps in computer generated imagery. And we also have yet to know where film making will go after Avatar. Citizen Kane got high praise after the initial release, but it took film makers and audiences a long time before appreciating how Welles would change directing a film. I particularly think after Citizen Kane, people began to realize how important the role of director is. Every big (and small) name director has Welles to thank for being partially responsible for the accolades now being given to the director of a film.

 

[barbelith]

While I agree with you when Citizen Kane was released it was revolutionary, it is not like Avatar in the sense that when it was released, no one was really blown away with it, mainly because Welles' style is not in your face like huge leaps in computer generated imagery.

Quite right, but we're talking about two different things here. I was referring to an appreciation of Citizen Kane as cinema and how it plugs into the canon, rather than audience reaction.

And we also have yet to know where film making will go after Avatar.

As someone who doesn't see any real difference between 2D Avatar and The Phantom Menace in terms of what can be painted on the screen, I don't actually think it's going to be revolutionary in this sense. I'm struggling to figure out what it adds outside the behind-the-scenes toolkit, which provides an easier way to give us what we've already been getting for a decade. There's no real innovation in actual onscreen cinematic technique, for example.

 

[darthviper107]

In order to fully appreciate Citizen Kane, you have to have a working knowledge of what cinema was like before and after that movie. It's a lot like Star Wars and Avatar in that respect.

I was actually impressed by the filming techniques considering what they actually were able to do at the time, but I still didn't like it that much, definitely not #1


But still Matrix is at least in the top 100

 

[Something Sexy]

You guys can sugar coat it all your want or make up excuses. Doesn't matter it is about total dollars now and it will be about total dollars in the future no matter what way you look at. Cameron is a genius for being able to take a pretty basic movie and turn it into gold. He knew when the technology would be perfect and when it would be the perfect time to release it to make it a success.

 

[LChinoz]

You guys can sugar coat it all your want or make up excuses. Doesn't matter it is about total dollars now and it will be about total dollars in the future no matter what way you look at. Cameron is a genius for being able to take a pretty basic movie and turn it into gold. He knew when the technology would be perfect and when it would be the perfect time to release it to make it a success.

I certainly agree that for Cameron to have the top 2 grossing movies of all time is simply an amazing achievement, inflation or not.

 

[barbelith]

I certainly agree that for Cameron to have the top 2 grossing movies of all time is simply an amazing achievement, inflation or not.

Yep. It's a stunning accomplishment. He knows how to walk the thin line that separates mass market from lowest common denominator. Few can!

 

[barbelith]

Doesn't matter it is about total dollars now and it will be about total dollars in the future no matter what way you look at.

The reality is Gone With the Wind wipes the floor with Avatar by miles when we look at grosses adjusted for inflation. Why should we ignore that in favor of nominal dollars? It's deliberately ignorant.

The bean counters will be looking at those impressive nominal dollars, but you can be sure they'd much rather have the real dollars Gone With the Wind raked in.

 

[GuruAskew]

The bean counters will be looking at those impressive nominal dollars, but you can be sure they'd much rather have the real dollars Gone With the Wind raked in.

Not necessarily because its not as if the box office take is the end-all of money like it was back then. That box office take is practically all "GWtW" has going for it. Now the studios can look forward to video releases, merchandise, broadcasting rights etc.

No movie will ever make that kind of money at the box office again but the studios are simply making that money elsewhere with varied content. The times have changed and the entertainment industry has adapted.

 

[barbelith]

Not necessarily because its not as if the box office take is the end-all of money like it was back then. That box office take is practically all "GWtW" has going for it. Now the studios can look forward to video releases, merchandise, broadcasting rights etc.

But all of those also apply to Gone With the Wind, which is arguably better merchandised after 70 years than Avatar is likely to be just five years from now (ask yourself where all that Matrix merchandise is today). $6 billion in real dollars is better than $2 billion in real dollars.

I don't deny Avatar is performing (literally) phenomenally, but the idea that only nominal dollars count is just silly.