James Cameron's AVATAR discussion thread

[GuruAskew]

There's "Gone with the Wind" merchandise?

Also, I'm not saying this is a good thing but "Terminator: Salvation" has probably sold 5 times as many copies on DVD and Blu-Ray alone than "Gone with the Wind" has on every video format combined. TV broadcast rights are probably the only regular source of income for that movie throughout the years.

Again, it's an apples/oranges comparison. "Gone with the Wind" became the most popular movie of all time at a time in which the movie theater pretty much had books and music to compete with. That will simply never happen again, nor should it.

"Gone with the Wind" is a great movie but I for one am glad that I live in a time when it's not one of the only thing going in movie theaters for 4 years.

Ultimately attendance is the best way to compare two movies released within a few years of one another (and I think pretty much everything before the early 80's is fair game) but when you're using it to compare two movies 7 decades apart it really doesn't hold up.

 

[barbelith]

There's "Gone with the Wind" merchandise?

There's a ton of it, but since it doesn't take the form of geek-friendly merchandise like premium format Rhett Butler statues I'm going to give everyone a pass for not knowing about it.

Meanwhile, anyone who thinks nominal box office means anything in real terms is welcome to give me the real value of $100 dollars in 1939 in exchange for $100 nominal dollars today. Here's a tip: you'll be more than $1400 in the hole.

 

[Dusty]

There's a ton of it, but since it doesn't take the form of geek-friendly merchandise like premium format Rhett Butler statues I'm going to give everyone a pass for not knowing about it.

Meanwhile, anyone who thinks nominal box office means anything in real terms is welcome to give me the real value of $100 dollars in 1939 in exchange for $100 nominal dollars today. Here's a tip: you'll be more than $1400 in the hole.

A ____ ton of it to be exact Gone With the Wind has a ginormous following in the 'non geek' collectible culture. So does The Wizard of Oz.

Not sure of the appeal of collectibles from Avatar outside the 'geek' market. ie: it's a crossover in appeal in the theaters, but will those people buy the merchandise? It's an interesting test! Someone mentioned LOTR and collecting a while back, and that's a good example - a ton of people who never collected a 'geek' item bought LOTR statues... is Avatar going to do the same? Only time will tell!

 

[wofford29]

I'd be interested to see actual numbers of the breakdown between 3D/2D money. Numbers of theater screens means nothing. If it's playing in 30 screens here and half are 3D and the other half 2D. That doesn't mean that half it's take can be attributed to 2D screens. For all we know 95 out of 100 people could have gone to see it in 3D and visa versa.

edit: I know I live in Atlanta so it's kind of skewed here, but there is a Gone With The Wind museum in what seems like every town.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

There's "Gone with the Wind" merchandise?

Also, I'm not saying this is a good thing but "Terminator: Salvation" has probably sold 5 times as many copies on DVD and Blu-Ray alone than "Gone with the Wind" has on every video format combined. TV broadcast rights are probably the only regular source of income for that movie throughout the years.

Again, it's an apples/oranges comparison. "Gone with the Wind" became the most popular movie of all time at a time in which the movie theater pretty much had books and music to compete with. That will simply never happen again, nor should it.

"Gone with the Wind" is a great movie but I for one am glad that I live in a time when it's not one of the only thing going in movie theaters for 4 years.

Ultimately attendance is the best way to compare two movies released within a few years of one another (and I think pretty much everything before the early 80's is fair game) but when you're using it to compare two movies 7 decades apart it really doesn't hold up.

who's been livin under a rock?

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I'd be interested to see actual numbers of the breakdown between 3D/2D money. Numbers of theater screens means nothing. If it's playing in 30 screens here and half are 3D and the other half 2D. That doesn't mean that half it's take can be attributed to 2D screens. For all we know 95 out of 100 people could have gone to see it in 3D and visa versa.

edit: I know I live in Atlanta so it's kind of skewed here, but there is a Gone With The Wind museum in what seems like every town.

I'm sure tickets for the 3-D version are more than the normal theater

 

[BadMoon]

I'd be interested to see actual numbers of the breakdown between 3D/2D money. Numbers of theater screens means nothing. If it's playing in 30 screens here and half are 3D and the other half 2D. That doesn't mean that half it's take can be attributed to 2D screens. For all we know 95 out of 100 people could have gone to see it in 3D and visa versa.

edit: I know I live in Atlanta so it's kind of skewed here, but there is a Gone With The Wind museum in what seems like every town.

THAT I never knew.

 

[ironwez20]

Omg why is thier a museum for that movie in every town ?

 

[wofford29]

This year is the 75th anniversary as well so theaters all over Atlanta have been playing it on a regular basis.

 

[wofford29]

I'm sure tickets for the 3-D version are more than the normal theater

Oh they definitely are.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Oh they definitely are.

I'd see a movie in 3-D if there was a theater closer that showed the format

 

[Bannister]

Omg why is thier a museum for that movie in every town ?

Because it is a classic and was set in Georgia.

 

[The Ween]

A ____ ton of it to be exact Gone With the Wind has a ginormous following in the 'non geek' collectible culture. So does The Wizard of Oz.

Not sure of the appeal of collectibles from Avatar outside the 'geek' market. ie: it's a crossover in appeal in the theaters, but will those people buy the merchandise? It's an interesting test! Someone mentioned LOTR and collecting a while back, and that's a good example - a ton of people who never collected a 'geek' item bought LOTR statues... is Avatar going to do the same? Only time will tell!

The toy action figures don't seem to be flying off the shelves. And I haven't seen anything else in the stores.

My 6 year old neice has Wizard of Oz collectibles.

 

[darthviper107]

Well, the amount of the box office that was in 3D theaters is much more than regular theaters, I think it was like 1.2 billion.

 

[GuruAskew]

eBay results for "Gone with the Wind" vs. "The Wizard of Oz":

in collectibles:

720 vs. 1565

in clothing, shoes & accessories

32 vs. 1192

in Entertainment Memorabilia:

499 vs.969

in toys & hobbies:

12 vs. 254

so clearly "Gone with the Wind" doesn't have the kind of presence outside of the movie itself that something like "Wizard of Oz" does (let alone modern movies), plus we all know that "Gone with the Wind" isn't the kind of movie that every mother in every generation buys her little girls.

But yeah, I'm glad you brought up "The Wizard of Oz" because it's the perfect example of how a movie's popularity cannot be defined on box office alone. It was initially a box office disappointment but the case could definitely be made that it's the most popular movie of all time over "Gone with the Wind" and "Star Wars".

Ultimately I think GWtW's status is more or less deserved but taking the changes in the entertainment industry into account it's not #1. I think you'd be a fool to put it any lower than the top 5 but I also think it's foolish to act as if the film's box office trumps all other avenues of popularity.

As I said before, there are several factors and gross has its merits and inflation adjustment has its merits and the circumstances of the media in question obviously needs to be factored in and like many things in life the answer is debatable.

There are few things in this world that can be answered definitively and it's absolutely absurd to suggest that inflation-adjusted movie performance is one of them.

 

[Bamboota]

Did you guys hear about China renaming a mountain in honor of Avatar!?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8480954.stm

 

[hairlesswookiee]

Did you guys hear about China renaming a mountain in honor of Avatar!?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8480954.stm

HAHAHA that's awesome!!!

 

[barbelith]

There are few things in this world that can be answered definitively and it's absolutely absurd to suggest that inflation-adjusted movie performance is one of them.

Actually, that's one of the few things that can be answered definitively.

 

[Something Sexy]

The reality is Gone With the Wind wipes the floor with Avatar by miles when we look at grosses adjusted for inflation. Why should we ignore that in favor of nominal dollars? It's deliberately ignorant.

The bean counters will be looking at those impressive nominal dollars, but you can be sure they'd much rather have the real dollars Gone With the Wind raked in.

Because Hollywood doesn't give two ____s about the adjusted for inflation, just nerds. When they look at it, it is whatever movie has brought in the most dollars now. Plus Hollywood isn't looking to the past, they are looking to the now. They money was made and spent.

And really, who cares about money those movies brought in so long ago, it is all about the now. The fun of it for me is usually the year to year predictions and trends and it is obviously cool now when a movie like Avatar brings in truck loads of money. Same people will be having this same conversation in 20 years when the next HUGE movie comes out.

I think Fox is pretty god damn happy that this movie is probably going to bring in over 2 billion dollars. They don't care what Gone with the Wind brought in with inflation.

 

[GuruAskew]

Actually, that's one of the few things that can be answered definitively.

How so? How can that be definitive when you can watch a movie on TV, on a video cassette, on a disc, on a phone, projected onto the side of your neighbor's house etc.?

When "Gone with the Wind" came out there was only one way to see a movie (not to mention the fact that movies were pretty much all there was to see) and as such that one figure (the box office gross) covers everyone who saw it. There's no such all-encompassing figure that accounts for everyone who sees a movie these days and as such you can't compare the two because the GWtW box office represents a much larger portion of its audience than any given modern movie's box office does.

I could challenge you to find out how many people have actually seen "Gone with the Wind" regardless of the format and compare it to a modern blockbuster but you won't do it because it's practically impossible to do, which again is my whole point.

That's why most people will use these various interpretations of the numbers: because there are advantages to each and their are flaws in each too. The only way to paint an accurate picture of a film's popularity is to look at the big picture and that big picture shows that "Gone with the Wind" had more than a few advantages over modern movies.

Also, I'd be willing to bet that the various rights holders of both "GWtW" and "TWoO" (primarily MGM, Turner Entertainment and now Warner Bros.) have made a lot more money off of the latter over the decades, initial box office performance be damned.