James Cameron's finest hour?

[damagecase]

I like how many people are saying a sequel was his finest hour. LOL.

 

[cr`]

Tarantino outright named his homages in his movies and never claimed credit for them. Lucas and Leone both gave Kurosawa his due credit before their movies even came out in theaters. the Wachowskis did the same. Cameron stood on the shoulders of giants and called himself "king of the world". what that tells me about Ellison is you should never plagiarise the biggest name in contemporary scifi literature and not expect repercussions. in the end, it took Cameron going to court for him to concede Ellison's work in the end credits on Terminator. he probably won't get sued for plagiarising Avatar, but it would help his credibility to at least acknowledge where he did it. i think he'll just get away with it and laugh all the way to the bank.

when and where did tarantino ever admit his climax for reservoir dogs was taken from ringo lam's city of fire? did lucas ever come out and say that his star wars was taken wholesale from kurosawa's hidden fortress? show me the links and i'll believe you.

everything is borrowed from everything else. no idea comes in a vacuum. even an original visionary such as stanley kubrick himself said something to that effect. and on that "king of the world" comment... it's called gigantic ego. every director in the hollywood has it. just because you dont see nolan or any other seemingly cool and collected director boasting it on top of the mountain, doesnt mean they dont look at themselves in the mirror at home and say, "i'm cool. my movie is cool. i'm so cool that when i do win an oscar i wont make an ass out of myself during my oscar speech. because i'm cool. cooler than cameron. so cool..."

I have nothing against Cameron. He's a Canadian inspiration. He's been acting like a fruit as of late.

many artists of any medium are slightly unhinged. try to separate the artist's personal life and his arts - that's what separate the real fans of movies/music/whatever and tabloid junkies.

 

[-=LoneWolf=-]

titanic of course... that's where he really made his money and got awarded for his work.

 

[DeltaForceChung]

I agree with almost every film listed except for one.

 

[KneelBeforrSmallville]

Camerons my hero

 

[cr`]

let's all just research further about the ellison's case and not just simpy take as fact what some geek said in a geek site...

Now, let's take a look at the basic story for 'Soldier'. Here is the quick synopsis offered by Wikipedia (IMDB.com doesn't offer one):

“Eighteen hundred years in the future, two foot soldiers clash on a battlefield. A random energy weapon strikes both and they are hurled into a time vortex. While one soldier is trapped in the matrix of time, the other, Qarlo Clobregnny, materializes on a city street in the year 1964. Qarlo is soon captured and interrogated by Tom Kagan, a philologist, and his origin is discovered. Qarlo has been trained for one purpose, fighting, and that is all he knows. Progress is made in "taming" him; eventually Qarlo comes to live with the Kagan family. But the time eddy holding the enemy soldier slowly weakens. Finally he materializes fully and tracks Qarlo to the Kagan home. In a final hand-to-hand battle, Qarlo sacrifices his life to kill the enemy and save the Kagan family.”

In that entire synopsis, merely one sentence parallels The Terminator: “Qarlo Clobregnny, materializes on a city street in the year 1964.”

That's it. By Harlan Ellison's own admission, the similarities between the two stories are in the very beginning. Again, here's what he said, “But if you took the first three minutes of The Terminator, they are not only similar but exact.”

and there's this:

Harlan Ellison has also filed many, many lawsuits. In 2006, he sued Fantographics, a publisher of comic books and alternative culture-themed books because he claimed several anecdotes about him were defamatory. In 2009, he sued Paramount, the owners of 'Star Trek', for failure to pay him royalties for an episode of the original series which he wrote that aired in 1967. He also sued the Writers Guild of America (the screenwriters' union) for failure to adequately protect him. In 2000, he sued a small website for posting the text of four of his stories but, more notably, also sued America Online and several other telecommunications companies for failing to detect and remove the presence of his stories.

apparently according to ellison the pulitzer prize winning writer cormac mcarthy also ripped him off:
https://boingboing.net/2011/01/03/harlan-ellison-recko.html

hence cameron aptly said: "harlan ellison is a parasite who can kiss my ass."

 

[CelticPredator]

What a ******. Not Cameron, Ellison.

 

[devilof76]

1) Aliens
2) Terminator

Uh, what were the other choices?

And for the record, no: not every idea was taken from someone else. Where do you think the ideas that everyone 'takes' come from in the first place? The ether?

 

[damagecase]

My only complaint about Cameron is with the sequels. Both of which are fine movies, but I don't think they do the originals justice. Aliens is close but just like T2, he took a fantastic horror flick and morphed it into an Scifi/Action flick. The same formula was used in both namely, we need more monsters, more guns, a more insurmountable antagonist and have the hero befriend a child. Not really genius or revolutionary, especially copying his own work. Just my thoughts.

 

[cr`]

1) Aliens
2) Terminator

Uh, what were the other choices?

And for the record, no: not every idea was taken from someone else. Where do you think the ideas that everyone 'takes' come from in the first place? The ether?

well everyone knows it's from the cavemen. duh.

What a ******. Not Cameron, Ellison.

yup. and contrary to what prefused said, cameron actually acknowledged that terminator was partly influenced by twilight zone episodes. he acknowledged it in a starlog magazine, hence he got in trouble. some believe that had he not mentioned it in print, ellison would have no case against cameron since the similarity between his 'soldier' episode and terminator is too slight to amount to plagiarism.

and i have to add to that "king of the world" comment, as a cameron fan. this has always been used as a prime example of cameron's ego ran amok. but let me try to provide the context for it...

the production for titanic ran into disaster after disaster, causing it to run way overbudget, turning it into the biggest most expensive chick fllick ever made. everyone in the media and all of hollywood predicted nothing but doom and gloom. the film was supposed to bankrupt 2 studios, kill the career of the once most prominent blockbuster director, and who knows how many execs. the film was, simply, going to sink and sink deep and take everyone on board along with it. that's what everybody predicted. cameron was hugely devastated and everyday on the set pressures were mounting.

but then the exact opposite happened. against all odds, titanic sailed on to become the biggest moneymaker ever. and on top of that, it was honored with multiple oscars noms. his hard work was validated, his faith in the project justified. and so walking on to that podium that night to claim his oscar, i'm sure he felt relieved and hugely elated. by that point he can be excused to say anything on that podium, and if he wanted to dub himself king of the world, he had bloody earned it.

 

[olbertfrog]

let's all just research further about the ellison's case and not just simpy take as fact what some geek said in a geek site...



and there's this:


apparently according to ellison the pulitzer prize winning writer cormac mcarthy also ripped him off:
https://boingboing.net/2011/01/03/harlan-ellison-recko.html

hence cameron aptly said: "harlan ellison is a parasite who can kiss my ass."

Thanks for pointing that out.
The Ellison stuff bugged me for a while until i read few articles and saw the outer limits episodes. Well there's really no ground for plagiarism.
What happened is that Orion didnt wanted to get to court at that time fearing that it would cause bad publicity for the movie but Cameron did wanted to go to court. Since he had no word in this he had to follow the production company decision.

As for Tarantino quoting the movies he rips off let me laugh please.
I'm still in shock about the way he ripped the story, shots and edits from City On fire and saying nothing about it to this day.
Don't get me wrong he addedc a lot and made the movie his but it's a bit tough to swallow.
Thank god for him the internet did not exist at that time.

As for Cameron being a ******, i think he is.
He's a ****** because of his art.
Like Kubrick was a ****** (look for the making of THE shinning and the way he dealt with his actress to get what he wanted).
The guy was already very tough on his teams when he's started in Corman's feature Galalxy of Terror, he started designing stuff, making fx then he got to direct the second unit stuff, he's an hard working guy who can't suffer fools and is not affraid to scream at an exec from Fox when the one goes on his set to tell him what to do.
All the people who worked with him say the same thing, he's a tough SOB but he knows his stuff.
His big problem is that he can do all the things he needs for a movie (he designs, writes, works the fx, lights, shoots, edits the guy knows he's right and talented so yeah he's probably infatuated with himself.
I don't give a rat's ass about his attitude or his comments.
The guy always delivers the goods.
As for the King of the world bit, it was just payback for the whole Hollywood who was mocking him while he was shooting TITANIC.
EVERYBODY predicted a failure and the guy comes with the ultimate success.
So yeah F.U. HOLLYWOOD ^^
Any human with pride would have done the same.
The guy earned his place amongs the greatest directors.
God he even designed the Predator!

 

[devilof76]

Tarantino makes better movies than Cameron.

well everyone knows it's from the cavemen. duh.

I suppose they had nothing better to do than to exhaust every plot available for all time, what with their idyllic utopian existence, free from the pressures of a high-tech industrial corporate global economy.

 

[olbertfrog]

Tarantino makes better movies than Cameron.

Like comparing a monkey and a sneaker.
No point.
Their cinema is different.
The day Tarantino does a scifi/action movie or Cameron does a cops and robbers movie we can compare.
As for pure directing style Cameron owns Tarantino big way coz he's got HIS style.
Tarantino rips... Sorry "pays hommage" to the cinema from the 70 to make his own stuff.
Audience having no memory of that era's directors is a plus.
But hey i like Tarantino but for what he is.
A gifted dialogist and smart mixer/sampler.
Take THE KILLING, mix it with CITY ON FIRE, add some great lines and awesome actors and you got RESERVOIR DOGS.

It's not about taste, since i like both for what they are.
It's just about being objective.

Being a graphic artist i could have done the same many times back in the days of no internet, having access to stuff rarely seen in my country, take a design there, a concept here, create something i could call mine.
But i rather prefered to find something fresh of my own instead of paying hommages.

 

[cr`]

As for Tarantino quoting the movies he rips off let me laugh please.
I'm still in shock about the way he ripped the story, shots and edits from City On fire and saying nothing about it to this day.
Don't get me wrong he addedc a lot and made the movie his but it's a bit tough to swallow.
Thank god for him the internet did not exist at that time.

at one time i was waiting for tarantino to say something about city on fire, but nope.. nothing. the final result is a very much different movie though, so i dont begrudge him that, just as i dont begrudge any director who stole things but made them their own. hacks copy, artists steal and get inspired.

As for Cameron being a ******, i think he is.
He's a ****** because of his art.
Like Kubrick was a ****** (look for the making of THE shinning and the way he dealt with his actress to get what he wanted).
The guy was already very tough on his teams when he's started in Corman's feature Galalxy of Terror, he started designing stuff, making fx then he got to direct the second unit stuff, he's an hard working guy who can't suffer fools and is not affraid to scream at an exec from Fox when the one goes on his set to tell him what to do.
All the people who worked with him say the same thing, he's a tough SOB but he knows his stuff.
His big problem is that he can do all the things he needs for a movie (he designs, writes, works the fx, lights, shoots, edits the guy knows he's right and talented so yeah he's probably infatuated with himself.
I don't give a rat's ass about his attitude or his comments.
The guy always delivers the goods.

exactly. even the all around 'good guy' director like spielberg worked his kid actor like a horse, shooting long hours days and nights. i dont think you can get far in the movie business if you're not much of a ******.

As for the King of the world bit, it was just payback for the whole Hollywood who was mocking him while he was shooting TITANIC.
EVERYBODY predicted a failure and the guy comes with the ultimate success.
So yeah F.U. HOLLYWOOD ^^
Any human with pride would have done the same.
The guy earned his place amongs the greatest directors.
God he even designed the Predator!

hey, i didnt know he designed the pred. cool to know. i always thought stan did that. but yeah, after all the hell he went through with titanic in the press and on the set, he earned the right to gloat on live tv.

Tarantino makes better movies than Cameron.



I suppose they had nothing better to do than to exhaust every plot available for all time, what with their idyllic utopian existence, free from the pressures of a high-tech industrial corporate global economy.

make babies and tell stories. that's all they did.

 

[devilof76]

They also spent a lot of time running around after food, running away from things that wanted to make them food, and dying young. But they had fresh air and no litter or billboards, right?

And I still consider Tarantino's ability to stylize whatever he touches to be infinitely superior to what Cameron does. Genre is irrelevant, and so is the fact that the internet exists. I've seen more than my fair share of 70's television and film (much of it when it was current), so my alleged lack of exposure to his source material is irrelevant as well.

Cameron is a stylistic bore. Tarantino is anything but.

 

[Master Wayne]

Will always be Aliens for me.

 

[occulum]

cant you guys just link your blue tails together and get along? ...

 

[krec9]

couldnt have said it better

Lucas IS a ho mo

 

[Voorhees27]

Like Kubrick was a ****** (look for the making of THE shinning and the way he dealt with his actress to get what he wanted).

Shelley Duvall was the weakest actress i'm sure he'd ever encountered. It had nothing to do with breaking her down to get what he wanted. She couldn't handle making a hard film. He was also persistent with Jack, he did multiple takes and the man never complained. She even thanked Kubrick in that same "making of The Shining" documentery.

 

[CelticPredator]

And it ended up being one of the best horror movies ever made.....so....