Jazzinc Dioramas 1/12 1989 Batwing

[Bleah]

Mostly 1/12 collectors. If we compare between the 1/6 and 1/12 collectors, this Batwing will appeal more to the 1/6 collectors because they have the budget and requirement for detail, which is why earlier you said why Jazzinc didn't just do a poll with the 1/12 community instead asking his closed group which would sell better, wasn't really the right answer because he's not asking his group which would sell better, he's asking his existing customer base which they'd buy between two choices and only vote if you'll actually going to purchase. He's not going to go to Mafex group and ask whether you'll buy option A at $500 or option B at $500.

One issue is trying to meet the needed numbers with a lower price which is significantly higher than the minimum needed for 1/6 hence, the kickstarter. What are the chances of a mostly 1/6 collector that bought the 1/6 batwing double dipping for a 1/12 version? The point of asking a 1/12 community is to draw in more people from the start. You're fine with this being $500 but guess what, Joost didn't see that with his 1/12 BvS batmobile. The video says it took him 5 years to sell 250 units only (he said 2 and a half hundred). You mentioned HT's the Bat as well which is still in-stock in HK. And HT has far more reach than Jazzinc. So much for catering a 1/12 vehicle to the 1/6 crowd with more budget.

Getting a good number of 1/12 crowd's support along with the right price are more essential than just expecting the small pool of 1/6 collectors to pony up the money. I referenced Tomy's 1/10 DeLorean campaign that reached 3 times its goal in one day. The $30 Neca crowd showed up for that $300 toy. So yeah, I think a lot of 1/12 collectors with less budget than 1/6 collectors will show up for this at $300. $500 highly unlikely but maybe the 1/6 crowd can buy doubles to meet the numbers if you're still willing to pay $500.

 

[Rondesmo]

The recent Hasbro Haslab 1/12 Ecto-1 campaign has been successfully funded and the prices are 330 $ for the base version and 399 $ for the deluxe if I remember correctly.

 

[Bleah]

The recent Hasbro Haslab 1/12 Ecto-1 campaign has been successfully funded and the prices are 330 $ for the base version and 399 $ for the deluxe if I remember correctly.

That's a good example.

That's why I mentioned doing the poll with 1/12 collectors being able to vote. They'll show up if you cater to them. I think having that poll outside a closed group also creates buzz for the product. It's just that I feel the results are skewed towards a group that doesn't capture the 1/12 party which are bigger in numbers.

 

[shadows]

It's the Jazzinc prices that will kill any chance of 1/12 collectors being very interested and it's the very few 1/6 collectors that are interested in 1/12 vehicles.

Yes, there are SOME from both camps. I do not believe there are enough of either, to make this a successful launch.

I personally don't need and am absolutely not interested in JazzInc level of detail, accuracy and features for a 1/12 vehicle. Because that just destroys the idea of getting any value from going the 1/12 route (cheaper).

There is no reality that exists where I am paying over $300 for a 1/12 scale vehicle.

Ever. For any reason. I'd wager I'm not alone on that. That I'm not the minority, but rather the majority opinion.

Your statement that i bolded really just concludes the point that, the products that Jazzinc offers - you are not the market for. And when it comes to figures I have a friend that says the exact same thing, that they don't need a certain level of detail like Hot Toys, whereas I do, and they collect Marvel Legends and Necca figures. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just what somebody is looking for at a price they're willing to pay.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

How about over £300 for a diecast 1/18?

https://www.autoartcollection.co.uk/product-page/aston-martin-db5-james-bond-goldfinger-007-70296

Or how about this

https://lmprestigemodels.co.uk/prod...4-2014-nero-nemesis-matt-black-autoart-12096/

£428 for a 1/12 Lamborghini.

I don't know how much crossover there is with 1/12 toy collectors, but there is clearly a market for expensive high end vehicles at a smaller scale.

I mean, sure. Those options exist. But let's be honest with ourselves. Nobody's buying that.

 

[Dave_W]

I mean, sure. Those options exist. But let's be honest with ourselves. Nobody's buying that.

Nobody in THIS community, but if nobody bought them, all those companies would be out of business. It just depends if those kind of collectors are aware of 'our stuff' and they would also be interested.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Your statement that i bolded really just concludes the point that, the products that Jazzinc offers - you are not the market for. And when it comes to figures I have a friend that says the exact same thing, that they don't need a certain level of detail like Hot Toys, whereas I do, and they collect Marvel Legends and Necca figures. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just what somebody is looking for at a price they're willing to pay.

You keep acting like JazzInc somehow has it's own, humble little market that other collectors aren't part of.

If there is, and that very well may be the case, they're are a flea on a dogs ass in terms of a sustainable market for a $300+ 1/12 Batwing.

This isn't rocket science. This will not sell well with a JazzInc price tag attached to it imo. You can come up with all the excuses in the world why it MIGHT or COULD. But reality is gonna set in at some point.

 

[shadows]

One issue is trying to meet the needed numbers with a lower price which is significantly higher than the minimum needed for 1/6 hence, the kickstarter. What are the chances of a mostly 1/6 collector that bought the 1/6 batwing double dipping for a 1/12 version? The point of asking a 1/12 community is to draw in more people from the start. You're fine with this being $500 but guess what, Joost didn't see that with his 1/12 BvS batmobile. The video says it took him 5 years to sell 250 units only (he said 2 and a half hundred). You mentioned HT's the Bat as well which is still in-stock in HK. And HT has far more reach than Jazzinc. So much for catering a 1/12 vehicle to the 1/6 crowd with more budget.

Getting a good number of 1/12 crowd's support along with the right price are more essential than just expecting the small pool of 1/6 collectors to pony up the money. I referenced Tomy's 1/10 DeLorean campaign that reached 3 times its goal in one day. The $30 Neca crowd showed up for that $300 toy. So yeah, I think a lot of 1/12 collectors with less budget than 1/6 collectors will show up for this at $300. $500 highly unlikely but maybe the 1/6 crowd can buy doubles to meet the numbers if you're still willing to pay $500.

1. The majority of people who voted for the 1/12 Batwing in the closed group don't own the 1/6 Batwing, those that do represent a small group of buyers anyway. The 1/6 Batwing sold out in 2023 and less people knew about Jazzinc, and the 1/6 1989 Batmobile has just released so buyers want something a bit different, or have just discovered Jazzinc and have another chance at getting it in 1/12, or had sold their 1/6 and can now downsize.

2. I don't believe vehicles need anywhere near the numbers as figures do to make it make sense. As Joost always says, his prices are high because it needs to be spread over a certain amount of projected sales. If Hot Toys needs to sell a minimum of 5,000 units to break even, perhaps Jazzinc only needs to sell i dont know probably like 500 units of vehicles to break even.

 

[shadows]

You keep acting like JazzInc somehow has it's own, humble little market that other collectors aren't part of.

If there is, and that very well may be the case, they're are a flea on a dogs ass in terms of a sustainable market for a $300+ 1/12 Batwing.

This isn't rocket science. This will not sell well with a JazzInc price tag attached to it imo. You can come up with all the excuses in the world why it MIGHT or COULD. But reality is gonna set in at some point.

I never tried to say Jazzinc's customers aren't part other markets when clearly they are, a Jazzinc collector can buy Hot Toys, Mafex and vice versa. But you clearly said you would never pay over $300 for a 1/12 vehicle. Well, I don't think Jazzinc vehicles will be priced under $300 so you are not their market then.

Clearly, if they shrink down any of their 1/6 vehicles, you don't need that detail or the bells and whistles like you mentioned. You have other options like the 1/18 1989 Batmobile by Hot Wheels for under $200, for example. I'm not arguing with you saying the Batwing will sell well or not (i think it will sell well though), I'm simply saying 1/12 premium vehicles will sell relatively well vs 1/6 vehicles, and the price for 1/12 isn't that bad - $500 for me would be the limit i think.

It's the Jazzinc prices that will kill any chance of 1/12 collectors being very interested and it's the very few 1/6 collectors that are interested in 1/12 vehicles.

Yes, there are SOME from both camps. I do not believe there are enough of either, to make this a successful launch.

I personally don't need and am absolutely not interested in JazzInc level of detail, accuracy and features for a 1/12 vehicle. Because that just destroys the idea of getting any value from going the 1/12 route (cheaper).

There is no reality that exists where I am paying over $300 for a 1/12 scale vehicle.

Ever. For any reason. I'd wager I'm not alone on that. That I'm not the minority, but rather the majority opinion.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Well, I don't think Jazzinc vehicles will be priced under $300 so you are not their market then.

That's the point. I am the market. But that means little if they've priced themselves out of it. Which, coming full circle now, goes back to this not selling well.

There is no market for $400+ 1/12 scale vehicles. It doesn't exist.

 

[Bleah]

2. I don't believe vehicles need anywhere near the numbers as figures do to make it make sense. As Joost always says, his prices are high because it needs to be spread over a certain amount of projected sales. If Hot Toys needs to sell a minimum of 5,000 units to break even, perhaps Jazzinc only needs to sell i dont know probably like 500 units of vehicles to break even.

Lol! Go dig the forums or his videos. I remember him saying it was significantly higher especially for 1/12. Or ask him directly so you can stop assuming that $500 price for that 300 something votes to 500 units are enough for it to be financially viable. That's why he's putting it through kickstarter because he needs a lot of support for this to happen as the measly 1/6 numbers that missed out aren't enough.

 

[shadows]

Lol! Go dig the forums or his videos. I remember him saying it was significantly higher especially for 1/12. Or ask him directly so you can stop assuming that $500 price for that 300 something votes to 500 units are enough for it to be financially viable. That's why he's putting it through kickstarter because he needs a lot of support for this to happen as the measly 1/6 numbers that missed out aren't enough.

I'm sure it is a high number, you don't need to latch onto the 500 units, i just pulled the number out to say the number isnt as high as figures.

 

[shadows]

That's the point. I am the market. But that means little if they've priced themselves out of it. Which, coming full circle now, goes back to this not selling well.

There is no market for $400+ 1/12 scale vehicles. It doesn't exist.

Ok you are the market, so you actually do want detailed, and features but don't want to pay the price required for it? The price you want is quality of a 1/6 shrunken down but costing not much more than the McFarlane Flash $200 Batwing. Make it make sense. i don't believe Jazzinc are ripping us off charging $300-$500, that's just the price is has to be for it to make business sense for them.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Ok you are the market, so you actually do want detailed, and features but don't want to pay the price required for it? The price you want is quality of a 1/6 shrunken down but costing not much more than the McFarlane Flash $200 Batwing. Make it make sense. i don't believe Jazzinc are ripping us off charging $300-$500, that's just the price is has to be for it to make business sense for them.

They're not ripping off anyone but just because they make and offer something doesn't mean the market for it is just gonna magically materialize out of thin air for it either.

GL gettin many people to pay $400/$500 for a 1/12 Batwing. You're gonna need it. Because it ain't gonna happen.

 

[shadows]

They're not ripping off anyone but just because they make and offer something doesn't mean the market for it is just gonna magically materialize out of thin air for it either.

GL gettin many people to pay $400/$500 for a 1/12 Batwing. You're gonna need it. Because it ain't gonna happen.

I don't need the luck I'm not working for Jazzinc, I'm just pleased we have options now. Im sure you'll eat your words when you see there are people who will pay that price on kickstarter. And lastly you have other options! go find a cheaper model kit or whatever. At least you admit they're not ripping us off, because you know with the costs involved it can't be cheap like you desire it to be.

 

[shadows]

So we're not going round in circles. We can all agree something is expensive because this hobby. But your expectation and the value of the product should be aligned. Jazzinc has a certain price point because 1) they position themselves as a high end collectible company, and 2) they lack economies of scale which is the main driver of their high price tag. Jazzinc would never make something that is 10x better than a McFarlane and price it the same/near as one.

Ask yourself what are you looking for in the item? If it's a simply representation of a figure/vehicle, then why do you demand elite and have it be cheap. If you want the best of the best, and all the bells and whistles, then of course it's going to be priced accordingly.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

So we're not going round in circles. We can all agree something is expensive because this hobby. But your expectation and the value of the product should be aligned. Jazzinc has a certain price point because 1) they position themselves as a high end collectible company, and 2) they lack economies of scale which is the main driver of their high price tag. Jazzinc would never make something that is 10x better than a McFarlane and price it the same/near as one.

Ask yourself what are you looking for in the item? If it's a simply representation of a figure/vehicle, then why do you demand elite and have it be cheap. If you want the best of the best, and all the bells and whistles, then of course it's going to be priced accordingly.

Lol.

Nobody is denying what they'd offer is the best.

Nobody is denying it would cost what it costs.

You're just refusing to acknowledge the market they're aiming at and how that market is in no way interested in paying that price for the best.

But hey, maybe I'll indeed eat these words, as you say. Guess we'll see.

 

[shadows]

Lol.

Nobody is denying what they'd offer is the best.

Nobody is denying it would cost what it costs.

You're just refusing to acknowledge the market they're aiming at and how that market is in no way interested in paying that price for the best.

But hey, maybe I'll indeed eat these words, as you say. Guess we'll see.

Ok let me address this now. At the lowest price, it’s probably $300, would you pay that for this 1/12 Batwing? If not, what’s your ideal price, and would you be ok if they had to cut some corners and not give you the same detail, high quality material, etc?

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Ok let me address this now. At the lowest price, it’s probably $300, would you pay that for this 1/12 Batwing? If not, what’s your ideal price, and would you be ok if they had to cut some corners and not give you the same detail, high quality material, etc?

$300 tops and even then, nah. Not for something getting hung up in the top corner of a room that I'm staring at from feet below.

But that's just me. I don't require any 1/12 vehicle to look as sharp and detailed as a Jazz 1/6 Batmobile.

But I'd pay no more than $300 if I did want it of that quality, personally.

 

[shadows]

$300 tops and even then, nah. Not for something getting hung up in the top corner of a room that I'm staring at from feet below.

But that's just me. I don't require any 1/12 vehicle to look as sharp and detailed as a Jazz 1/6 Batmobile.

But I'd pay no more than $300 if I did want it of that quality, personally.

Yeah Jazzinc or any other company can’t make high quality bells and whistles for less than $300 I’d gather, which is good for you because you don’t need sharp and detailed. You can be in the market for other brands.

I would pay over that for exact version of their 1989 Batmobile but in 1/12 though, I wouldn’t buy their 1/12 Batwing because I already have committed to the 1/6 Batwing.