Les' backlog situation (for the uninitiated)

[SovereignStudio]

Les (or anyone else), I have just one polite question (not sure if discussed already) about your back-log specifically Hicks:

You said you'd commence working on the Hicks heads in March 2008. Why was it then that you started the Joker heads including your own (and any other subsequent comissions) before the Hicks heads were complete thus delaying them further? The Dark Knight figs didn't even come out till about Sept 2008. I was just under the impression from the start that once you started you wuoldnt stop?

PS glad you're on the mend.

Les works the same way I do. He loves what he does, and he's always doing something. When you're doing a run of something you need to step back now and then and take a break or you'll start doing really crap work. It's a weird thing that happens when you stare at the same thing over and over for too long, similar to what the military calls thousand yard stare. When you take these brief one or two day breaks you can sit around and do nothing, or you can do something else. For guys like Les and I the answer is do something else. That's when we work on future projects and personal stuff. I wish the breaks weren't necessary but they are. You can try to skip them, but you'll see the quality of your work gradually slipping. It's like sleep. Sometimes, your brain just needs to reboot or least shift gears.

 

[MaulFan]

Oh right, my bad. I thought I saw pics of a load of painted Joker heads once but I do know he did custom his own HT Joker fig.

You did see a photo of many joker heads, but those were just unpainted castings.

Les is offering 3 paint job and hair variations of that head and has yet to unveil his third scheme, so people haven't even committed to which style they want.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Well said Shawn, and exactly true. Variety can keep an artist on his toes with his work and help keep us from cutting corners and our work becoming stale. It's a necessary evil to make sure the work is always up to par.

 

[nicky]

I did some checking back and yes, what you guys said makes sense now. I can understand why Les only wanted to do 12 Hicks heads - doing too many would be boring and he'd probably "fall asleep" on the job so to speak.

And yeah, it must have been the pics of the unpainted Jokers that got me thinking though I'm pretty sure some people have put orders in?

 

[MaulFan]

And yeah, it must have been the pics of the unpainted Jokers that got me thinking though I'm pretty sure some people have put orders in?

Well people have ordered the head, but they haven't confirmed which of his 3 looks to it they want theirs to be, at least some anyway, because they want to see all 3 before committing to one.

 

[aussieinnyc]

This has come up again in Les' photo/update thread, and so as not to derail that I'm going to post here.

What I keep hearing time and time again is that customs are Les' sole source of income, and that is being used as a justification for why he continued/continues to take on commissions, and payment, for work he arguably must have known would continue to be harder and harder (as the backlog increased) to deliver. Yet at the same time I'm also hearing about how he has had a bad year personally, and that has to be taken in to account. I'm sorry (and that's not rhetoric, I am indeed sorry to hear of all the troubles that he's had), but you just can't have it both ways. If his business is customs, as people say, then we've got to be able to respond to this as a business that is not supplying product without being told to "have a heart". I know that he has been a great friend to many on this board, but in dealing with a business there must come a point where we divorce ourselves from sentiment.

I'll say it again, many people have had a bad year. I personally lost my job in New York thanks to the economy, and because of the resulting change in my visa status had to move from the city I love most in the world, where all my friends are, halfway around the world back to Sydney where I no longer knew anyone, had no place to live, and no guarantee of being able to find work anyway. Thankfully I have landed back on my feet, have found work and am beginning to make new friends, but I would never, and should never, be allowed to use my personal troubles as excuses for not paying my debts. The money of mine that Les has had for the last six months would have come in very handy to be able to go towards the considerable debt that is created when you have to completely uproot your life and move to another country. At most, so far he has provided $5 or $6 worth of resin to cast a head, and it bothers me that the rest of my money is currently effectively "lost". I won't be asking for a refund since I know Les doesn't have it to give, but to return to my previous point - if this is indeed his only source of income, his business, that answer and the no refund policy becomes unacceptable.

I know I will eventually get the product, but there is nothing to stop life interfering for Les again and he will only be left with more customers who have paid for goods that are not being delivered. I truly hope that will not happen for him, since he seems a great guy. But being a great guy just isn't enough when conducting a business.

 

[galactiboy]

I know I will eventually get the product, but there is nothing to stop life interfering for Les again and he will only be left with more customers who have paid for goods that are not being delivered. I truly hope that will not happen for him, since he seems a great guy. But being a great guy just isn't enough when conducting a business.

And if it does interfere than we wait. These are the sole income for some customizers, but even so I have a respect (not saying you don't) for the customizers I work with and because of that I don't let the business side of it interfere. I know that when I send money I will get a product back, but I also know it will take time. Sometimes its a quick turn around, other times not so quick. The frustration is understandable if you aren't aware of these things; but I was and I also personally like Les, Josh and Shawn (the 3 I've gotten things from) and I put more of a value on their well being than the money I send them.

So if Les needs to take care of himself, I'd rather he do that then burn out or neglect his family responsibilities.

 

[King Darkness]

There is clear line in the sand of people who consider Les a friend and are making the just allowances that friends do for one another. Over looking, or looking past the lag time between payment and fulfillment, taking into account what Les has been through in the last year.

On the other side of the fence there are the people who have entered in a strictly business relationship with Les. Though they may in fact understand and appreciate Les' hardship they expected, justly or not, that they would receive their pre payed for items in a more timely manner.

Its a bad situation for all involved. For Les who is at the center of all this,whos reputation is at stake, for his friends who have jumped to his defense and for those who feel frustrated with Les and just want what they have payed for.

I just hope for Les' sake all is worked out and that he suffers no damage to his mighty reputation.

Les is a friend and I wish him nothing but the best, and hope everyone can hold out and be as patient and understanding as possible.

 

[The Josh]

There is clear line in the sand of people who consider Les a friend and are making the just allowances that friends do for one another. Over looking, or looking past the lag time between payment and fulfillment, taking into account what Les has been through in the last year.

On the other side of the fence there are the people who have entered in a strictly business relationship with Les. Though they may in fact understand and appreciate Les' hardship they expected, justly or not, that they would receive their pre payed for items in a more timely manner.

Its a bad situation for all involved. For Les who is at the center of all this,whos reputation is at stake, for his friends who have jumped to his defense and for those who feel frustrated with Les and just want what they have payed for.

I just hope for Les' sake all is worked out and that he suffers no damage to his mighty reputation.

Les is a friend and I wish him nothing but the best, and hope everyone can hold out and be as patient and understanding as possible.

Well put King.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Yeah, bad situation for all involved. I can understand the reasoning for continuing preorders if this is the primary means for wage making, but on the flip side, if its the means of income then I imagine that to achieve $1000, $2000, or $3000 income a month means over 20, 40, or 60 $50 items are being made, that doesn't even include costs.

Now with a back log, thats becoming those 20, 40, 60 whatever PLUS the back log. I've been in situations where I was forced to stop working on something and the back log built up. It can take a REALLY LONG TIME to catch up and cover the current inflow.

My exit strategy for this? Effective immediately, I double my prices.

A $50 item is now $100. I take the $50 upfront to cover the necessary revenue, but when I finish the project, I collect the other half. This way, hopefully, the current cash flow stays the same and the workload returns to a managable level.

 

[BlindVoyeur]

Usually I stay out of things like this but as I too concider Les and friend and am a custom artist as well I just wanted to add to this. I am as impatient as anybody else which is the main reason I hardly sleep when I am doing a new project. The black and white of it all is that everything everyone is posting is correct. Yes Les has had the year from hell (or the year of lost mojo) Yes people have had to wait longer than promised. This argument can go on forever and both sides have a perfectly good point. BUT here is the issue. Who wins? What can you do about it? I know that some of you are frustrated but even if you come here and rail him about it, tommorow when you go to the mailbox it won't magically be there. The friends that are coming to his defense are not making excuses for him, they are simply asking that you hold on just a little more. I spoke to Les very briefly today to give him a quick update on something and he was painting away and I was like cool I'll let you get back to it. As for this being like a business yes that is true to a point but the problem with that is it is very hard to paint something or anything artistic if you're just not into it or feeling it. That alone could be just as damaging to ship a faulty product just to get it out. Les is a grown man and he is perfectly capable of defending his self and his work so Im not going to come here and preach for him, but you will get your items, yes it sucks that they are so far over due, yes it couldn't really be helped and yes one day real soon all this will be over and great new things are on the horizon.
The night is darkest just before the dawn…

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[ProgMatinee]

I agree there isn't really a winner in this and you can't magically correct the situation for anyone currently involved. That is why my recommendation is to limit the # of new people getting involved, yet maintain the income...raise prices. Assure that you have new income, but that its at a managable quantity and that your time is being fairly compensated.

 

[aussieinnyc]

I get what all of you are saying, I really do. I was aware going into it of all the restrictions, etc (ie no refunds, could possibly take some time, etc). I wasn't aware of just how impressive the backlog had become, and probably placed a little too much faith in the projected delivery of 2 - 3 months, but that's my own fault. At the moment I'm just writing it off as a bad investment. I really just wanted to address those who are calling for patience and understanding purely on the grounds of their existing relationship with Les and say that it's unfair and unreasonable to expect all of us, who don't necessarily have that personal relationship, to "just be understanding" without some hope of the problems being redressed.

And Ryan, I totally understand that forcing creativity is not fun. I spent many years working in the arts and am very aware of the process. But I come back to the statement that, if this is your career, sometimes you've just gotta suck it up and force it out, just find that inspiration somewhere. I know a number of artists and performers who make their daily living doing this, and the excuse of "I'm just not feeling it today" would lead them very quickly to looking for a new job.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Great points from everyone, I think you all have stated some real truth in the statements you've all made. It's really tough to find any sort of solution to this whole ordeal.

I, myself, have been just as bad with the business end of this as Les... So I understand a bit where he is at. And my customers are in similar boats as other artists.. It's scary really.. Nobody wants to be there. But we've put ourselves in this situation, so the blame rests on us.

I'm glad to see so much positive discussion on it though, I think it helps us all... artists and customers to share.

 

[MaulFan]

I really just wanted to address those who are calling for patience and understanding purely on the grounds of their existing relationship with Les and say that it's unfair and unreasonable to expect all of us, who don't necessarily have that personal relationship, to "just be understanding" without some hope of the problems being redressed.

There's a flip side of that which the non-close people need to understand.

Yes, most of us speaking out on Les' behalf are close to him and know him as a friend, but that is what we're trying to open up to you folks as well.

I understand that members at this board and eBay, etc. have been known to do shady business, and most of the time there's no legitimate excuse and it's just that the person was shady.

What we're appealing to you folks and trying to help you to understand since you aren't close friends, is to remember that while Les does buisness through SSF, he's also a person, a member, and artist, someone to befriend, he's not a corporation, he's not some big outfit, he's just one man with a gift that people at this board have had the privilege of hiring to improve their collectibles.

We, Les' close friends, are like his ambassadors to this board amidst all the chaos of his life and in his absence from the net due to computer problems. We are vouching for Les and his motives. We see his customers here, concerned about their investments, worried about not getting their money's worth, whatever your grievance, and we are relaying Les' thoughts and trying hard to let you guys in on what's going on.

When we plea for you to be understanding, I don't think we're being unfair and are in fact just looking for human decency. We get so caught up in our own lives or whatever and it's hard to see or care about the troubles of others, but the world will fall apart if we ignore our brothers and sisters in it. We are trying to get you to calm a bit with your frustrations from the business transaction side of the matter, trust in us and Les when we say you will get your items, and open yourselves to see and care that you're dealing with a human being who's been dealing with a lot of stuff, even more than gets posted around here because he's got right to privacy, and probably even more than the close friends even hear about, and it's creating obstacles, but instead of saying ^^^^ it to you guys, he's giving up time and other things in committment to finishing his work for you. Stuff's late, ok, but it will get done, just try to understand you're not dealing with some eBay scammer or some shady person here, you're dealing with someone who has many close friends on this board that know him well and he's done business with many others that know the quality of his and his reliability and know that your delays right now are out of his hands and that being late getting stuff to you guys is stressful on him and eating him up and he's slaving to be done.

Basically, trust in us, Les' friends, and Les himself that you will indeed get your pieces, and have patience and understanding. Everyone can come out of this whole situation a winner if everyone can just understand where one another is coming from and be accommodating.

 

[nicky]

If his business is customs, as people say, then we've got to be able to respond to this as a business that is not supplying product without being told to "have a heart".

I think what alot of waiting customers are trying to say is that they have to draw the line somewhere (by speaking up) and if a year later is not the time then when is? You cant expect customers who already fulfilled their part of the deal by paying a year ago to keep waiting forever or even without an ETA, no matter what you tell them. People keep saying to be patient but they have been patient for a year after being told the same things throughout and its now starting to wear thin. Patience does run out eventually or at least concerns will be voiced.

Yes, Les has had some probs but he is also a business man and I dont think anyone would be so patient and lenient if they got this level of service from Sideshow themselves or even a restaurant, right? What would you think if someone like Sideshow or a waiter in a restaurant told you to "have a heart, he's had a bad year, you dont get it" cos the chef had probs?

The Hicks guys dont know Les personally so how can they have blind faith that he will deliver? - to those guys he is just a business (as he and others have confirmed) so why should he be treated differently? The Hicks guys arent familiar with his abilities. Yes, Les has probs but that will inevitabley only cover him for so long and a year is plenty already. A line must be drawn somewhere and you just cant keep feeding people with the default response, "have a heart, he has probs." That's insulting to paying customers. Again, imagine telling that to customers in a restaurant.

 

[nicky]

We are vouching for Les and his motives. We are relaying Les' thoughts and trying hard to let you guys in on what's going on.

I ordered a head and that's partyly my main gripe:

Yes, Les has had probs but some of us Hicks guys didnt even know that...we had to come here and read all this to know that. Why should we chase him up? Les never PM'd any of us 12 guys to tell us the delays - he just left it to us to chase him up. I never even used to come on this forum that often at all and only started to do so just to find out what was happening. Les (or someone like his friends) at least should have thought to email us like a professional business-man.

Not everyone looks on these boards all the time nor do we all have time to sift thru all the 100s of posts on his customs thread - it would have been courteous to let us know and make sure we knew by contacting us directly. Alot of us are new to this comissions thing.

 

[pixletwin]

Any customizers who are behind I have one thing to say:

 

[DarkArtist81]

It's understandable to have that feeling, Nicky.... And trust me.. Les understands that. He doesn't want to let his customers down, and he feels like he has. And you guys have 100% legitimate concerns... You guys are entitled to the ability to speak up about it, and Les knows that as well.

So just understand that Les knows he was in the wrong for how things went down, and he feels that mistake with 10% more stress per person that is waiting. It really is weighing down on him. He understands.

 

[DarkArtist81]

I ordered a head and that's partyly my main gripe:

Yes, Les has had probs but some of us Hicks guys didnt even know that...we had to come here and read all this to know that. Why should we chase him up? Les never PM'd any of us 12 guys to tell us the delays - he just left it to us to chase him up. I never even used to come on this forum that often at all and only started to do so just to find out what was happening. Les (or someone like his friends) at least should have thought to email us like a professional business-man. Not everyone looks on these boards all the time and it would have been courteous to let us know and make sure we knew by contacting us directly.

As for this... I can say as well as Les... the sheer number of orders we have, it would be detrimental to our forward progress in painting to PM every one of our customers weekly or monthly with status updates. It even gets hard to PM friends back with answers to basic questions. There just isn't time for that. Being a one person operation sucks in that regard, we don't have staff to PM people and inform all of our customers regarding their items.

So Les and I both just give status updates in our thread... or if we get a PM or email we will respond seperately. But I know I spend at least an hour a day, sometimes 2 or 3 just answering messages and giving a status update here. If I did more, I would never paint.