LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[Darth Caedus]

Give you guys my $0.02,

As for the people who are now on the island even though they weren't initially on the plane. What if the chick with Said somehow was touching him when the flash near the plane happened??? (assuming it was a flash) We have been shown that whatever the losties are holding onto makes the journey with them. What if the chick was grabbing Said when the flash happened to stop him from doing something???

As for Aaron not being on the plane, didn't they say that they wanted to get the flight as NEAR as possible to the original flight as they could. Maybe they didn't need it to be 100% accurate, but as accurate as possibly. Aaron wasn't born then, so maybe he wasn't needed. Jack is his blood, so maybe he counted for himself and Aaron.

I do think that the island stopped time flashing during the 70s Dharma invasion of the island. Ben's going to have to hide himself before he kills them off. Wouldn't it be interesting if BEN killed himself, took his own place, and then proceeded with the plan to kill off the Dharma group.

I think it's an interesting theory that Desmond was the one who beat up Ben. We don't know where he or Ben went and it could fit into the timeline. Ben wanted to fulfill his threat to Widmore saying that he would kill his daughter. I don't want it to be true, but if she's dead, maybe Desmond somehow got on the plane, or wants to get back to the island for revenge

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I LOVE Ben kneeling before John...AWESOME

 

[The Ween]

I'm thinking that they will be stuck in the Dharma 70s until Aaron is returned to the island.

I'd forgotten about Ben's mom dying - that was a nice touch - he can't help lying.

You have to wonder if he had a step mom, and who she was.

 

[The Ween]

Give you guys my $0.02,

As for the people who are now on the island even though they weren't initially on the plane. What if the chick with Said somehow was touching him when the flash near the plane happened??? (assuming it was a flash) We have been shown that whatever the losties are holding onto makes the journey with them. What if the chick was grabbing Said when the flash happened to stop him from doing something???

As for Aaron not being on the plane, didn't they say that they wanted to get the flight as NEAR as possible to the original flight as they could. Maybe they didn't need it to be 100% accurate, but as accurate as possibly. Aaron wasn't born then, so maybe he wasn't needed. Jack is his blood, so maybe he counted for himself and Aaron.

I do think that the island stopped time flashing during the 70s Dharma invasion of the island. Ben's going to have to hide himself before he kills them off. Wouldn't it be interesting if BEN killed himself, took his own place, and then proceeded with the plan to kill off the Dharma group.

I think it's an interesting theory that Desmond was the one who beat up Ben. We don't know where he or Ben went and it could fit into the timeline. Ben wanted to fulfill his threat to Widmore saying that he would kill his daughter. I don't want it to be true, but if she's dead, maybe Desmond somehow got on the plane, or wants to get back to the island for revenge

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I LOVE Ben kneeling before John...AWESOME

I don't think that's Ben. It's Ben's voice, but he says that before John leaves the island.

 

[Darth Caedus]

I don't think that's Ben. It's Ben's voice, but he says that before John leaves the island.

Maybe it's Jack's Daddy talking and aiding him all the way to the end? Or Widmore, he seems to think that John is important, meeting him in the past and now the present

Just had a little thought. Locke was talking to the person that was guarding Said. What if the losties landed in the 70s Dharma timeline, but Locke and the rest of the 316 passengers land in the Present 2007 timeline???

 

[Moonloop]

Aaron wasn't born then, so maybe he wasn't needed. Jack is his blood, so maybe he counted for himself and Aaron.

I think Kate possibly being pregnant (from the night before with Jack ), counts as Claire being pregnant with the embryo "being" Aaron.

Here is a very thoughtful and interesting theory I read as to why they needed to recreate the situation as best they could (from the lostpedia boards) :

"In my opinion, the island does not perceive one moment in time as different from any other. It sees the past, present and future as one, ever-existing landscape in a way sort of similar to how the Tralfamadorians see it in Slaughterhouse Five. For the purposes of this theory, I’m referring to whatever entity that is causing events to unfold (ie. the island, God, fate, Jacob, or whatever) as the island.

Because, from the island’s perspective, there isn’t a specific time when events happen, the island is constantly re-creating events that have happened or will happen (although, to people, who see time in a linear fashion, these events will occur in a set order). To the island, it doesn’t matter when because, in essence, there is no when. It recognizes an event and the elements that make up an event, but time is not a factor. As a result, anytime the elements necessary for an event are present, there is the possibility that the island will try to create (or re-create) that event. The more elements of the event that are present, the higher the possibility that the island recognizes the situation.

A good example of this is Locke and his frequent leg injuries. The island recognizes Locke and the fact that he has injured or lost use of his legs. It recognizes situations where there is potential for that injury and re-creates it. Sometimes it re-creates it more similarly than other times based on various elements that may or may not be present (because the island does not see time linearly, the injury it is trying to re-create may or may not be when John became paralyzed. For all we know, it could be trying to re-create Ethan shooting Locke or John breaking his leg falling into the room with the frozen donkey wheel.) This explains why Locke loses use of his leg during Deus Ex Machina despite the severity of his injury not really jiving with how effected he was by it. He can’t walk because the island recognizes the situation in the same way it recognizes him getting shot or falling from the window (I haven’t made up my mind on whether I think it views on and off island events in the same manner, but Michael being unable to kill himself seems to be evidence that the island’s will can be carried out anywhere, so I tend to lean that way).

This brings me to Ajira flight 316. Re-creating the original flight creates the possibility of the island recognizing the event and, thus, makes it possible for the plane to crash on the island. The more similar the two flights are, the more likely it is for the island to recognize it. It's entirely possible to find the island even if the two flights are dissimilar, it's just far less probably. As a result, there doesn't have to be a proxy for everybody and not everyone needs to be on the flight, but the more that there are, the better the chances of success. This explains Hawking's seemingly surprising willingness to accept Ben's smaller group of Losties saying, “it will have to do,” even after she had earlier insisted on having all of them. She knows it hurts their chances, but it’s still possible and is better than nothing.

There doesn't need to be a proxy for everyone and many people could simply just be themselves. The island recognizes that Locke is on the plane. It also recognizes that there is a body in the coffin on the plane. Sure, it would be better if the body in the coffin was Christian, but there are still plenty of similarities. Similarly, it recognizes that Kate, a marshal (who is also a female officer), a prisoner, and Sayid are on board. Even though it would be better if the marshal were accompanying Kate and if Ana Lucia were on the flight, it still gives the island many similar elements from flight 815 to recognize.

Like Locke’s injuries, the results of the island re-creating an event may vary from the original event. The more dissimilar flight 316 is from flight 815, the more dissimilar the result will be. For example, Jack winds up lying on his back in the jungle, Kate and Hurley survive, something whacky and ghostlike happens to the body in the coffin (I’m assuming here, but I think it’s a safe assumption), etc. However, there may also be many differences. Kate and Hurley end up in the water by the waterfall instead of their original locations. Maybe there is no group of tail-section survivors (or maybe, as some theorize, the plane doesn’t crash at all), maybe one of the O6 dies. We don’t know what the differences are yet, but I’m sure there are plenty. Had they been able to more faithfully re-create the flight, the end results would have been more similar."

 

[barryo]

any idea of what kind of timeline of the 70's dharma era it would be that the show ended on?........i've got this weird feeling that jin is going to have a more american accent when he talks to jack & co. i question this because im wondering how long it would have taken them to integrate into the dharma group and reach a point where they would trust outsiders enough "hire" them, let alone carry a gun........a year or so from when Rousseau's group first landed on the beach???............

 

[Giant Chicken]

I'm on the other side of the fence with the kid issue, if they are going on a plane they think is going to crash on some crazy ass island why would they bring the offspring? Unless you're talking about them being willing to leave their kids in order to go said crazy ass island from whence they may not return.

I totally understand Sun not wanting to take the kid to the island. I just feel that a mother would choose her baby over her spouse.

I do not have kids. If I did, I would much rather my wife stay behind with our child rather than leave our child behind. I just hope and pray that I am never in Jin and Sun's shoes

 

[plasmid303]

Locke is Dorothy. Jack needs to get back to Oz, hence the shoes. Neat reference if it was intentional.

 

[Agent0028]

Wouldn't surprise me if it was given Ben originally claimed to be Henry Gale who got to the island via balloon.

I got what y'all are saying about leaving the kiddies behind. I think you're right, it'd be one thing if they knew they were going to survive, but who knows with that island. They barely survived the first time.

 

[Entropy]

Here is a very thoughtful and interesting theory I read as to why they needed to recreate the situation as best they could (from the lostpedia boards) :

It's interesting but doesn't hold water for me.


And I didn't pick up on the Ruby Slippers vibe but there have been other nice, "off to see the wizard" references. And if anyone is Dorthy, it's Jack.
While I wouldn't consider him a static character, Locke hasn't had a very dramatic arc, just some growing pains learning to be a leader.

 

[Giant Chicken]

They could add a lot of drama if Jin hooked up with some Darhma chick while Sun was away... just a random thought.

 

[Darthrazz]

I think that Ben got beat up by Desmond,not because he tried to kill Penny, but because he tried to/or succeeded at kidnapping either Penny or her child and at some point has them brought to the Island. In order to get Desmond back on the Island. Just my thoughts.

 

[FlyAndFight]

Ok, I'm throwing a couple of theories out there. Not sure if they've come up before but let me know if they make sense or if I'm off because of something I missed:

1. The series of numbers that Desmond (and others) had to type into the computer had to be entered continuously because it somehow kept the island in the same location. (be it in time and/or geographically.) I know that Eloise said that the Lampost worked in figuring out where the island "would be", but I still don't trust her fully...

2. Kate left Aaron with Eloise Hawking. Eloise may have told her that Aaron was in danger and the safest place was with her. Also, since Aaron was born on the island and technically not a passenger per se, there was the possibility that he would not be spared if the plane were to crash. Claire's mom is too obvious and why would Kate not tell Jack if that were the case?

3. Here's a real wacky one. Noo one can technically "return" to the island as themselves but can if they are acting as a "proxy" for someone else. Notice how they each represented another person from the original flight:

Hurley = Charlie
Locke = Christian
Sayid = Kate
Kate = Claire
Ben = Hurley & Charlie (showed up late like Hurley, barely making the flight. Went to the front of the airplane prior to the "event", like Charlie did...)

It would also explain why Eloise stated that they had to recreate as close as possible the original flight. Could it also be the definition of being someone's "constant"?...

4. Jin ends up beings Charlotte's father! Remember that Charlotte spoke Korean. Remember that she and her mother lived on the island before. Her father was a mystery. Jin and the gang appear to be back on the island circa the 1970's.

5. Ray, Jack's supposed Grandfather is NOT his Grandfather. He's "Jack" from the future! He acted very strangely and perhaps was simply "guiding" younger Jack, helping him to do what needed to be done, since he had already been there. Remember that he didn't offer Jack any help. He only said, "sure" when Jack asked to keep the shoes. So technically he didn't try to influence the past/present/future... eh... well, you know what I mean...

6. Hurley purchased roughly 70 seats on the flight. What could the reason be? To save 70 people from possible death? I don't know, but he didn't seem to care about the several strangers that did have seats on the airplane. I think that whoever told him to go on the flight (Charlie?) also told him to make sure that x-amount of people were on the flight, once again, in order to recreate the original flight's passenger count as close as possible.

7. EDIT: Just thought of this one. The plane never "crashes". Remember that there was the old "flash of bright light" on the plane and Jack, Hurley and Kate find themselves on the island, supposedly back in 1970-ish with Jin. So they basically vanish from the plane but the plane ends up landing fine on the island in it's present time!!! That would save Frank Lapidus, Ben and the other two new characters (Said and Sayid's escort.)

Sorry but as I wrote these, I kept coming up with another one!

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Agent0028]

Ok, I'm throwing a couple of theories out there. Not sure if they've come up before but let me know if they make sense or if I'm off because of something I missed:

1. The series of numbers that Desmond (and others) had to type into the computer had to be entered continuously because it somehow kept the island in the same location. (be it in time and/or geographically.) I know that Eloise said that the Lampost worked in figuring out where the island "would be", but I still don't trust her fully....

That's what I thought, but then someone pointed out the light is different (white during time jumps, and purple when the numbers weren't entered) and I think there was another difference. But that doesn't mean that the numbers kept the island in the same place, maybe it did move when the plane crashed and then again when they didn't push the button, and when Ben moved it it started jumping sporadically.

3. Here's a real wacky one. Noo one can technically "return" to the island as themselves but can if they are acting as a "proxy" for someone else. Notice how they each represented another person from the original flight:

Hurley = Charlie
Locke = Christian
Sayid = Kate
Kate = Claire
Ben = Hurley & Charlie (showed up late like Hurley, barely making the flight. Went to the front of the airplane prior to the "event", like Charlie did...)

How was Hurley substituting Charlie? I can't remember enough about the original crash. Also who would Jack be replacing? And how does Kate replace Claire?

4. Jin ends up beings Charlotte's father! Remember that Charlotte spoke Korean. Remember that she and her mother lived on the island before. Her father was a mystery. Jin and the gang appear to be back on the island circa the 1970's.

That's an awesome theory.

6. Hurley purchased roughly 70 seats on the flight. What could the reason be? To save 70 people from possible death? I don't know, but he didn't seem to care about the several strangers that did have seats on the airplane. I think that whoever told him to go on the flight (Charlie?) also told him to make sure that x-amount of people were on the flight, once again, in order to recreate the original flight's passenger count as close as possible.

My assumption was that it was to save those people from being on the plane. There really wasn't much he could do about the other people on the plane. I think if it was to recreate the number of passengers Ben would have taken care of it. Plus as I said I don't remember much about the original crash, but I think the plane was relatively full where this flight looked pretty empty to me.

 

[Moonloop]

1. The series of numbers that Desmond (and others) had to type into the computer had to be entered continuously because it somehow kept the island in the same location. (be it in time and/or geographically.) I know that Eloise said that the Lampost worked in figuring out where the island "would be", but I still don't trust her fully...

I never thought of that, very clever and it seems very plausible. And we know there are many reasons for keeping it in one place.

2. Kate left Aaron with Eloise Hawking. Eloise may have told her that Aaron was in danger and the safest place was with her. Also, since Aaron was born on the island and technically not a passenger per se, there was the possibility that he would not be spared if the plane were to crash. Claire's mom is too obvious and why would Kate not tell Jack if that were the case?

Interesting.......I still am confused about what happened to Aaron and I haven't seen any theories yet that make sense to me or are plausible based on what we saw in the show (but there weren't enough clues as to Aaron's whereabouts).

3. Here's a real wacky one. Noo one can technically "return" to the island as themselves but can if they are acting as a "proxy" for someone else. Notice how they each represented another person from the original flight:

Hurley = Charlie
Locke = Christian
Sayid = Kate
Kate = Claire
Ben = Hurley & Charlie (showed up late like Hurley, barely making the flight. Went to the front of the airplane prior to the "event", like Charlie did...)

It would also explain why Eloise stated that they had to recreate as close as possible the original flight. Could it also be the definition of being someone's "constant"?...

Not wacky at all, I think that is true. I posted someone else's theory about this, that they need to recreate the event as close as possible in order for the island to "grab" them.

4. Jin ends up beings Charlotte's father! Remember that Charlotte spoke Korean. Remember that she and her mother lived on the island before. Her father was a mystery. Jin and the gang appear to be back on the island circa the 1970's.

Hmmm....wow, I don't know what to think of that one; if it is true. Did Jin not want Sun to return to the island because he knew what was going to happen? And the last thing he wanted was for Sun to see him with another woman?

5. Ray, Jack's supposed Grandfather is NOT his Grandfather. He's "Jack" from the future! He acted very strangely and perhaps was simply "guiding" younger Jack, helping him to do what needed to be done, since he had already been there. Remember that he didn't offer Jack any help. He only said, "sure" when Jack asked to keep the shoes. So technically he didn't try to influence the past/present/future... eh... well, you know what I mean...

Now this one confuses me, so Jack is in two places at once......a physical interaction between younger Jack and older Jack on normal soil (not the island where I consider the time encounters believable). That is interesting, his granddad did act strange....but if Jack knew and recognized him as his granddad and if it is Jack....then wouldn't that mean that older Jack has been around younger Jack almost his whole life? And wouldn't Christian have seen his father as his father and not Jack......I don't really see this theory playing out. I do agree there is something strange about Jack's granddad, but I do not think it is Jack from the future.

6. Hurley purchased roughly 70 seats on the flight. What could the reason be? To save 70 people from possible death? I don't know, but he didn't seem to care about the several strangers that did have seats on the airplane. I think that whoever told him to go on the flight (Charlie?) also told him to make sure that x-amount of people were on the flight, once again, in order to recreate the original flight's passenger count as close as possible.

To be precise he bought 78 seats, I don't think the number has any significance but I believe it is obvious that he bought the tickets so no one else would be in danger. Plus it was something THEY needed to do and they did not want others to be there or get involved. But as we saw, there were what...2 other people that got a ticket (could be Ben's people or just random people).

7. EDIT: Just thought of this one. The plane never "crashes". Remember that there was the old "flash of bright light" on the plane and Jack, Hurley and Kate find themselves on the island, supposedly back in 1970-ish with Jin. So they basically vanish from the plane but the plane ends up landing fine on the island in it's present time!!! That would save Frank Lapidus, Ben and the other two new characters (Said and Sayid's escort.)

This is what I also believe, the survivors were basically teleported from the plane back into the island. I am not sure what happened to the plane but it might have landed on the Island safely (giving them an option to leave when needed). People mention the Ajira water bottles being found on the island. That could be one of many things: when the survivors teleported they were holding water bottles which teleported with them as they were physically holding it....or what I see as more believable is that they found where the plane landed, took some water before they headed out to find Sawyer, Jin, etc.

How was Hurley substituting Charlie? I can't remember enough about the original crash. Also who would Jack be replacing? And how does Kate replace Claire?

I think Jack is just Jack. Hurley has the guitar case, reminiscent of Charlie. And Kate got it on with Jack the night before the flight....possibly getting pregnant and then going on the flight. Claire was pregnant when she was on the flight.

 

[Agent0028]

Kate being pregnant seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

 

[Sick Boy 82]

What was up with Jin with really long hair and being in the mint working Dharma truck??

 

[Agent0028]

The prevailing theory is that the island stopped time jumping during the time the Dharma initiative is on the island. As for the long hair, I think its been two or three years since the Oceanic Six left the island so that's plenty of time for Jin to start wearing his hair longer. Not to mention possibly fathering Charlotte according to FlyandFight's theory. Of course how much time the island spent time hopping is unknown so its hard to tell how long they have been part of Dharma. Also its hard to say whether the island has been moving through time at the same pace as the rest of the world. Maybe the two or three years that passed in the real world were covered by those on the island in the little bits that we saw there.

 

[Giant Chicken]

Kate being pregnant seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

Agreed... we have already seen the pregnancy thing twice (claire and sun) we dont need to see it yet again.

 

[Entropy]

As for the long hair, I think its been two or three years since the Oceanic Six left the island so that's plenty of time for Jin to start wearing his hair longer.

Yeah. They were rescued Jan 2005 and returned to the island apprx Jan 2008, 3 years later the title card said. The current time on the island hasn't been stated, but is guessed to be the 70s Dharma era.

Agreed... we have already seen the pregnancy thing twice (claire and sun) we dont need to see it yet again.

And again with Ben's mother and with Rousseau and with Dr. Marvin Candle's baby in the crib and Charlotte saying she was born on the island and with Juliette's sister Rachel and with Henrietta and Sabine and seven more female Others who died when their immune systems turned against their fetuses. Birth is a reoccurring theme on the show, I doubt we've heard the last of the baby & pregnancy angle.