LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[bwayne]

You know, a lot of people are saying that it was Ben's intention to kill Locke once he entered the room. Based on the scene and the way it was constructed it was as if Ben had almost immediate access to cleaning supplies (gloves, towel, spray bottle w/ cleaner, etc.). Yeah he might have went in the janitor closet and such, or maybe he always carries around cleaning supplies in case he randomly decides to kill someone? It seemed planned to a certain extent.

Also, Sayid married the woman he loved. I assume this is the women we saw in one of his earlier flashbacks that he knew from his childhood, whom he refused to torture and eventually let her escape. And now she has been murdered? I wonder if that has anything to do with Ben or if it is just something that happened with no tie in to the main story.

Yep, same woman. I would not surprised if Ben had her killed and blamed it on Whitmore. You saw her funeral in the flashbacks last year, I think. Ben was at the funeral and Sayid confronted him.

 

[Agent0028]

Are you saying that Christian is Jacob? I thought it was understood that Christian was not Jacob but "filling in", if you will, for him.

My theory is that Christian isn't Jacob, but Jacob is Christian.

 

[tomandshell]

Are you saying that Christian is Jacob? I thought it was understood that Christian was not Jacob but "filling in", if you will, for him.

I think that Jacob sent the information about Hawking to Locke via Christian, not that Christian is literally Jacob. They already told us he's not him, but speaks for him.

 

[Moonloop]

Yep, same woman. I would not surprised if Ben had her killed and blamed it on Whitmore. You saw her funeral in the flashbacks last year, I think. Ben was at the funeral and Sayid confronted him.

Ah nice, must have forgotten that part. I am re-watching Season 4 starting tonight so i'll definately keep an eye out for that part.......wait,Then didn't Ben or someone gives Sayid the identities of the men who killed his wife? And then he finds them and kills them and Ben is there or something. It is coming back now.

 

[Entropy]

2 qestions for you guys

2. why did ben change his mind about letting locke "go" when he heard that jin was alive. that has me stumped.......

I thought Ben waited to kill Locke because he needed that crucial piece of information

Ben needed info pure and simple. He never intended to let Locke go. Once he got the story, the ring and heard about Hawking, Ben had everything he needed and it was time for Locke to die.

I really hope next week, Locke beats the crap out of Ben, cant' wait to see the expression on his face when he sees that John is alive.

I don't think Ben will be surprised at all to see John alive. I don't buy into the Ben is trying to get rid of John to maintain power for himself theory. There is more afoot that Ben knows about and John's death was a part of it.

 

[bwayne]

Ah nice, must have forgotten that part. I am re-watching Season 4 starting tonight so i'll definately keep an eye out for that part.......wait,Then didn't Ben or someone gives Sayid the identities of the men who killed his wife? And then he finds them and kills them and Ben is there or something. It is coming back now.

I think Ben was giving Sayid the names of Whitmores people. Since Ben blamed Whitmore for her death, Sayid was out for revenge.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Ben needed info pure and simple. He never intended to let Locke go. Once he got the story, the ring and heard about Hawking, Ben had everything he needed and it was time for Locke to die.

I don't believe that Ben intended to kill him. He would have been more careful going in and wouldn't have needed to clean up so much if that had been what he intended all along.

 

[JediMike71]

There's MUCH more to Benjamin Linus than "meets the eye". He is hiding something. He has an alterior motive. Something secret that only he knows. I can see it in his eyes. He's definitely up to something. One minute you think he's being kind and trying to get all of the people back to the island. The next he's choking John Locke to death?

So, what is Charles Whitmore really up to? His daughter Penny is with Desmond, and now they're happy being together with their son Charlie. A nice thing naming their son after Charlie. I knew Desmond did that in his honor. Why did Sun leave her daughter, and not take her back to the island? So, then if/when she finally meets up with Jinn, he can see their daughter. What happened to Aaron? Kate tells Jack NEVER to ask about what happened to Aaron ever again. So, Kate's hiding something else again. This time about Aaron's whereabouts.

I've watched LOST since the beginning. If anything, the story has never been easy to figure out. That's what makes it so great. It's complicated, but man, it is SO good! It's very intelligent, and keeps me coming back week after week. It's one of my all-time favorite T.V. shows!

 

[GrueSam]

I don't believe that Ben intended to kill him. He would have been more careful going in and wouldn't have needed to clean up so much if that had been what he intended all along.

It's intellligent observations like that, that make me feel unintelligent and unobservant!

 

[Agent0028]

It's intellligent observations like that, that make me feel unintelligent and unobservant!

Don't feel bad, I feel that way alot in this thread.

 

[FlyAndFight]

I think that Jacob sent the information about Hawking to Locke via Christian, not that Christian is literally Jacob. They already told us he's not him, but speaks for him.

Ah, ok. I do agree with you on this.



As for the comments from some regarding Sun not bringing her daughter, I don't understand why there are some of you that find that strange or odd. If I was planning to return to that island, after seeing all of the dangers there (others, Smokey, Widmore and Ben folks, etc, plus the fact that it appeared that I would need to be in another plane crash to get there, there is no way that I would bring my child along for that trip.

I would leave the child with the grandparents as well.

Sun can bring photos of the kid for Jin to look at...

 

[Darth Caedus]

Rewatched the episode and Walt said that he had dreams about John back on the island and people were trying to hurt him.

Well....seems like one of Walt "gigantic head" powers is to see the future. Seems that the new losties aren't going to like Johnny boy very much.

 

[tomandshell]

I'm assuming that they are also the ones that started shooting at Sawyer and Juliet when they stole the Outrigger.

 

[Darth Caedus]

Just rewatched the episode and noticed something I didn't the first time.

Abaddon said that Helen died on a brain anerysm. Maybe I forgot, but the people that were flashing back and forth, people that didn't have a constant, didn't they die of brain anerysms????

Saw this on a LOST forum and got me thinking and found it pretty interesting. It was talking about paradoxes and something pasted this into the thread.

An ontological paradox is a paradox of time travel that questions the existence and creation of information and objects that travel in time. It is very closely related to the predestination paradox and usually occurs at the same time.

Because of the possibility of influencing the past while time traveling, one way of explaining why history does not change is by saying that whatever has happened was meant to happen. A time traveler attempting to alter the past in this model, intentionally or not, would only be fulfilling his role in creating history, not changing it. The Novikov self-consistency principle proposes that contradictory causal loops cannot form, but that consistent ones can.

However, a scenario can occur where items or information are passed from the future to the past, which then become the same items or information that are subsequently passed back. This not only creates a loop, but a situation where these items have no discernible origin. Physical items are even more problematic than pieces of information, since they should ordinarily age and increase in entropy according to the Second law of thermodynamics. But if they age by any nonzero amount at each cycle, they cannot be the same item to be sent back in time, creating a contradiction unless it is a reproduced item such as a seed, spore, etc.

The paradox raises the ontological questions of where, when and by whom the items were created or the information derived. Time loop logic operates on similar principles, sending the solutions to computation problems back in time to be checked for correctness without ever being computed "originally."

It is sometimes called the bootstrap paradox, in reference to its appearance in Robert A. Heinlein's story By His Bootstraps (see below).

 

[barryo]

i have decided that i will keep watching this show........... &....... ....yes, i'm a glutton for punishment........

carry on with your regularly scheduled thread.......

 

[Giant Chicken]

I was reading that most of you feel that the new plane and characters are on the second island...

how can this be??? we know that Julliete, Sawyar & Co. are on the Big Island. They stole one of the canoes! In this weeks episode we saw the canoes on the beach. So dosnt that mean that the canoes and the new characters are on the Big Island???


Or are they going to use the canoes to get to the big island and they Sawyar and Co. will steal one?

 

[Darth Caedus]

I was reading that most of you feel that the new plane and characters are on the second island...

how can this be??? we know that Julliete, Sawyar & Co. are on the Big Island. They stole one of the canoes! In this weeks episode we saw the canoes on the beach. So dosnt that mean that the canoes and the new characters are on the Big Island???


Or are they going to use the canoes to get to the big island and they Sawyar and Co. will steal one?

I thought about that too. They can't have been on the second island because of the canoes. Then Where the FRAK was cesar when he was getting the gun and flashlight??? That room didn't look familar to me. And he found it the first day there??? It took the original losties over a full frakking season to find a dharma room, but this new guy finds one immediately to put injured people?????

 

[Agent0028]

Wasn't the plane part right there close to the canoes where the new people were? And when the Sawyer and co. stole the canoe I don't remember seeing the plane fuselage. My guess would be that the survivors of the second crash take the canoes over to the big island. Probably at the direction of Locke and and then while he's off doing something else they realize somone stole one of their canoes and go after it.

Also I think somoene mentioned that Caeser was in the Hydra station and that it is on the second island.

 

[Moonloop]

The new survivors did crash on the 2nd island, that is confirmed. They are at the Hydra station (which is on the 2nd island). Plus you see Locke looking at the larger island in the distance. The survivors probably take the two left over boats to go find Lapidus or something else and those end up on the big Island, in which Sawyer and the gang then take one of those and stride off.

Also, the plane looked to be in one piece and possibly in salvageable condition. With that said, the others were building a runway on the 2nd island (that is what Kate and Sawyer were being labored for). I don't know, put two and two together.....airplane possibly still in flyable condition and a runway? (assuming the runway is complete or near completion).

 

[Darth Caedus]

The new survivors did crash on the 2nd island, that is confirmed. They are at the Hydra station (which is on the 2nd island). Plus you see Locke looking at the larger island in the distance. The survivors probably take the two left over boats to go find Lapidus or something else and those end up on the big Island, in which Sawyer and the gang then take one of those and stride off.

Also, the plane looked to be in one piece and possibly in salvageable condition. With that said, the others were building a runway on the 2nd island (that is what Kate and Sawyer were being labored for). I don't know, put two and two together.....airplane possibly still in flyable condition and a runway? (assuming the runway is complete or near completion).

Hmmm, I totally forgot that they were building a runway there. Nice catch