LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[316what]

To be fair, there's a big, fat spoiler warning right in the thread's title. If you want to avoid accidental spoilage, I'd recommend you skip these threads entirely until the end of the season.

This is the LOST thread...please stop trying to interject common sense into it.

 

[LOTRFan]

Look, there's Kate running again ..... :chew

 

[pixletwin]

Last night's episode was definitely for setting things up than for moving things forward. That being said I liked all the little goodies which have been mentioned here.

Can't wait for the next week.

 

[Entropy]

Fun ep. I enjoyed the cop angle, "LaFluer" code word, the 316 "survivors", more info about Smokey, the Widmore/Sawyer/MiB setup is nice but I'm sure MiB is a step or two ahead. I didn't quite care for the maudlin Sawyer holding Kate's dress stuff or the Charlotte relationship that seemed to go no where - but it was nice to see her - and the unresolved Anthony Cooper & Kate re-intro with James was frustrating dangling narrative, but all in all it was another solid installment in a great season.

And I can't wait for the Richard "From the Beginning of Time" episode next week. Finally! It's going to be pivotal Jacob/MiB stuff. :chew

 

[Maglor]

To be fair, there's a big, fat spoiler warning right in the thread's title. If you want to avoid accidental spoilage, I'd recommend you skip these threads entirely until the end of the season.

Well that's a chance that I decided to take. If you read back a few pages, I have been debating about coming to this thread for a while.

When I asked if there was a "spoiler free" LOST discussion thread I got this response:

Sadly there isn't. Spoiler threads are always tricky because there is grey area on exactly what spoiler threads can say and what they can't. I always take spoilers to mean up to and including the latest aired episode and nothing beyond. Then you can use the spoiler bar for things beyond that. Of course part of the problem even with that definition is whether rumours and theories classify as spoilers. Technically they aren't since they may or may not be correct, but then if they are its less of a surprise...

This post made me decide to stay.

Again, I think the "spoilers" mentioned in the thread title should be a warning for those who are not up-to-date in their LOST viewing. For example, I have friends who are just watching season 5 on DVD right now. Obviously they wouldn't want to be in this thread at all!

I personally don't have any problem with people expressing theories and I like to do it myself, but seems courteous to use the spoiler bar for any info about episodes that have not aired yet (and in fairness, it is not difficult to do... just one click will do it!) If I have misinterpreted the thread title than let me know and I will re-evaluate whether I want to discuss here. And then if I decide to stay, I promise I will stop complaining about minor spoilers, like the stuff ABC makes public.

 

[Entropy]

Plot spoilers suck, I luckily missed the big "they're Flash Forwards" spoiler that was rampant on the web 2 weeks before the season 3 finale, but everything else, speculation included is just more fuel for the fever.

 

[SwedishHeat]

the Charlotte relationship that seemed to go no where - but it was nice to see her

Does it have to go anywhere??

Has Lost built itself up so much that every little thing has to mean something??

I thought it reinforced what we've already seen, even with their lives changed, the Losties are still ultimately the same people. Sawyer may just be James Ford in his new life, but he's still obsessed with the con man who killed his parents.

Maybe it's also showing that even without Jacob intervening in their lives, all these people are still destined to know each other. Their lives are inexplicably intertwined, there's a greater purpose in the universe than just what Jacob is meddling with.

 

[Entropy]

I like my stories lean with an emphasis on structure and little to no filler. Sure it showed James couldn't let people get close because of his past but the shape of the whole off island story was irregular. And perhaps it was just more setup as was the Anthony Cooper & Kate capture stuff.

 

[beeshaw]

The thing is, we still don't know just WHERE these 'flash sideways' things are going. So until we do, I can't really judge them.

Entropy, if you like your stories lean and mean... maybe this isn't the show for you. And if you haven't figured that out for yourself yet, then for shame sir! lol It's never been lean.

 

[Entropy]

The thing is, we still don't know just WHERE these 'flash sideways' things are going. So until we do, I can't really judge them.

but you can judge how a given episode is put together, the setup, payoffs, structure and such. This last one was an odd shape, esp when compared to the previous Ben ep.

Entropy, if you like your stories lean and mean... maybe this isn't the show for you. And if you haven't figured that out for yourself yet, then for shame sir! lol It's never been lean.

Nope. This is my favorite show of all time because it is so streamlined and well planned. Sure there are flabby bits, characters that never fully bloomed, uneven sections, especially season 3 where they did not know the boundaries and size of the show so they went down some dead ends, Nikki and Paulo notably, but as a whole, this is the most focused, organized live action serial drama ever produced! I am a huge fan of serialized storytelling, whether Charles Dickens, Neil Gaiman or Stephen King, and the unique challenges and skills that type of storytelling demands, and Lost has done it remarkably well, especially considering the compromises and difficulties of television. Of course we have the big wrap up to come, but from all indications and clues, Darlton and crew have done an amazing job planning the story and structure, maintaining a firm a hold of the reigns and riding the same thematic thoroughbreds they started the journey with to the conclusion they had steadily been working towards. And if you haven't figured that out for yourself, then perhaps we are watching different shows. But one man's flavor is another man's fat.

 

[beeshaw]

but you can judge how a given episode is put together, the setup, payoffs, structure and such. This last one was an odd shape, esp when compared to the previous Ben ep.

I'll give you this one.

But personally I've never viewed Lost a 'lean' show. It's jam packed with loose ends and plot lines that have yet to go anywhere. The writers will be the first to tell you they've had to spread out the narrative to 'last' through the entire run of the show. They used the whole first part of Season 3 as an analogy of that. There's been quite a bit of 'treading water' through out the series, and they've been very forth coming with it. So I argue SOME of your points.

But I agree with you in regards to the planned nature of the show and how they seemed to have kept their blinders on for the most part.

And don't get me wrong, I LOVE the show. As stated above, I've just never viewed as 'lean' in the storytelling sense.. It's been big and bulky and full of mysterious mythology. And it's taken it's sweet, sweet TIME telling you what you need to know. And that's part of why I like it.

 

[Entropy]

Guess it depends on what you pay attention to and what you feel necessary to include. Could you edit the whole thing down and still get the gist and basic bullet point story elements? sure. Have you seen Stoppard's 15 minute Hamlet? It gets the story across but loses meaning, pacing and poetry.
Just because a story takes its time doesn't mean it's doughy. It, generally, has zipped along when need be and strolled when it wanted to drink in the surroundings. For instance, I would argue that much of the historical and lyrical spice of Tolkien is what makes it so great and unique, but for others that's just distraction and bulky excess.

That said, yes there are many bits over the years that would surely be cut or reworked from Lost if one were editing and polishing after the whole story was written out. A careful blueprint for each season, a show Bible, and a steady hand on the wheel can help greatly, and did with Lost, but you're right that in serial tv writing, esp a big mystery show, there will bound to be some false starts, dropped plot threads and red herrings.

 

[beeshaw]

And thus I believe we've found our middle ground.

I think we feel very much the same way about the show. Just have differing views in regards to the leaness of the storytelling. Do I still love it, warts and all? Hell yes sir.

 

[Lookin4Precious]

Last nights episode was certainly a "set-up" episode, but, I feel that later one, once all the pieces have fallen into place and the truth of what is going on is revealed, this episode will be viewed diferently. It was brilliantly written, in that most every single scene (certainly those between Sawyer and FLocke) were so intricate that every single line of dialogue, nay, word uttered felt laced and pointed. These were two expert manipulators never doubting the others ability, or letting their own gaurd down for a moment. Sawyer combating FLockes weighted compliment that he is the greatest liar he's ever encountered by telling the absolute truth at every turn was brilliant. But most interesting was what we learned (or didn't) about FLocke himself. What IS his role in all this? Why DID he send Sawyer to Hydra Island? On a Recon mission? To stumble upon the bodies of the slain Ajira flight passengers so that Sawyer would think twice about crossing FLocke (who is most likely responsible for their demise)? Or was it that he knew Widmore had arrived and wanted to see how Sawyer would play his hand? Maybe it was a combination of any of these. ORRRR, MAAAYYYBE, despite how advantages to FLocke any one of these reasons could be, perhaps the REAL reason he sent Sawyer away was so that he could start manipulating someone else.... Kate.

In hindsight, this has become my favorite element of last nights episode. FLockes face when Kate emergence from the Temple read to me as pleasant surprise. What first was viewed by the public as a validation of the worthlessness of Kate's characte has actually made her (perhaps save only for Jack, the clear persumed candidate to take over for Jacob) the most interesting person in the Jacob/MIB conflict. The fact that, according to the numbers she isn't special has made her VERY special indeed. Perhaps the fact that nobody (i.e. Jacob) is looking at her makes her a very strong hand for FLocke to play. And how does he do this? By bringing back one of the oldest mysteries of the show. He uses Aaron.

Since the very beginning, we have been told that nobody but Claire could raise Aaron. This is of the utmost importance. We don't know why. But it has certainly been stressed throughout the entire run of the show. If that is true, then FLocke's attempt to convince Kate that Claire is no longer a fit mother and that she should reconsider reuniting Mother and Son is the strongest bit of evidence we have that he is bad news. And, who is to say that he has not manipulated Claire since appearing to her as her Father at the end of Season Four? Leading her away fro Aaron, poisoning her mind, corrupting her. How much control does he have exactly? He has already admitted to being responsible for her hate of Kate, BUT, is he actually capable of forcing action out of those that he has corrupted? Did he force Sayids hand in the temple, causing Dogen's and Lennon's deaths? AND, did he force Claire's attack on Kate? Only to then force her hand into a teary apology, making Kate all the more suspicious of this now unstable, moody woman, and her ability to be a good Mother to Aaron?

Seems like Aaron is still a very large part of this puzzle, and seems like FLocke is still very interested in keeping Mother and Son apart, and he may be able to convince Kate to do his dirty work for him. Also intersting to note: the tree's in which Kate sulked off to to cry alone post Clairessault were the same trees she hid in during the pilot when hiding from.... yup... The Smoke Monster. A very fun redux of that situation when Flocke, The Smoke Monster himself came upon Kate and offered he his hand.

As "set-up" as this episode was, you have to give the writers credit. Through every 'nothing' that happened, the subtext was SCREAMING LOUD. The entire episode was written as a tease, so that you were disappointed by not getting what you expected, meaning the writers KNEW what you wanted, and wrote around that. Certainly not lazy on their part. The entire Juliet thing was brilliant and gives me faith that having done an entire episode that was a tease for Juliet, they know exactly how important she is and will not disappoint when she DOES return. The blind date, the sunflower, the canoe's, all of it... just great!

 

[Agent0028]

Great post. It certainly had me rethinking my reaction to last night's episode.

What I can't figure out is why no one reacted when Locke said that he killed the people in the temple because they were trying to protect the island from him but he actually wants to leave. Soo...why didn't they just let him? Seems like a pretty good way to protect the island. And why did he have to kill them before he could leave? Could they somehow shoot down the plane? He couldn't fly it in the opposite direction of the temple?

And one final question...if they can't fly a plane, how in the hell are they going to pilot a sub?

 

[Entropy]

Any guesses what Widmore was keeping locked up in the sub?


Desmond??

 

[quadcent]

Any guesses what Widmore was keeping locked up in the sub?


Desmond??

twinkies for woody

 

[tomandshell]

The entire Juliet thing was brilliant and gives me faith that having done an entire episode that was a tease for Juliet, they know exactly how important she is and will not disappoint when she DOES return. The blind date, the sunflower, the canoe's, all of it... just great!

I hope you're right--I got so excited when the blind date was mentioned and I just knew that we were going to see Juliet and Sawyer go for coffee. It was a let down when Charlotte was revealed instead. I think they would only do this to us if they did indeed have plans to give us the Juliet scene down the road--maybe in the finale after how they toyed with us this week.

And I like the idea that Desmond is locked up on the sub. (I think I predicted that those two were the ones coming to the island, back somewhere in this thread...)

Maybe my favorite moment from last night's episode was when Locke gave Claire a big old b**** slap.

 

[Maglor]

Maybe my favorite moment from last night's episode was when Locke gave Claire a big old b**** slap.

Me too!!! THat was FTW!!!!

 

[Moonloop]

The best fan made clip so far for the promo contest (this one was made using their own software): https://lost-promo-contest.abc.go.com/published/7354?starting_with=most_recent