LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[Memnoch]

These are all very important questions to the story. Just becuase the show may be character focused, doesn't mean that it gives the writers a blank check to not to have the plot contain any internal logic.

The creators even said that a large part of the show when they created it is having the island as a character.

If you can explain to me how getting the answer to how Jacob left the Island was important to Jack, Hurley, Ben or any of the other characters is important, then I'm on board with it. If not - it's only important to you and thus not important to the end game of the story.

 

[ShadowX81]

If you can explain to me how getting the answer to how Jacob left the Island was important to Jack, Hurley, Ben or any of the other characters is important, then I'm on board with it. If not - it's only important to you and thus not important to the end game of the story.

Its not important to the characters, its important because it makes the plot make sense. As well as the dozens of other unexplained facts and contradictions in the Jacob plotline.

The plot still needs to have internal logic for something to be well written, regarless if it is the focus or not.

 

[Memnoch]

And yet, plot wise, the show was about the characters. Not the minutia of how Jacob got off the Island or how he found out about other land. You are looking for a completely different type of show than what LOST was completely upfront about being.

 

[GrueSam]

The island was no longer needed so it sank.

 

[dr_teng]

Other characters were teleported off the island, so why doesn't it make sense that Jacob could also do it, once he was aware of other areas?

 

[ShadowX81]

And yet, plot wise, the show was about the characters. Not the minutia of how Jacob got off the Island or how he found out about other land. You are looking for a completely different type of show than what LOST was completely upfront about being.

No, characters arent the entirety of the plot. There is still the main plotline (what the characters do and thier actions. plus the larger story outside of themselves), and for it to be well written, it needs to make sense, be explained, and not contradict itself.

Weather or not you think it is important, the plot still exists, and needs to be written tightly.

LOST was never upfront about being a show where no plots mattered. In fact the creators specificaly said several times that they wanted a show where the island was a character itslef. And back in the early seasons when LOST was a sensation, everyone was talking about the mysteries and questions, not about weather or not the characters would find absolution. The creators also said all along that they had planned out everything in advance and had the entire plot worked out. Obviously that was a lie.

 

[SSC_Nerd]

No, characters arent the entirety of the plot. There is still the main plotline (what the characters do and thier actions. plus the larger story outside of themselves), and for it to be well written, it needs to make sense, be explained, and not contradict itself.

Weather or not you think it is important, the plot still exists, and needs to be written tightly.

LOST was never upfront about being a show where no plots mattered. In fact the creators specificaly said several times that they wanted a show where the island was a character itslef. And back in the early seasons when LOST was a sensation, everyone was talking about the mysteries and questions, not about weather or not the characters would find absolution. The creators also said all along that they had planned out everything in advance and had the entire plot worked out. Obviously that was a lie.

They didn't actually say they knew where they were going for the rest of the show until the 3rd or 4th season. They've admitted that throught the first two that they didn't know where they were going. And this was after Abrams was long gone.

 

[Memnoch]

Watch the last ten minutes alone off Hulu - yep, still just as emotional when Jack awakens.

 

[pixletwin]

I'm not going to watch the finale again unless I have watched the whole series first.

 

[SSC_Nerd]

In case anyone hasn't, here is a very well thought out and well written personal analysis from a writer at EW. It's a very good read.

https://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html

 

[GrueSam]

They didn't actually say they knew where they were going for the rest of the show until the 3rd or 4th season. They've admitted that throught the first two that they didn't know where they were going. And this was after Abrams was long gone.

Where did you read this?

I was at the very first LOST panel at Comic-Con in 2004. It was basically a promo for the pilot and we got to see a long teaser for it along with the panel.

Cuse and Lindelof said that they had a story that they had been working on for a while, that they knew how it would begin and end but it was up to the studio and fans to determine how many seasons the show would run and ultimately determine how long they needed to stretch out the arcs.

In hindsight I imagine they were talking about the main characters' arcs and storyline, not every single arc...

 

[pixletwin]

Awesome read. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Darth Waller]

In case anyone hasn't, here is a very well thought out and well written personal analysis from a writer at EW. It's a very good read.

https://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html

That was awesome. Thanks!

 

[SSC_Nerd]

Where did you read this?

I was at the very first LOST panel at Comic-Con in 2004. It was basically a promo for the pilot and we got to see a long teaser for it along with the panel.

Cuse and Lindelof said that they had a story that they had been working on for a while, that they knew how it would begin and end but it was up to the studio and fans to determine how many seasons the show would run and ultimately determine how long they needed to stretch out the arcs.

In hindsight I imagine they were talking about the main characters' arcs and storyline, not every single arc...

I've looked, and I cannot find the exact article I recall reading, but here's something along the lines, though more or less vague than I had hoped it would be.

https://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/film/article/lost-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-interview-73101

Important quotes.

Crave Online: If you didn't have your end date, would you still be telling this story?

Carlton Cuse: No, I mean, I think that the end date, our gratitude to Steve McPherson and Mark Pedowitz for negotiating the end date knows no bounds. I mean, that completely liberates us. We didn't know whether the mythology we had had to last two seasons or nine seasons and that was utterly paralyzing. So now that we know exactly how many episodes we have left has really allowed us to plan and to do this stuff with the confidence that we know exactly how much of the journey is left. That's been enormously liberating and really the key to the whole show for us as storytellers.

Damon Lindelof: Essentially that we got to a point in season three, and I think a lot of you were in the room where we basically did that session after you had seen the first seven episodes of season three and the show had sort of reached that point where we all knew it was trending into an area of complete and utter suckiness. Is that a word?

Carlton Cuse: That's a good word.
Damon Lindelof: And at that point, we all had a decision to make which was are we going to have an end date or is the show going to get canceled in like a year or a year and a half? Because it simply couldn't go on the way that it was. So the story that Carlton and I would be telling if we didn't have an end date is that we wouldn't be telling the story at all. Someone else would be up here talking about Lost because we didn't know how to continue to do the show anymore, which is why we lobbied for the show. So basically, all these ideas, the flash forwards being the first one that we were able to pull the trigger on, and then entering into the endgame of the story which involved a significant amount of nonlinear time travel storytelling, was all sort of part of what our plan was but we couldn't start to do any of that stuff until we realized we were working towards an endpoint.

Carlton Cuse: Because this time travel reflects a kind of a plunge towards the ending which is irreversible at this point. I mean, once we committed to doing that, there was only a certain amount of distance between that and where the story, in our opinion, had to end.

I guess kind of does read like how you were stating it a moment ago, but to say that the whole story was planned out (like some were assuming) is quite an incorrect statement, since there were just so many factors that it was dependant on. It's unlikely that they were ever really going to talk about what was planned and what was fresh until the show was totally over. I would assume there are going to be failry in depth and lenghty discussions on the DVD's that could clear up all this talk of waht was planned and what wasn't.

EDIT: Just read more articles, and it sounds like they knew how they wanted the show to END, it was just everything inbetween that they seemed unsure about. So it sound like when they were creating the show that they knew about 5% of what they wanted to do, but it was the other 95% up in the air.

 

[barryo]

i've watched the end 15 minutes like 6 times...............the music is just brilliant & very moving. i dont think the end could have been scored any better than it was.

........... by losties.

 

[pixletwin]

Yeah. Michael Giacchino is really a wonderful composer. Can't wait for the soundtrack to be released.

 

[barryo]

Yeah. Michael Giacchino is really a wonderful composer. Can't wait for the soundtrack to be released.

definite buy........

 

[UTtoyfan]

That "Life and Death" theme always gets me. Ever since the death of Boone/birth of Aaron.
Do they give out Emmy awards for television score composers? If so, Michael Giacchino needs one to go with his Oscar.

 

[Maglor]

Wow, I have a lot of catching up to do in this thread, so sory if this has been touched on already, but:

the more I think about it, the more I think that David (Jack's son) is the key to understanding the nature of the flash sideways...


I think to call it "purgatory" is an over-simplification.

As enlightened Locke explained--Jack didn't really have a son.

That's my point. Jack died before he could ever father a son, therefore David can't exist...





Here are my thoughts at present:

I actually don't mind the part at the end where Christian opens the church doors and all the light comes in. They are going to walk into an afterlife, but the writers leave it up to us to decide what that afterlife is.

The nature of the sideways universe is what is in question for me. At first watch it seems that they are saying it's is a sort of purgatory/limbo that exists for all people that die, or that all people make their own limbo.

But the more I think about it, I think it is something that only exists for the Losties. The email link posted a few pages back referred to it as a "psycho-spiritual virtual reality, a vast active living intelligence system." I like the sound of that. (I'm not totally sure what it means, but it sounds like a sci-fi plot device.)

An interesting feature of the sideways universe is that David (Jack's son) could not be a real person/soul. Jack never fathered a son before he died on the island. So David seems to be part of the "virtual reality" created by the minds of the Losties (that part would have been an addition by Jack.) This seems to support the idea that the flash sideways is not a literal purgatory/limbo.

I suspect that Hurley was involved in making it possible. As the new protector of the island he could make his own rules. Ben told him to do what he does best: help people (or something like that). Maybe one way that he helped his friends is setting in place the mechanism for the Losties to make the sideways universe (Christian says that they 'made' the sideways universe).

I really think that I will like the last 10 minutes of the show a lot more if i watch it again with all these thoughts in mind. Also just the fact that I know what's coming will allow me to focus on the emotional resonance of the characters' experience right up until the end of the episode. I knew intellectually that Jack's death scene was beautiful and sad, but I didn't feel it during the first watch because of being so distracted be the sideways universe reveal. Looking forward to the bluray re-watch!

 

[plasmid303]

Oh I hope this hasn't been posted yet.

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