EVILFACE
Insufferable S.O.B.
Anyone figure out why Eloise Hawking was upset with Desmond in the sideways/afterlife/purgatory when he got everyone together?
LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!
- Thread starter Darklord Dave
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plasmid303
Super Freak
Because she didn't want to lose her son? Which makes me wonder why Daniel didn't move on with Charlotte...
Speaking of which, I liked sideways Eloise and Widmore.
Patient Zero
Super Freak
There is too many ways to slice this up. I think that is what makes it good. The experience is not the same for everyone, and can be construde in alot of ways. With that being said, I am really glad it is over. I will miss the show, but I feel like they left it as good as they could for the huge span of fans the show had. Life wouldn't be fun if you had every answer, I think a show should be the same way. It makes you think, and in this day and age I believe this is a good thing. No matter, if you have watched this from the start, it was an awesome experience. 
Darth Caedus
Formerly Congerking
Yea, that had me thinking when she said it. At first I thought that the dead Losties made the sideways world to help Jack and themselves remember eachother before they went into the "afterlife". Perhaps "normal" people don't remember their life on Earth before they go into the "afterlife" and it took someone like Desmond, who can exist in multiple timelines and such, to get them to remember eachother and move on at the same time and same place.
But if that was the case, why would Eloise think that Desmond was going to take Daniel with her?? Christian said that each of them that created the "sideways" world did so to help eachother and move on, and Daniel certainly was a part of that; but why was he excluded? (him and Charlette) Were the people that didn't "create" the sideways universe completely unnecessary and just fill-ins to make the sideways world seem like a real one?? I don't think so, because Eloise (who we know is Desmond like with her knowledge of time/reality) was worried that she was going to lose her son.
I'm thinking that the people that didn't go with them get their own version of a sideways universe to help them move on and Daniel/Charlette isn't a part of Jacks??? I'm tired and rambling and really hope this makes sense.
Karma
Jack's Smirking Revenge
what are your memorable scenes from seasons 1-5
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Lookin4Precious
Super Freak
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Read through MOST of the threads, so if this has been mentioned already forgive me. I'm going to try and trunicate my thoughts as I don't want to get too long winded.
Let me first say that the Flash Sideways being revealed as a Purgatory of sorts was beautiful, resonant and completely straight forward. I wasn't left saying "WTF" or "Huh" afterwards, as it is one of the few instances in all of LOST where Characters actually have something flat out explained to them. Christian told Jack, and us all there was to know about the Sideways, and if you liked it, great, if not, oh well, but for people that didn't get it or are confused by it.... anyway....
My confusion came in the actual Island story itself. I loved this too, and clearly the plot points and what actually happened wasn't confusing to me, but the point behind it all left me quite puzzled. I thought about it all night and day, and suddenly mid afternoon it all clicked and I had an "awakening" of sorts myself, and fell in love with the show all over again. I think I'll do bullets to get the point across as clear as possible.
Here is my interpretation of what events took place and why they took place and how they played into the overall show:
1. Jack Shepherd is a "Man of Science" who constantly needs something to FIX. This aching need often confuses those around him (and often Jack himself) into thinking that he is a Leader.
2. We watch Jack during the first 3 seasons as he LEADS the survivors of Flight 815 with varying degrees of success. His refusal to believe in the Island, his destiny and John Locke shape his character as being stubborn, reason based and flawed.
3. After the reveal that Jack gets off the Island only to become a broken, self destructive man that views himself as a failure, the next 3 seasons show Jacks journey to redemption. He first takes up the reigns of leadership again, but this time with a more purpose driven, faith based resolve. After the failed detonation of Jughead, Jack loses all ability to believe in himself and his actions, and wants nothing to do with a leadership postition. He resigns himself to follow.
4. He follows this until he becomes overwhelmingly certain of his purpose in life. The reason he returned to the Island. What his life has been building to all along. He is meant to replace Jacob. And Jacob has known this too, but needed Jack to come to that decision on his own. HOWEVER, Jacob knows Jack (and all the candidates) better than they know themselves. Jacob knows that Jacks driving force in life is not to lead, but to fix, and that is the job Jacob has always needed Jack to facilitate.
5. Now, before we continue, let us recognize that once the shows big picture became clear it also became clear that Season 2 stood as a metaphor for the entire series. Desmond stuck in his hatch waiting for his replacement to come free him from his job which required him to push a button to save the world symbolizes Jacob being stuck on the Island waiting for his replacement to come free him from his job which requires him to protect a light to save the world. When Locke broke the computer and brought everything to the edge of utter disaster, Desmond did the only thing he could do, he turned the failsafe key. Being exposed to the massive amount of Electro Magnetism made Desmond uniquely resilient to such exposure from that point on. Due to this development, Desmond himself became the "Fail Safe Key" for Jacob.
6. Now, knowing that if things got as crazy for the light/island as they did for the button/hatch he would need his key, Jacob visited Widmore and convinced him to kidnap Desmond and bring him to the island. Widmore followed instructions and once there, exposed Desmond to another blast of EM energy per Jacobs request. This blasted Desmond into the Sideways World, which he realized was in fact an afterlife of sorts. Knowing that this afterlife existed and knowing what it held for him, Desmond returned to the Island world fearless. He had nothing to fear because the Sideways world was waiting for him after this life. Jacob now knew that he could count on Desmond to do what was needed.
7. So Desmond comes into play. MiB believes that he can use Desmond to destroy the light/island and finally go home. Jack believes that there is no way Jacob would have gone through all that trouble to bring Desmond back to the Island if his going into the light would simply destory the Island. So both "Men" lay their cards on the table and bet against each other. They want the same thing (desmond to go down into the light) and both expect that they will get what they want. And, they are both right and they are both wrong.
8. In the premiere of this season, as Juliet was dying, she mumbled about going dutch on coffee, and we well versed LOSTIES assumed that her Sideways incarnation was bleeding through and that we would eventually see a scene where she and Sawyer were reunited over coffee (we cheered..... and waited..... and waited....). But then she said something else. She said she had something very important to tell James...... and then she died. Thanks to Miles' ability to communicate with the dead, he was able to pick up her last lost words... "It worked". At the time we took it to be the first sign that our Island folk might learn about the Sideways world, or at least the first indication that detonating Jughead and resetting the events that led to the crash of Flight 815 had worked. Of course, it hadn't. It was a red herring that made us think what we were watching was the reset events due to Jughead. Well played Darlton... BUT, they had one more trick up their sleeve. At first I was tickled pink to learn that "It worked" referred to nothing more than a vending machine being unplugged and tricking a stubborn candy bar to fall free of its coil. Of all the things that "It worked" could have been referring to, I dont think anybody ventured to guess it referred to Apollo Bars and Vending Machines. BUT, as I have come to believe... it meant a LOT more than that....
8.5 .... Darlton knew that fans would be looking forward to the Sawyer/Juliet reunion, and that it had to be great. And it was, on an emotional level. So much so, that we (or at least I) totally overlooked the BIG clue that was being given to us in that scene. Juliet informed Sawyer how to get what he wanted; the stuck candy bar. She told him that all he had to do was unplug the vending machine, it would reset, and the candy bar would be free. He did it, and when he did, the lights went out, the candy bar feel and Juilet uttered the phrase "it worked". That whole scene was a metaphor meant to shed light on....
9. ... Desmond down in the light. He entered the pool of light, and approached what looked to be a literal cork in the bottom of the pool (but for clarity sake, lets call it a Plug, which has a dual meaning anyway). Desmond entered the pool, unphased by the lights power due to his gift, and UNPLUGGED the light source from the island. The light went out.... It worked. Then ____ hit the fan. The Man IN Black gloated that Jack was wrong and he was seemingly correct as the Island began to crumble right then and there. As the Man In Black attempted to leave, Jack tackled him to the ground and started to wail on him with his fists.... and low and behold, The Man In Black BLED! But it looked as though Jack was right too... Desmond was the key to killing the man in Black. And later, thats exactly what Jack did.
10. So what exactly did Desmond do??? I believe that when he unplugged the island, he reset it, just as Juliet instructed Sawyer to do with the vending machine. Once reset, it took away all the gifts, magic, power of the island and in that very moment, the Man In Black was the smoke monster no more, nor was he immortal... just as Richard seemingly began to age AND, Desmond was suddenly no longer immune to the harmful effects of the light. Which is why he couldn't just go back in and plug the island back in. In order to do that, the island would demand a sacrifice.
11. It was just after Jack had killed the Man In Black, as the Island was crumbling about him that he realized that THIS was his destiny. He was never meant to be the leader of the island, he was only ever meant to FIX it. He destroyed the evil that had corrupted the island, and in order to get it "walking" again, he would have to sacrifice himself by going into the light and plugging it back in. And then the true Island Protector, Hurley could take his place as leader of the newly reset Island that would be a Tabula Rasa for him and his number 2, Ben Linus.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh.... what do you guys think?
Let me first say that the Flash Sideways being revealed as a Purgatory of sorts was beautiful, resonant and completely straight forward. I wasn't left saying "WTF" or "Huh" afterwards, as it is one of the few instances in all of LOST where Characters actually have something flat out explained to them. Christian told Jack, and us all there was to know about the Sideways, and if you liked it, great, if not, oh well, but for people that didn't get it or are confused by it.... anyway....
My confusion came in the actual Island story itself. I loved this too, and clearly the plot points and what actually happened wasn't confusing to me, but the point behind it all left me quite puzzled. I thought about it all night and day, and suddenly mid afternoon it all clicked and I had an "awakening" of sorts myself, and fell in love with the show all over again. I think I'll do bullets to get the point across as clear as possible.
Here is my interpretation of what events took place and why they took place and how they played into the overall show:
1. Jack Shepherd is a "Man of Science" who constantly needs something to FIX. This aching need often confuses those around him (and often Jack himself) into thinking that he is a Leader.
2. We watch Jack during the first 3 seasons as he LEADS the survivors of Flight 815 with varying degrees of success. His refusal to believe in the Island, his destiny and John Locke shape his character as being stubborn, reason based and flawed.
3. After the reveal that Jack gets off the Island only to become a broken, self destructive man that views himself as a failure, the next 3 seasons show Jacks journey to redemption. He first takes up the reigns of leadership again, but this time with a more purpose driven, faith based resolve. After the failed detonation of Jughead, Jack loses all ability to believe in himself and his actions, and wants nothing to do with a leadership postition. He resigns himself to follow.
4. He follows this until he becomes overwhelmingly certain of his purpose in life. The reason he returned to the Island. What his life has been building to all along. He is meant to replace Jacob. And Jacob has known this too, but needed Jack to come to that decision on his own. HOWEVER, Jacob knows Jack (and all the candidates) better than they know themselves. Jacob knows that Jacks driving force in life is not to lead, but to fix, and that is the job Jacob has always needed Jack to facilitate.
5. Now, before we continue, let us recognize that once the shows big picture became clear it also became clear that Season 2 stood as a metaphor for the entire series. Desmond stuck in his hatch waiting for his replacement to come free him from his job which required him to push a button to save the world symbolizes Jacob being stuck on the Island waiting for his replacement to come free him from his job which requires him to protect a light to save the world. When Locke broke the computer and brought everything to the edge of utter disaster, Desmond did the only thing he could do, he turned the failsafe key. Being exposed to the massive amount of Electro Magnetism made Desmond uniquely resilient to such exposure from that point on. Due to this development, Desmond himself became the "Fail Safe Key" for Jacob.
6. Now, knowing that if things got as crazy for the light/island as they did for the button/hatch he would need his key, Jacob visited Widmore and convinced him to kidnap Desmond and bring him to the island. Widmore followed instructions and once there, exposed Desmond to another blast of EM energy per Jacobs request. This blasted Desmond into the Sideways World, which he realized was in fact an afterlife of sorts. Knowing that this afterlife existed and knowing what it held for him, Desmond returned to the Island world fearless. He had nothing to fear because the Sideways world was waiting for him after this life. Jacob now knew that he could count on Desmond to do what was needed.
7. So Desmond comes into play. MiB believes that he can use Desmond to destroy the light/island and finally go home. Jack believes that there is no way Jacob would have gone through all that trouble to bring Desmond back to the Island if his going into the light would simply destory the Island. So both "Men" lay their cards on the table and bet against each other. They want the same thing (desmond to go down into the light) and both expect that they will get what they want. And, they are both right and they are both wrong.
8. In the premiere of this season, as Juliet was dying, she mumbled about going dutch on coffee, and we well versed LOSTIES assumed that her Sideways incarnation was bleeding through and that we would eventually see a scene where she and Sawyer were reunited over coffee (we cheered..... and waited..... and waited....). But then she said something else. She said she had something very important to tell James...... and then she died. Thanks to Miles' ability to communicate with the dead, he was able to pick up her last lost words... "It worked". At the time we took it to be the first sign that our Island folk might learn about the Sideways world, or at least the first indication that detonating Jughead and resetting the events that led to the crash of Flight 815 had worked. Of course, it hadn't. It was a red herring that made us think what we were watching was the reset events due to Jughead. Well played Darlton... BUT, they had one more trick up their sleeve. At first I was tickled pink to learn that "It worked" referred to nothing more than a vending machine being unplugged and tricking a stubborn candy bar to fall free of its coil. Of all the things that "It worked" could have been referring to, I dont think anybody ventured to guess it referred to Apollo Bars and Vending Machines. BUT, as I have come to believe... it meant a LOT more than that....
8.5 .... Darlton knew that fans would be looking forward to the Sawyer/Juliet reunion, and that it had to be great. And it was, on an emotional level. So much so, that we (or at least I) totally overlooked the BIG clue that was being given to us in that scene. Juliet informed Sawyer how to get what he wanted; the stuck candy bar. She told him that all he had to do was unplug the vending machine, it would reset, and the candy bar would be free. He did it, and when he did, the lights went out, the candy bar feel and Juilet uttered the phrase "it worked". That whole scene was a metaphor meant to shed light on....
9. ... Desmond down in the light. He entered the pool of light, and approached what looked to be a literal cork in the bottom of the pool (but for clarity sake, lets call it a Plug, which has a dual meaning anyway). Desmond entered the pool, unphased by the lights power due to his gift, and UNPLUGGED the light source from the island. The light went out.... It worked. Then ____ hit the fan. The Man IN Black gloated that Jack was wrong and he was seemingly correct as the Island began to crumble right then and there. As the Man In Black attempted to leave, Jack tackled him to the ground and started to wail on him with his fists.... and low and behold, The Man In Black BLED! But it looked as though Jack was right too... Desmond was the key to killing the man in Black. And later, thats exactly what Jack did.
10. So what exactly did Desmond do??? I believe that when he unplugged the island, he reset it, just as Juliet instructed Sawyer to do with the vending machine. Once reset, it took away all the gifts, magic, power of the island and in that very moment, the Man In Black was the smoke monster no more, nor was he immortal... just as Richard seemingly began to age AND, Desmond was suddenly no longer immune to the harmful effects of the light. Which is why he couldn't just go back in and plug the island back in. In order to do that, the island would demand a sacrifice.
11. It was just after Jack had killed the Man In Black, as the Island was crumbling about him that he realized that THIS was his destiny. He was never meant to be the leader of the island, he was only ever meant to FIX it. He destroyed the evil that had corrupted the island, and in order to get it "walking" again, he would have to sacrifice himself by going into the light and plugging it back in. And then the true Island Protector, Hurley could take his place as leader of the newly reset Island that would be a Tabula Rasa for him and his number 2, Ben Linus.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh.... what do you guys think?
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EVILFACE
Insufferable S.O.B.
Sounds about right.
Shropt
Super Freak
Nice catch on the unplugging of the snack machine metaphor.
Oh, and BTW. Not to be labeled as the cryer but I watched the finale again with my wife and frickin Niagara Falls opened up again.
I tell you LOST fans... beware the last 20 minutes when people are around.
So you think the Hydrogen bomb might have reset the Island?If its meant to be a link between what happened in front of the vending machine and what Miles told Sawyer about it working on the island.
Ironman1188
SO BE IT
I watched, and enjoyed the show from the beginning. Thought I figured things out a time or two along the way but, after that finale I find the only thing truly LOST after 6 years is me.
blakus939
Super Freak
I just saw the Finale now. What can I say, absolutely freakin brilliant! Was so great to have Michael Giacciano's recurring theme, it's so moving. The guy is amazing. I just love that the finale was so heavily based on Jack, he was such an interesting character. It's so sad to say 'was'. I agree there are more interesting characters perse' but he was so, relatable might be the word to use.
The Sawyer/Juliet scene was reminiscent of when she was stuck down the Swan site. Remember she was heard to say 'it worked'. She was actually infact, merging/paraphrasing into the limbo world. She grabs the candy bar - 'it worked'.
Desmonds purpose was purely to survive the electromagnetic anomally. He himself mistook flashes (remember the electromagnetism causes flashes, especially of the future, the charlie death etc) of the, alternate reality, IE pergatory so to speak, for an actual alternate reality and was ultimately trying to merge the two. Hence his comments to Jack "I can take you there" etc. He could literally see into the future, or rather into his purgatory while still remaining alive, although because of his past experiences, he assumed this was actually a real place.
The Sawyer/Juliet scene was reminiscent of when she was stuck down the Swan site. Remember she was heard to say 'it worked'. She was actually infact, merging/paraphrasing into the limbo world. She grabs the candy bar - 'it worked'.
Desmonds purpose was purely to survive the electromagnetic anomally. He himself mistook flashes (remember the electromagnetism causes flashes, especially of the future, the charlie death etc) of the, alternate reality, IE pergatory so to speak, for an actual alternate reality and was ultimately trying to merge the two. Hence his comments to Jack "I can take you there" etc. He could literally see into the future, or rather into his purgatory while still remaining alive, although because of his past experiences, he assumed this was actually a real place.
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Darth Waller
Are you on the square?
Oh, and BTW. Not to be labeled as the cryer but I watched the finale again with my wife and frickin Niagara Falls opened up again.
Does this help?
*Sees pic of Jack & Vincent*
Darth Waller
Are you on the square?
*Sees pic of Jack & Vincent*
If a picture is worth a thousand words, that picture is worth a thousand tears.
p!tu
Shiz-lakin-a-craka-lakin™
barryo
Dealer of Death
- Joined
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Does this help?
thanks for posting, i was wanting that pic for my desk top............
- Joined
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I watched it again and I noticed something I didn't the first time around, I made a screen grab, see for yourselves!!!!
[/IMG]
UTtoyfan
Super Freak
Lucas strikes again! 
*Sees pic of Jack & Vincent*
I really enjoyed the ending even though they didn't answer everything but they were never going to imho and that's fine with me.
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