Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[Rorywan]

That scene looked like someone digitally put someone else's face on it. It looked like a weird morphing effect.

I thought so too, but I'm telling ya, they didn't. Like I told everyone 2 years ago what Zod looked like, Halo like exosuit, beard, black version of Supes rubber suit..etc etc... I have my sources!

I do think it looks cool though, if it was done in CG it was done after the shot was "finished/delivered" by D.Neg. Which is very unusual to say the least.

They used different FX teams on the movie, though. Including a small team that are Zack's in-house guys at Cruel. They worked on a handful of shots after the other FX teams turned them in. They also did the trailers. Could this be one of their post manips? Perhaps.

Yeah, know that mate, but D.Neg did those particular shots? To take apart FX shots after they have been delivered in a different post house is practically impossible (well a huge ****ing deal anyway), all the CG archives and hardware would have to be transfered. I'm in the happy coincidence camp until proven otherwise.

 

[GasparZizou]

You could blame Alan Moore and Watchmen or Frank Miller and The Dark Knight Returns both of which happened way before 9/11. I have no problem with heroes who are heroic from the start. The problem from a story standpoint is that there is no room for growth. Where does your hero go from perfection? Cap is given some depth by being the fish out of time. He is from a time long since passed in this country. The Ultimates did a great job of exploring this idea. They have since devolved into typical Superhero stories. Flawed heroes work because we are flawed. Even the ancient Greek heroes, hell the gods themselves were flawed. But it is nice to see the knight who just wants to save the day and vanquish evil. The problem is, it's hard to do a serialized story or several movies with that character.

But have we actually seen a hero who isn't good from the start? Maybe Wolverine and Batman?

 

[GasparZizou]

That JL poster is amazing, I don't understand why they don't want Nolan Batman to be in this universe, it fits perfectly.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Yeah, but....every single hero? Why don't we have any heros who are heroes from the start? Captain America is literally the only one.

I blame 9/11. After that happened, no one could ever make a character who was a good person from the start. They have to work to be good. Blah.

Cap is only a hero in heart but his physical attributes prevented him from making a difference as he kept being denied for service. It wasnt until he was injected with the super solider serum that his physical attributes allowed him to shine and put his noble, selfless intentions into action and make a difference. I think that was the point of his character arc, he always had what it took- the selfless, self sacrificing mentality which is why he was chosen. However I he was not a hero from the start because he was limited by his physique. Yes he was pure of heart and had the right stuff but it wasn't until his physical capabilities were enhanced that he truly became a complete hero.

 

[IrishJedi]

The other thing is that I heard them talking about doing this before I even saw the rough cut over a year ago. And that shot wasn't in there (just rough pre-viz) So if they're trying to take credit for something in retrospect that was a "happy accident" that would be one hell of an impressive ruse... to take false credit for something that hasn't even happened yet.

 

[Rorywan]

The other thing is that I heard them talking about doing this before I even saw the rough cut over a year ago. And that shot wasn't in there. So if they're trying to take credit for something in retrospect that was a "happy accident" that would be one hell of an impressive ruse... to take false credit for something that hasn't even happened yet.

Hey you heard what you heard, I heard what i heard.
I like it anyway (unlike Diane Crack Head Lane)

 

[CelticPredator]

Cap is only a hero in heart but his physical attributes prevented him from making a difference as he kept being denied for service. It wasnt until he was injected with the super solider serum that his physical attributes allowed him to shine and put his noble, selfless intentions into action and enable him to shine. I think that was the point of his character arc, he always had what it took- the selfless, self sacrificing mentality which is why he was chosen. However I he was not a hero from the start because he was limited by his physique. Yes he was pure of heart and had the right stuff but it wasn't until his physical capabilities were enhanced that he truly became a complete hero.

But him, as a person, was good from the start. A lot of these characters are either jaded, cynical, narcissistic, or other negative things before they're forced to be good, and save the day.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

I have no problem with heroes who are heroic from the start. The problem from a story standpoint is that there is no room for growth. Where does your hero go from perfection?

The meat of superhero movie storytelling is in the characters growing throughout.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

But have we actually seen a hero who isn't good from the start? Maybe Wolverine and Batman?

Do you mean a good person?

Blade was eating people before Whistler came along. Now he's sort of on a quest for vengeance/redemption.

Logan in the movies is never really shown to be the monster he was in the comics.

I can't think of others.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

But him, as a person, was good from the start. A lot of these characters are either jaded, cynical, narcissistic, or other negative things before they're forced to be good, and save the day.

Kal/Clark was shown to be a good person from the start he only held back out of respect for his adopted father. The original peter Parker was also a good person from the start of his journey.

Batman, ironman, thor, hulk were all sort of ****ed up. The worst was green lantern because he was arrogant *** that they expected us to have empathy for just because his dad died when he was a kid

 

[CelticPredator]

It's not that I think every hero should be like that. But I see Devin's point.

A character like Wolverine shouldn't be a good person, nor should a character like The Punisher.

But Superman should be the most likable dude in existence, I feel.

 

[IrishJedi]

The meat of superhero movie storytelling is in the characters growing throughout.

I disagree. Sure, that's great for some characters and stories, but not all. We do need some hero archetypes that are nearly flawless ideals. That is basic mythology and has been part of human culture since the very beginning. It's in our DNA (many of us, anyway).

And it's time for DC, Marvel and Hollywood to stop chasing the late 80s work of Moore and Miller. It's just not going to happen. That stuff was lightning in a bottle. It was also nearly 3 decades ago.

 

[CelticPredator]

Agreed 4,000,000,000 %

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

I disagree. Sure, that's great for some characters and stories, but not all. We do need some hero archetypes that are nearly flawless ideals. That is basic mythology and has been part of human culture since the very beginning. It's in our DNA (many of us, anyway).

And it's time for DC, Marvel and Hollywood to stop chasing the late 80s work of Moore and Miller. It's just not going to happen. That stuff was lightning in a bottle. It was also nearly 3 decades ago.

What kind of stories could you tell with a flawless character?

Would'nt it be exactly what we have with the good guy defeating the bad guy and saving people just without character development, personal relationships ect?

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Kal/Clark was shown to be a good person from the start he only held back out of respect for his adopted father. The original peter Parker was also a good person from the start of his journey.

Batman, ironman, thor, hulk were all sort of ****ed up. The worst was green lantern because he was arrogant *** that they expected us to have empathy for just because his dad died when he was a kid

I agree on Kal and the Raimi Peter Parker.

Bruce's tragedy is his defining moment so it's not fair to lump him in with Tony and Thor.

Thor and Tony are arrogant jerks oblivious to their own place in the world. Both are shown humility and then become heroes.

GL was just a horrible interpretation of the comic. The less said about it, the better.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

What kind of stories could you tell with a flawless character?

The passion of the Christ. Uhm that's about it because humans aren't flawless by nature.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Prof Xavier is also a definitive good guy from the start.

 

[jye4ever]

Xavier is also a definitive good guy from the start.

Good point, was he always 100% pro living harmoniously with regular humans in the comics?

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

I disagree. Sure, that's great for some characters and stories, but not all. We do need some hero archetypes that are nearly flawless ideals. That is basic mythology and has been part of human culture since the very beginning. It's in our DNA (many of us, anyway).

And it's time for DC, Marvel and Hollywood to stop chasing the late 80s work of Moore and Miller. It's just not going to happen. That stuff was lightning in a bottle. It was also nearly 3 decades ago.

Other than Jesus(who no one would call a superhero) name me a flawless character in human literature or film that has endured.

Achilles - flawed
Hercules - flawed
Odysseus - flawed
King Arthur - flawed

They may have been noble, and not the reluctant hero, but they were far from perfect.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Good point, was he always 100% pro living harmoniously with regular humans in the comics?

At the start i believe so yes. In the comics has become really messed up overtime. Aside from dying a bunch of times, he subverted his own cause by doing questionable actions in secret in order to keep his cause going.