Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

So if there was no family to save where would it of ended? After the destruction of more cities?

It ended at the same time batman decided to kill Raz on the train- when the hero realized that the person could not be saved and had to be killed to prevent anymore damage to innocent civilians. Neither Zod or Raz would have stopped hence the end result

 

[GasparZizou]

He killed Doomsday, which is more an animal than a person. And he killed some alternate reality Kryptonians. But both were cases where his failure to do so could have doomed the entire planet or more, not simply saved one family (Superman had already defeated Zod in MOS and could presumably have incapacitated him in time). Though again I think those stories were unnecessary examinations into Superman. Joker could force Batman to rape a defenseless woman or risk his killing an orphanage full of children, but why go there?

You can always find a few exceptions to comic rules (Batman even killed in the comics), but as a general rule Superman did not and would not kill and as such, to my knowledge, there are very very few examples of it happening, all of which happening in a post-Crisis period. Zangetsu, if you are aware of more examples to support your argument then please share them. Elseworlds-type alternate realities don't count.

Zod was after revenge, he clearly said that he would kill every human, it was not just that one family, that family was the visual element of what letting Zod live represented.

He had no other choice, that simple.

 

[krec9]

Zod was after revenge, he clearly said that he would kill every human, it was not just that one family, that family was the visual element of what letting Zod live represented.

He had no other choice, that simple.

If he this bothers people so much was anything said when Batman killed Harvey Dent?

 

[Rugby1970]

"There's only one way this ends Kal, either you die, or I do."

"Don't do this. Stop!"
"Never."

Seems preety clear Zod was on board with how this was going to end. Kal had to realize that he meant business. Then handle things like his comic counterpart.

Yep. It was only a very last resort and even though the fight sequence happens very quickly, it's clear that Zod has the upper hand and is basically knocking the crap out of Clark for most of the fight.

Faora set much of this up in the first fight. She said Clark was weak and unsure of himself and his morality would never let him win. In the end, his morality was pushed to it's breaking point. This is good interesting stuff... we can debate whether is right or wrong but it's still fun to discuss. As in most drama, it's awesome to see someone pushed to their limits, even someone who is supposedly perfect like Superman.

 

[GasparZizou]

Yep. It was only a very last resort and even though the fight sequence happens very quickly, it's clear that Zod has the upper hand and is basically knocking the crap out of Clark for most of the fight.

Faora set much of this up in the first fight. She said Clark was weak and unsure of himself and his morality would never let him win. In the end, his morality was pushed to it's breaking point. This is good interesting stuff... we can debate whether is right or wrong but it's still fun to discuss. As in most drama, it's awesome to see someone pushed to their limits, even someone who is supposedly perfect like Superman.

This is why MoS does such a good job representing a greenhorn Superman.

Everything falls into place and really pictures an inexperienced Superman who is not "there yet".

 

[karamazov80]

My bigger point is, they didn't need to go there. It's not something Superman should have to grapple with IMO.

And Bats killing Dent to save the kid was much more acceptable than his allowing Ra's to bite it. Because in the latter case Batman really was responsible for Ra's death, intentionally setting that train on the way and then failing to save him. Dent was essentially forcing Batman to help him commit suicide. But I never cared for Nolan going there in either of those cases, either. I did applaud him for not killing Joker because Burton Batman's homicidal tendencies were clearly not present anymore Still, Nolan likes having his heroes kill villains out of necessity I guess.

 

[jye4ever]

Superman killing Zod is the last thing that bothered me about MOS.

 

[GasparZizou]

They didn't need to go there, as well as they didn't need to do many things in other movies, such as TDK trilogy, Superman 1&2 or Batman and Batman returns, they really don't need to go anywhere.

But it makes the story so much more interesting, and I'm glad that they did.

Sticking to the script the did need to go there.

 

[cerealkeller]

John Williams score for Superman is iconic and ever lasting. It immediately evokes the feeling of Superman, with Christopher Reeve flying, saving people from disaster and standing for truth, justice and the American way. Zimmers score is also a beautiful work of art, totally fitting the new Superman and his more tortured soul. I love it and listen to it while running, in particular tracks 2, 6, 8, 16 and 17. Just awesome music.

Point is both were fitting for their respective versions of Superman. There was no point in Man of Steel where I thought Williams score would have been fitting, not even the credits. And I LOVE John Williams and listen to his music all the time. I think Nolan made the right decision keeping John Williams not involved with Man of Steel. Hanz Zimmer got the job done and left us with new themes in which to apply to this new Superman. Will it be as recognizable as Williams theme 10 years from now? Doubtful but I still think it was the right move.

 

[karamazov80]

Superman killing Zod is the last thing that bothered me about MOS.

As a film, I'm with you. But as far as setting the stage for handling the character in the new live action DCU I think it's one of the most problematic things they did. Despite my various problems with the movie, most of what Superman actually did in this film felt right and made sense to me. Even the second guessing and going out to try to find himself, working menial jobs, etc. Maybe he didn't feel like a real person to me the whole time, but that could be hammered out later with better scripts/directors.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

He killed Doomsday, which is more an animal than a person. And he killed some alternate reality Kryptonians. But both were cases where his failure to do so could have doomed the entire planet or more, not simply saved one family (Superman had already defeated Zod in MOS and could presumably have incapacitated him in time). Though again I think those stories were unnecessary examinations into Superman. Joker could force Batman to rape a defenseless woman or risk his killing an orphanage full of children, but why go there?

You can always find a few exceptions to comic rules (Batman even killed in the comics), but as a general rule Superman did not and would not kill and as such, to my knowledge, there are very very few examples of it happening, all of which happening in a post-Crisis period. Zangetsu, if you are aware of more examples to support your argument then please share them. Elseworlds-type alternate realities don't count.

What??? Incapacitate him how? He doesn't know about Kryptonite, which would also kill him. He doesn't have the Donner magic power removal plot device. He doesn't even know about the effects of a red sun. Zod has had military training. Which made him the better fighter. Zod was a General, making him the superior strategist. He doesn't have a way to send Zod to the Phantom Zone. So what were his options?

Darkseid: Batman shot Darkseid, Superman sang his soul out of existence killing him in Final Crisis

Doomsday:

Zod

Mr Mxy

Ursa

Non

Quex-Ul

Parademons: He kills them without even blinking in every incarnation

Pre 1950: He blew up Nazi subs, watched criminals die when he could have saved them, strangles a Nazi helicopter pilot with his bare hands

The Original Metallo

Want more?

 

[GasparZizou]

 

[Rugby1970]

My bigger point is, they didn't need to go there. It's not something Superman should have to grapple with IMO.

And Bats killing Dent to save the kid was much more acceptable than his allowing Ra's to bite it. Because in the latter case Batman really was responsible for Ra's death, intentionally setting that train on the way and then failing to save him. Dent was essentially forcing Batman to help him commit suicide. But I never cared for Nolan going there in either of those cases, either. I did applaud him for not killing Joker. Nolan likes having his heroes kill villains out of necessity I guess.

Fair enough. I totally respect that.

For better or worse, Goyer, The Nolans, and Snyder like pushing the boundries and seeing what sticks. They're trying to tell dramatic stories that will stand alongside classic comics like The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Miracleman, Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow, All Star Superman, John Byrne's Man Of Steel and Batman Year One which all took huge risks with their stories. Sometimes they fail and sometimes they succeed but I like that they're trying and it made me cheer for Clark more in the movie (not cheering the neck breaking but cheering for someone who was trying to desperately to do the right things at every moment). They're not content to re-intrpret but to add to the canon somehow.

Again, it's not for everyone but I'm enjoying what they're doing.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

What??? Incapacitate him how? He doesn't know about Kryptonite, which would also kill him. He doesn't have the Donner magic power removal plot device. He doesn't even know about the effects of a red sun. Zod has had military training. Which made him the better fighter. Zod was a General, making him the superior strategist. He doesn't have a way to send Zod to the Phantom Zone. So what were his options?

Darkseid: Batman shot Darkseid, Superman sang his soul out of existence killing him in Final Crisis

Doomsday:

Zod

Mr Mxy

Ursa

Non

Quex-Ul

Parademons: He kills them without even blinking in every incarnation

Pre 1950: He blew up Nazi subs, watched criminals die when he could have saved them, strangles a Nazi helicopter pilot with his bare hands

The Original Metallo

Want more?

Good post man, I was about to post the same thing. To be honest the minute I saw the other kryptonians sent to the phantom zone with zod left behind, I knew he was going to die. There is no prison on earth that could have held zod. If you can't incarcerate a murderous lunatic, the only other option is death right?

Since I knew zod was going to die I kind of figured it would be supes. Zod wanted to die, he even said it. The only one on earth that could possible kill him is supes. Don't see the big deal here or why people were even surprised/shocked it happened

 

[krec9]

My bigger point is, they didn't need to go there. It's not something Superman should have to grapple with IMO.

And Bats killing Dent to save the kid was much more acceptable than his allowing Ra's to bite it. Because in the latter case Batman really was responsible for Ra's death, intentionally setting that train on the way and then failing to save him. Dent was essentially forcing Batman to help him commit suicide. But I never cared for Nolan going there in either of those cases, either. I did applaud him for not killing Joker because Burton Batman's homicidal tendencies were clearly not present anymore Still, Nolan likes having his heroes kill villains out of necessity I guess.

Same thing superman did it for that family no different then gordons family and yet no one complained about it.

 

[GasparZizou]

Good post man, I was about to post the same thing. To be honest the minute I saw the other kryptonians sent to the phantom zone with zod left behind, I knew he was going to die. There is no prison on earth that could have held zod. If you can't incarcerate a person the only other option is death right?

Even more if he was threatening a family in front of his eyes.

 

[IrishJedi]

This wasn't the first time Supes has had Zod in a headlock.

 

[IrishJedi]

Blah, blah, blah... Nit, nit, nit... pick, pick, pick...

MAN OF STEEL is a success.

You mad, bros?

 

[GasparZizou]

This wasn't the first time Supes has had Zod in a headlock.

I like this, this is pretty.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

Blah, blah, blah... Nit, nit, nit... pick, pick, pick...

MAN OF STEEL is a success.

You mad, bros?

irish I would consider naming my next child after you if you could get me in the room with that suit. I would also throw in my own soul if you get me in the room with the suit and Faora...

Awesome pic!! Love this film.