MARVEL' S Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[matticus]

So Isaiah escaped camp, rescued the POWS, then went after the WS, destroyed half of his arm, but he can't fight back in getting imprisoned and experimented on? Just not logical to me. And to drop that big deal in a 6 episode show with Walker, Carter, Flag Smashers AND Zemo? Too much!

 

[Sassafras]

Not trying to stir anything up but can anyone tell me why Isiah tried to make his jailing and being experimented on a race thing? It makes no sense to me. Government willingly gives a black man an extremely powerful serum, a serum powerful enough to cause some real problems for the US government, but trusts him nonetheless. After disobeying direct orders, he is jailed. Then after they all die but him, then experimented on. That doesn?t scream racist to me just a tyrannical power hungry government. Are we seriously thinking that Cap or any other white guy wouldn?t have been experimented on back then if they made it back and no serum sources were available? Government used both Steve and Isiah. Only difference is Steve failed to make it back to be experimented on and Isiah made it back after defying orders. Still ****** and I feel for Isiah, but yeesh I?m with Khev, lots of attempts at white male guilt. Really annoying and tiring. Not to mention ironic considering Disney? treatment of white male characters in Star Wars.... kill em all of em and make em evil...

*Shrug* Think the larger context is the MCU starts out fairly classic with the Avengers being a mixed group where it's mostly about the story; then Disney looks around and sees an untapped, and up and coming source of ticket sales, while at the same time you have articles whining about being represented. Disney leaped on a potential gold mine.

(And I am cynical about it all because it wasn't until the MCU was a success that everyone wanted to ride that gravy train; when all these decades there's been NOTHING to stop anyone at any time from writing or producing anything they wanted. Like, yah know, Blade.)

To paraphrase a comment from the People vs. George Lucas, film is a product of its time. And at the moment, Spellman and his writers decided to cram multiple issues from the ugly Tuskegee experiments to profiling and even a bit about people with disabilities and how they are viewed; to immigrant rights, into 5-6 hours. I'll give Spellman credit; he was pretty open about doing what he was gonna do in articles early on. For me, where it goes wrong is the overload, same as Captain Marvel laying it on too thick.

VS. a film like Civil War that focused, basically, on 2 things - the potential abuse of superior power and guilt/innocence. If they'd left FWS at a couple of racial questions, fine, that's relevant.

But FWS just goes on. It's a fatiguing and occasional cringe overload, especially if you already know the historical references and don't wanna rewatch an uber-documentary. (Personally don't think Bradley took a trained assassin-sniper arm off in A KOREAN BAR where'd you be seen coming a mile away, because, gee, u sure don't look KOREAN. Especially if the trained assassin is already on alert from previous attempts - and how does that happen anyway? Bucky was put on ice between missions; he wasn't hanging out in bars)

IMO if this series is a success - and IMO that remains to be seen - it'll be for the same reasons any other film or series becomes a classic or rewatchable - a good story with good writing and performances, and not the barrage of socio-political lecturing. Dunno maybe those people who were crying over Black Panther as a masterpiece (it wasn't) luv this kind of stuff, but for me it's like, can we get on already? *Fast forward* to Zemo.... aaaah, that's better.

For me, it's not knowing when to throttle back on the lecturing, that makes this a "B" not an "A" - even tho there's been some fantastic stuff like Walker and the Dora Milaje, details, settings, and performances.

 

[chrisstbh]

So Isaiah escaped camp, rescued the POWS, then went after the WS, destroyed half of his arm, but he can't fight back in getting imprisoned and experimented on? Just not logical to me. And to drop that big deal in a 6 episode show with Walker, Carter, Flag Smashers AND Zemo? Too much!

So, he either gets arrested, or he fights back and becomes a fugitive and on the run for the rest of his days anyway? What a choice.

 

[jye4ever]

They needed this ONE black super soldier to hate whites and then tell Sam, another black superhero, to walk away from the shield because it is owned by white people who would NEVER accept Sam as Captain America so that when Sam decides to ignore the bitter old man’s wishes and takes on the shield it carried significant weight.

It is very realistic to find ONE black person who hates whites you know lol

White guilt I suffer from it every time I walk by a box of crayons.

 

[The Buffinator]

They needed this ONE black super soldier to hate whites and then tell Sam, another black superhero, to walk away from the shield because it is owned by white people who would NEVER accept Sam as Captain America so that when Sam decides to ignore the bitter old man?s wishes and takes on the shield it carried significant weight.

It is very realistic to find ONE black person who hates whites you know lol

White guilt I suffer from it every time I walk by a box of crayons.

So you're saying it's been a while since you've seen a box of crayons....

 

[jye4ever]

My son is still school age lol

He just started high school:

 

[The Buffinator]

My son is still school age lol

He just started high school:

View attachment 511204

He's a cute little guy! Gets his looks from mom no doubt (I'm assuming he's the one on the right).

 

[matticus]

They needed this ONE black super soldier to hate whites and then tell Sam, another black superhero, to walk away from the shield because it is owned by white people who would NEVER accept Sam as Captain America so that when Sam decides to ignore the bitter old man’s wishes and takes on the shield it carried significant weight.

It is very realistic to find ONE black person who hates whites you know lol

White guilt I suffer from it every time I walk by a box of crayons.

But we had to hear his lecture twice in addition to Sam's sister and Curly McFlagsmasher.

 

[jye4ever]

He's a cute little guy! Gets his looks from mom no doubt (I'm assuming he's the one on the right).

Oh the kid on the right I have no idea who that is my kids are on the left lol

But we had to hear his lecture twice in addition to Sam's sister and Curly McFlagsmasher.

Yet Sam will still take on the Cap mantle as a way to show that ultimately humans will find a way to survive by rejecting extreme views be they Isiahs or Walkers.

 

[e30ernest]

O she was on agents of shield. Damn that show is officially retconned lol

Nah she was in an alternate reality (Matrix really) where Hydra defeated SHIELD. In real life, she was an LMD/AI gone rogue and that world was what she created.

Yeah I don?t agree either lol

I think she's hotter.

 

[DioramaMaker]

Oh the kid on the right I have no idea who that is my kids are on the left lol



Yet Sam will still take on the Cap mantle as a way to show that ultimately humans will find a way to survive by rejecting extreme views be they Isiahs or Walkers.

I think that's the point people are failing to grasp. Isaiah was A) wronged in a manner that parallels real world history and B) punished for doing something that Steve was lauded for. We create an inherently polarized character by this, who has the right to think the way he does. But by having Sam reject the notion of extremes, he's creating a character capable of learning from the past to reject implicit bias which surrounds both sides of the sociopolitical discussion implied by that story arc. If this was so woke as some desire to interpret it as, Sam would have blindly agreed with Isaiah. But the point is that you can learn from extremes and that even with justification, your conclusions or your blame are not always the right ones.

As far as Walker goes, it would seem that someone as decorated as he is would very much be a public figure already. I don't think it's a stretch that he'd be the one to be picked. Now the court ruling...harsh in reality sure, I agree. BUT, as far as moving into a more fictional world/narrative, you need something to A) separate him completely from the Captain America mantle and B) push him over the edge and join whatever team is being assembled by being so isolated. The point is for us to feel sympathy for him, despite his actions. And Wyatt delivers on that. I saw a lot of Kurt in him when he tried to defend himself in court. That was well done.

 

[e30ernest]

He's a cute little guy! Gets his looks from mom no doubt (I'm assuming he's the one on the right).

Oh the kid on the right I have no idea who that is my kids are on the left lol

 

[The Buffinator]

I think she's hotter.

Well DUH! Yes of course she's hotter, but we were calling BS on your claiming to not know Julia Louis-Dreyfus prior to her appearance in this episode.

 

[jye4ever]

I think that's the point people are failing to grasp. Isaiah was A) wronged in a manner that parallels real world history and B) punished for doing something that Steve was lauded for. We create an inherently polarized character by this, who has the right to think the way he does. But by having Sam reject the notion of extremes, he's creating a character capable of learning from the past to reject implicit bias which surrounds both sides of the sociopolitical discussion implied by that story arc. If this was so woke as some desire to interpret it as, Sam would have blindly agreed with Isaiah. But the point is that you can learn from extremes and that even with justification, your conclusions or your blame are not always the right ones.

As far as Walker goes, it would seem that someone as decorated as he is would very much be a public figure already. I don't think it's a stretch that he'd be the one to be picked. Now the court ruling...harsh in reality sure, I agree. BUT, as far as moving into a more fictional world/narrative, you need something to A) separate him completely from the Captain America mantle and B) push him over the edge and join whatever team is being assembled by being so isolated. The point is for us to feel sympathy for him, despite his actions. And Wyatt delivers on that. I saw a lot of Kurt in him when he tried to defend himself in court. That was well done.

Big time Kurt during that scene especially the eyes and the voice as well.

 

[jye4ever]

Well DUH! Yes of course she's hotter, but we were calling BS on your claiming to not know Julia Louis-Dreyfus prior to her appearance in this episode.

I think JLD makes for a great MILF lol

 

[e30ernest]

Well DUH! Yes of course she's hotter, but we were calling BS on your claiming to not know Julia Louis-Dreyfus prior to her appearance in this episode.

Oh it took me a few looks to recognize her fully hahahaha! But no, I did not Lynda Carter it.

 

[The Buffinator]

Big time Kurt during that scene especially the eyes and the voice as well.

He should wear an eyepatch for any future MCU appearances. "John Walker? I thought you were dead."

 

[The Buffinator]

Oh it took me a few looks to recognize her fully hahahaha! But no, I did not Lynda Carter it.

I haven't the fainted idea as to what you're referring.

 

[e30ernest]

I haven't the fainted idea as to what you're referring.

 

[punisher1974]

He should wear an eyepatch for any future MCU appearances. "John Walker? I thought you were dead."

Or I thought you would be taller. Either works for sure.