Marvel Studios/Sony - SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

See...? She'll be back as a good guy/helper.

Stupid. No one dies. Just an ever-expanding cast of characters to the point of ridiculousness like IW. The amount of hero characters is a ****ing joke.

Well, Thanos is obsessed with the entity of death in the comics. Hela is the goddess of death in the MCU, so there is a chance that Thanos is obsessed with her in IW.

I hope not, death should be an entity, not a woman wearing a cape and a big hat.

 

[pturtle]

Wow, forget the villain problem, MCU needs a better third act

I do like Dr. Strange's final battle.

Yea, compared to the rest of the MCU, it has more personality and charm. It was a fitting ending.

I think the horrible villain problem and the terrible 3rd acts go hand and hand because of the lack of focus on villains there's never any real proper build up to a final showdown. Marvel usually just rushes their 3rd acts.

I think Homecoming might actually actually take the cake though. I can't remember a final battle that anticlimactic.


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[Wor-Gar]

No good villain + no final showdown = movie Wor-Gar hates!

Everything is pointless without a good climax!

 

[jye4ever]

Best Fight: Winter Soldier/Captain America/Black Widow

Hell yeah plus I do love the battles in CW especially that double leg kick in the beginning that Cap gives that guy ontop of the van shooting him into the side of the building.

Geez you're right.

Yeah unfortunate they went the night time battle route.

It would've been cool had the plane been a set up by Stark to trap Vulture, maybe it was.

 

[jye4ever]

SH end battle is kinetic energy ballet compared to the action in those X-Men movies though.

Even TDK has little to no action.

 

[Wor-Gar]

See, Crossbones should have been Winter Soldier 2 in terms of kick-ass fighting. They killed him off in seconds, but in those few seconds he became one of the best MCU villains.

 

[Khev]

See, Crossbones should have been Winter Soldier 2 in terms of kick-ass fighting. They killed him off in seconds, but in those few seconds he became one of the best MCU villains.

I loved Crossbones, in fact I'd put him above Vulture too.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Great climaxes: Star Wars, Jaws, Raiders, Ghostbusters, Back to the Future, Predator, Matrix, Curse of the Black Pearl... for examples.

Bad Climaxes that are way too drawn out: TDK, anything Marvel, anything done by Peter Jackson

 

[Khev]

Okay I should have nipped this derail in the bud but you guys sucked me in, lol. People were having a nice back and forth about Homecoming and their thread has been totally hijacked. Best to continue the Nolan stuff in their own threads. pturtle we all heard you that Homecoming is yet another good movie that you hate. No one will forget that so you don't have to worry about whether we need to be constantly reminded...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I've heard that one. But I thought we were talking about that end line by Gordon.

That was just an example of a line that people use, that you might have seen outside of comic book circles. The same applies to the Gordon line, but like I said, people unknowingly say it wrong. They'll say things like, "He's the one we deserve, but not the one we need" or "That's the one we deserve, not the one we need" or the shorter version, "The one we deserve, and don't need"

I just saw this article from last month using the line...no idea what's about


"The Crucible Reprint We Deserve, Not the One We Need"
https://blog.mtgprice.com/2017/06/27/the-crucible-reprint-we-deserve-not-the-one-we-need/



Anyway, Keaton in Homecoming had a good line too "Times are changing boys"

 

[ironwez20]

Yeah true but so far MCU is on a perfect track record even with GOTG2 not hitting 1B.

SH not beating the 2 movies that caused the reboot movement to begin with over to the MCU would not only be highly embarrassing for Marvel Studios but also a possible foreboding sign that IW might suffer the same fate.

Hell its not the movies fault. It's those idiots that rebooted in 2010 with a new spiderman. Had they just let raimi make a 4th and 5th. We'd probably have a Very accurate rendition of civil war . Then they made sub par movies that caused spiderman fatigue. So it made people wary. The movie had a low budget. They probably weren't expecting a huge warning but it still made money. But spidey is has a lot of damage done to his brand going from those crappy movies to the horrible ultimate tv show. It's sad that the likes of a dumb stupid talking tree and Thor are being more respected then the crown jewel of marvel himself.

 

[PopCultKid]

I love Obadiah. Don't know why he gets a bad wrap by some. I love Crossbones too. I think he solidified himself as a bad ass baddie with minimal screen time and no deep motivation other than being a bad MF.

I really like Vulture but why I like him and interpret his motives is differently than most it seems. Everyone likes him because he's "relatable". I like him because he absolutely has an evil streak. What drove him was clearly more than "providing for his family". That was the guise, and maybe his own disillusion, but he was doing nothing noble. It started out that way when he was simply running a construction company salvaging the Chituari wrecks, but he crossed over to the dark side the second he started stealing to flood the streets with hi tech weapons they developed. And he wouldn't hesitate to kill whoever got in the way of his flow. That's more than the average family man with the chips down is willing to do.

As far as the fight scenes, I think all are good and I appreciate the choice they made. The final fight is just missing a couple ingredients to be really tasty.

Spoiler

ATM scene was great.

The truck heist was quick and I guess had to be or the drivers would've been alerted, but one more quick slick Spidey move would've added a lot.

Ferry was great but some more Spidey acrobatics would've put it over the top. Nothing drastic. Like a few flips or contortions to dodge the beams while he was webbing up the gun Vulture drops when it went wild. That and another act like it, and the ferry scene's stock would've rose considerably.

I like the plane scene. Putting Spidey out of his comfort zone was a fresh idea. I think it fell short when it hit the beach. If it had just 1 more minute of scrapping, it would've been received much better. Like have Peter webbing some debris from the wreck and hurling it at Vulture while he swatted them away with his wings, and a couple more displays of their skills like that. Quick. One more minute and a few slick moves on both parts. That's all it needed.

I do love Vulture grasping him and bashing him on the ground until he's out for the count. The image of a limp, beaten and defeated Spidey dangling from the tip of his wing is a very Spidey moment.

I still like what we were given but just a sprinkle here and there could've been a sizable improvement

 

[Khev]

I didn't have a problem with any of the action sequences visually or conceptually, and like you I loved that so many of them took Spidey out of his classic comfort zone. You can conduct a battle pretty much anywhere on the planet and Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Thor, etc., will pretty much fight the same way. But this movie, unlike really any other iteration I've seen in and out of comics, really drove home just how much Spidey needs those skyscrapers. Put him on a plane, random neighborhood, or a golf course (lol) and it really changes the nature of how he operates. I really liked that.

But the ferry, truck roof, and Avengers plane just didn't have quite enough follow-through to be fully satisfying, IMO. The whole reason I gave the film a 7.5 or 7.75 rating instead of an 8 or higher was due to the action. Visually it was a true feast. But we didn't get an action sequence that established Vulture the way the parade established DeFoe's Green Goblin or the Operating Room instantly established the nastiness of Doc Ock. I really wish we had something like that in this movie.

I loved watching Spidey's wall-crawling abilities pushed to (and a bit past) their limits on the Washington Monument and Avengers plane. I actually winced a bit seeing his hands slide when he almost lost his hold in both instances. The plane scene was cool (LOVED the visual of his image being transposed across the hull as he obstructed the plane's cloaking device) but when it crashed in front of what appeared to be a vacant amusement park I thought "sweet! Amusement park at night, awesome locale for a final battle!"

Spoiler

And then Vulture picks up some bombs and takes himself out less than a minute later.

So I thought all of what we got was good to great, but there just needed to be a little more of said goodness/greatness.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Seeing this tonight, hopefully the CGI is better on spidey this time around than what we got in CW.

Hopefully I waited long enough to avoid kids too.

 

[Khev]

I thought the CGI was very good in Homecoming. In CW when they cut to Holland on the tarmac with his face partially showing you can totally tell that his live-action suit didn't match the CGI. But in Homecoming I at least found it to be virtually seamless.

And absolutely see this in 3D if you can. Awesome and almost unnerving vertigo in a couple parts.

 

[ZaCHw117]

I would love to see it in 3D but it gives me a massive headache the last few years.. it sucks, but it is what it is I guess.

Glad to hear the CGI is good.

I've stayed spoiler free somehow, but how many stingers are there after the credits? Just one?

 

[Khev]

There's the customary mid-credits scene after the initial montage and then a final scene at the very end. If you really have stayed spoiler free up until now then I'd steer clear of this thread until you see it tonight. There's at least one really big moment you don't want spoiled.

 

[ZaCHw117]

There's the customary mid-credits scene after the initial montage and then a final scene at the very end. If you really have stayed spoiler free up until now then I'd steer clear of this thread until you see it tonight. There's at least one really big moment you don't want spoiled.

Awesome thanks for the heads up khev.

 

[Khev]

 

[Sassafras]

My fear is that this movie tops out below ASM1/2 world wide gross!

That would no doubt be considered Feige's first failure.

Yeesh, for me these BO comparisons in the press by numbers alone and turning BO into a sporting event drive me crazy. They never take details into account like:

With the Summer 2017 box office already down from last year, it seems that those box office analysts who have been predicting that the Summer 2017 box office will be the lowest in a decade, may yet prove to be correct. Failing that, 2017 will go down as having the lowest Memorial Weekend domestic box office turnout in almost two decades, going back to when Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace opened atop the U.S. box office.

https://screenrant.com/memorial-weekend-box-office-2017-lowest3)1999/

1) For whatever reason, seems like it's one of those years when folks aren't falling over themselves go to the movies.
2) At some point, there's gotta be a limit to any movie re BO profit. I don't know the highest grossing domestic BO movie ever (Titanic?) but it had to top out sometime.
3) Home viewing tech improves every year. So IMO you need to factor in comparing profits to folks who can sit at home with their own custom theater.
4) This Spidey had an uphill battle thanks to recent Spiderman movies. He's also depicted as a teenager. Not everyone is into that.

I think this Spidey will do what POTC1 and 2 did - POTC1 opened less than POTC2. By POTC2, the Pirates franchise had built a following.
https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/0...s-of-the-caribbean-movies-box-office-openings

Think when this Spidey hits the home market (not that it's not a success already) the folks sitting around at home finally watch it and go "d@mn, this is a good movie!" Plus the bounce from an appearance in IW.

Finally I think Marvel thought long and hard about Spidey in a lot of meetings. Like the "saturation" problem. Like dealing with whether to talk about Uncle Ben, or not. They're probably pretty happy right now at Marvel. This could have been a disaster, no matter how good the film is.
Lots of good films have poor BO. Because you can wait a few weeks and just download.