McCain Shocker!

[barbelith]

I don't think a child should stop any woman's life and speaks volumes to the fact she feels she's capable of handling the task of raising her child along with the job.

Of course she feels she's capable. She's never had a job more taxing than the equivalent of being the mayor of Memphis. How many hours a day do you realistically think ^^^^ Cheney has available to devote to family issues?

 

[devilof76]

That's the implication of your many comments. I don't think I can name a single person whose opinions I have agreed with 100% of the time.

A person's underlying philosophy is the source of their derivative beliefs. Identifying the association between Obama and Wright demands consideration of which beliefs the two share. I'm not willing to write off associations because they may have tangential disagreements. Twenty years in the same church is indicative of a coherence between the two men's general points of view.

I'm not giving Obama a pass. Obama said he did not agree with Wright's remarks. That makes this a non-issue for me.

Why would a man vying for the highest office in the Federal government publically state that he agreed with another man's most hare-brained and bigoted remarks?

But that's beside the point. Wright's crackpot comments are less important than his deeper convictions, namely his socialistic slant, which it would take a world class evader to deny that Obama did not share.

Why does the association with Wright need to be pointed out? I don't know. William Ayer is a much more important indicator of those who Obama gives his personal sanction to. Even that isn't really necessary to understand how socialistic the man's political philosophy is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48011-2004Jul13.html

Maybe I should have specified 'unjust' employment of the act.

 

[wofford29]

Of course she feels she's capable. She's never had a job more taxing than the equivalent of being the mayor of Memphis. How many hours a day do you realistically think ^^^^ Cheney has available to devote to family issues?

^^^^ Cheney is a robot.

I'm just saying I've met women in impovershed countries that live a life more taxing and stressful than the one Palin will ever know and raise multiple children just fine. I'm not saying Palin is even a good mother, just that it's not outside the realm of possibility she could handle it. I also think it provides a potential interesting family dynamic if her husband takes on a larger maternal role. Not saying it's the case, but it'll be interesting to see the acceptance if it plays out that way. Maybe we'll see a resurgance in popularity in the underrated film "Mr. Mom."

 

[barbelith]

A person's underlying philosophy is the source of their derivative beliefs. Identifying the association between Obama and Wright demands consideration of which beliefs the two share. I'm not willing to write off associations because they may have tangential disagreements. Twenty years in the same church is indicative of a coherence between the two men's general points of view.

But not their specifics, which is what we're dealing with here. Especially since we're only dealing with some clips specially chosen by the right wing smear machine and not the 20 years of sermons Obama says did not include those messages.

Why would a man vying for the highest office in the Federal government publically state that he agreed with another man's most hare-brained and bigoted remarks?

You haven't shown that they're bigoted. And rather than invent conspiracy theories, why not simply accept Obama at his word?

But that's beside the point. Wright's crackpot comments are less important than his deeper convictions, namely his socialistic slant, which it would take a world class evader to deny that Obama did not share.

Obama is not a socialist. He and McCain both support certain socialist ideals. Almost all capitalists support certain socialist ideas. The US military is one of the largest employers in the nation. Hands up everyone here who objects to that socialist institution.

 

[devilof76]

But not their specifics, which is what we're dealing with here. Especially since we're only dealing with some clips specially chosen by the right wing smear machine and not the 20 years of sermons Obama says did not include those messages.

I'm not. I'm talking about the 20 years of sermons, from which Obama drew inspiration, and through which Wright expressed his own deepest convictions.

You haven't shown that they're bigoted. And rather than invent conspiracy theories, why not simply accept Obama at his word?

I am taking him at his word. And his word conveys a sympathy for the basic ideas of individuals such as Jeremiah Wright, Saul Alinsky, and William Ayer.

And yes, I believe that there is a clear bigotry against the American principles of free trade, sanctity of property, and voluntary association. Principles which are routinely denigrated as 'white'.

Obama is not a socialist.

Neither was Lenin.

He and McCain both support certain socialist ideals. Almost all capitalists support certain socialist ideas. The US military is one of the largest employers in the nation. Hands up everyone here who objects to that socialist institution.

The defense of the nation is one of the only legitimate functions of government. There is nothing socialistic about it, except perhaps the fact that it is financed through compulsory taxation. Socialism is a system in which the government controls the economic aspects of civilian life. A capitalist nation would have a military without being one iota socialist in so far as it's financing was voluntary.

A man who has already made clear that he would increase taxes (particularly on the highest incomes) is not a man looking in the direction of free markets.

And for the record, 'capitalists' who support socialist ideas are notcapitalists. They are confused as to the meaning of the word at best, and double-talking shysters at worst.

 

[barbelith]

I'm not. I'm talking about the 20 years of sermons, from which Obama drew inspiration, and through which Wright expressed his own deepest convictions.

Right. You haven't heard those sermons and you don't know what parts of them Obama may have considered and rejected. Your entire position here is based on supposition.

I am taking him at his word. And his word conveys a sympathy for the basic ideas of individuals such as Jeremiah Wright, Saul Alinsky, and William Ayer.

And now we're a step away from the "Obama is a racist who hates America" smear that nobody ever seems to back up with any sort of hard evidence.

And yes, I believe that there is a clear bigotry against the American principles of free trade, sanctity of property, and voluntary association. Principles which are routinely denigrated as 'white'.

Isn't it great that you live in a country that tolerates your extremist viewpoint?

The defense of the nation is one of the only legitimate functions of government.

I don't share that opinion. In any event I believe defense takes many forms, including economic security and individual health care.

A man who has already made clear that he would increase taxes (particularly on the highest incomes) is not a man looking in the direction of free markets.

Only on the highest incomes. And that has nothing to do with free markets.

And for the record, 'capitalists' who support socialist ideas are notcapitalists.

By that token Obama is not a socialist since he supports capitalist ideas.

 

[Khev]

Best line of the night:
"Some people use change to promote their careers. Some people use their careers to promote change."

Oh, and I'll take her executive experience anyday over Obama sitting in the Senate and voting "present".

Exactly, especially when you realize what he actually votes present on.

Fantastic speech. I'd love to see her in office.

 

[tomandshell]

I was skeptical going in, but I enjoyed the speech.

 

[devilof76]

Right. You haven't heard those sermons and you don't know what parts of them Obama may have considered and rejected. Your entire position here is based on supposition.

Sitting in the pew, visiting the homes of, and practicing the methods of all add up to a sanction. There is no supposition involved. Perhaps he does not, for example, agree with Ayer's terrorism. It doesn't take a genius's powers of deduction to see that he shares elements of the man's ideology.

And now we're a step away from the "Obama is a racist who hates America" smear that nobody ever seems to back up with any sort of hard evidence.

And yet, I have not taken that step. Are you starting from the assumption that I'm going to take it, and doing what you can to deny anything that could possibly used to get there? You're throwing out the bathwater, and the baby hasn't even been put in it yet.

Isn't it great that you live in a country that tolerates your extremist viewpoint?

Tolerates? Explain April 15 for me.

I don't share that opinion. In any event I believe defense takes many forms, including economic security and individual health care.

Defense from our own shortcomings is not the business of government--the instiution in the country with a legal monompoly on the use of force. See below.

Only on the highest incomes. And that has nothing to do with free markets.

Bull. Freedom isn't freedom anymore once you put conditions on it. And you can apply this one to the next quote.

By that token Obama is not a socialist since he supports capitalist ideas.

Someone has to make the money he plans to handout. Even the Weimar social democrats allowed a modicum of freedom to their pet industrialists.

Socialism doesn't become any less socialism when it allows capitalist institutions to function in its midst. The same does not hold true for capitalism.

 

[automaton]

If you believe that Bush has taken away the Bill of Rights, then you should immediately get away from your computer and RUN! Do not even try to change clothes, Cheney is already hiding under your bed!

RUN, MAN! For the love of God, RUN!

educate yourself than we will speak.

 

[monkeydad16]

educate yourself than we will speak.

I need say no more.

 

[automaton]

I need say no more.

don't blame your vocabulary.

read over the Bill of Rights.. Due Process is gone... it was part of the Fifth Amendment... the other Amendments crumble with this shaken foundation...

There are no inherent powers at all that accrue to the President of the United States. He has enumerated powers which are listed in the Constitution itself...The President does not have the power to declare war on another country... but he did.
when i say educate yourself... i mean go beyond this country's media... check out the Foreign Press for a clear report of what has been going on in Congress...

 

[devilof76]

The President does not have the power to declare war on another country... but he did.

No he didn't. War was not declared against Iraq, and the decision to invade was approved by Congress.

And originally, declaration of war was the prerogative of the Executive Office.

 

[automaton]

yes, war was not "officially" declared... yet we are at war. Congress has not issued a formal declaration of war since it brought the United States into World War II... yet we are at war.

 

[bumblebee]

We officially delcared war on Iraq for the first gulf war, but not this time around.

 

[DarthNeil]

I'd rather A) not have to go through and delete all the nonsense personal attacks and/or B) not have to lock these political threads-- but if I had to choose between the two, it'll be a Stallone lock-down so please keep it civil guys. We're all "brothers & sisters" on here so state your opinion and thoughts but respect other's and their right to do so as well. Don't agree with everyone but please keep it civil.

Thanks.

 

[Adoptedscot]

DN speaks da truth
x

 

[Shai]

I'd vote for the black dude.

 

[El Roranous]

I wish I lived in Canada. I just don't like the cold.

 

[El Roranous]

Meanwhile, McCain's wife, Cindy, said she doesn't agree with Palin's opposition to abortion in cases of rape and incest. She also parts ways with Palin on sex education.

Palin opposes abortion and rejects the view that pregnancies caused by rape and incest should be exceptions.



From a yahoo news article. Discuss.