McCain Shocker!

[devilof76]

do you not understand that we no longer have a Republic anymore? the Bush regime has gotten rid of the Bill of Rights... all of our law and due process of law is based on habeas corpus. All of the constitutional links that made us literally a Republic have been done away with...

Habeas corpus was suspended to deal with suspected terrorists. Non-U.S. citizens in particular (i.e., Guantanamo Bay detainees). I can agree that if it's being used to hold citizens for whom no evidence of treason being committed can be produced, the action is unconstitutional, but if you think that our fundamental laws should be afforded to people who do not recognize our laws (or who have used their protections to undermine them), you're just plain wrong.

 

[nefarius1]

Because of the growing attitude change in Russia

if you want countries to hold your missile defence system then you have to be nice to them

I think the missle defense is foolish and antagonizing Russia is not in any one's best interest. I do feel that Europe has alot to worry about seeing that Russia is a major supplier of gas and oil to the continent if I understand correctly.

 

[monkeydad16]

do you not understand that we no longer have a Republic anymore? the Bush regime has gotten rid of the Bill of Rights... all of our law and due process of law is based on habeas corpus. All of the constitutional links that made us literally a Republic have been done away with...

If you believe that Bush has taken away the Bill of Rights, then you should immediately get away from your computer and RUN! Do not even try to change clothes, Cheney is already hiding under your bed!

RUN, MAN! For the love of God, RUN!

 

[Darklord Dave]

Someone up above mentioned that Palin agreed with T. Boone Pickens. Boone is all about natural gas - which is the first alternative fuel that Obama mentioned in his speech. He didn't mention Pickens, but he did have a whole section about energy.

 

[Karma]

I think the missle defense is foolish and antagonizing Russia is not in any one's best interest. I do feel that Europe has alot to worry about seeing that Russia is a major supplier of gas and oil to the continent if I understand correctly.

America are starting to import as well

Gas & oil supplies are finite

 

[devilof76]

America are starting to import as well

Gas & oil supplies are finite

They're assumed to be, but every prediction as to when those supplies would deplete since people started making the predictions, have been wrong.

 

[nefarius1]

America are starting to import as well

Gas & oil supplies are finite

Totally agree. I feel though that America and Europe have had strained relations and I do blame our current administration. I do think we need each other especially when it comes to Russia. Some of my countries foreign policy has antagonized her, but still wouldn't trust a KGB man like Putin who thinks Stalin was a great man.

 

[Darklord Dave]

They're assumed to be, but every prediction as to when those supplies would deplete since people started making the predictions, have been wrong.

Yes, they will be depleted much sooner than expected. Saudi Arabia kicked out the American gas companies in the 70s. At that time they said they estimated about 270 Billion in oil in their country. Since then they've shipped about 60 billion and yet their estimate has only been revised upwards.

 

[devilof76]

I think that's presumptive. Assuming that crude oil is a product of decomposed organic matter could well be a mistake. It has never been proved, and there are scientists who consider the hypothesis laughable. I'll see what I can dig up on it.

 

[nefarius1]

They're assumed to be, but every prediction as to when those supplies would deplete since people started making the predictions, have been wrong.

If I understand correctly, 30 billion barrels of crude (55 gallons to a barrel) was pumped out of the ground last year, refined and consumed. The demand continues to increase, but supply will always decrease. At that rate though, with projections of a half increase (40 billion barrels) in ten years says that the end may not be too far off. Also, the US consumes a quarter of the planets oil. So last year that was 7-8 billion barrels. There is estimated to be 80 Billion barrels offshore and in the artic. If we kept it for ourselves that would give us a decade then what?

 

[nefarius1]

I think that's presumptive. Assuming that crude oil is a product of decomposed organic matter could well be a mistake. It has never been proved, and there are scientists who consider the hypothesis laughable. I'll see what I can dig up on it.

You're talking abiotic oil theory which is a theory. If it's proven true great, but can we afford to be wrong?

 

[Karma]

If I understand correctly, 30 billion barrels of crude (55 gallons to a barrel) was pumped out of the ground last year, refined and consumed. The demand continues to increase, but supply will always decrease. At that rate though, with projections of a half increase (40 billion barrels) in ten years says that the end may not be too far off. Also, the US consumes a quarter of the planets oil. So last year that was 7-8 billion barrels. There is estimated to be 80 Billion barrels offshore and in the artic. If we kept it for ourselves that would give us a decade then what?

liberate another country

 

[hoodonit00]

If I understand correctly, 30 billion barrels of crude (55 gallons to a barrel) was pumped out of the ground last year, refined and consumed. The demand continues to increase, but supply will always decrease. At that rate though, with projections of a half increase (40 billion barrels) in ten years says that the end may not be too far off. Also, the US consumes a quarter of the planets oil. So last year that was 7-8 billion barrels. There is estimated to be 80 Billion barrels offshore and in the artic. If we kept it for ourselves that would give us a decade then what?

We use our own oil and use the money that it will us and the time it takes to use ours up to create an alternative energy source. In my opinion, we can not find alternative energy without using our own oil.

 

[nefarius1]

liberate another country

shhh...^^^^ Cheney's reading this don't you know

 

[devilof76]

You're talking abiotic oil theory which is a theory. If it's proven true great, but can we afford to be wrong?

It would be asinine to assume that oil was unlimited, but use of know quantities is the only way to reach an alternative. Spending less energy really isn't a solution.

 

[Spartan Rex]

It would seem that some cannot continue this thread without resulting to insults. I'm sorry that this forum isn't mature enough for this kind of discussion.

I intended to lock the thread - but given the next 3 months are going to be filled with this kind of discussion, it would be disingenuous to try and keep it off here.

Jokes are fine, but I'm going to be less tolerant of joking abuse in these kinds of threads as it only polarizes the participants and can be misconstrued.

Dang it wheres the defendent!?
He mustve slipped away during the faux lock.
I havent forgotten barbelith.

 

[hoodonit00]

Damn you people are party animals. I have work tommorow and have to go to bed. See ya on the flipside.

 

[barbelith]

I'd written a lengthy response only to find the thread locked when I went to post! So this will likely be much shorter than the original.

Had the concept of two people who agree with each other occurred to you? Where is it written that an association confers the status of cipher on the participants?

That's the implication of your many comments. I don't think I can name a single person whose opinions I have agreed with 100% of the time.

Why are you trying to give Obama a pass?

I'm not giving Obama a pass. Obama said he did not agree with Wright's remarks. That makes this a non-issue for me.

But aren't you for championing a woman's right to choose? She chose to go back to work.

Every choice isn't equal. I think it says volumes about her that she chose to go to work when her special needs child was two days old. I think it says a lot about her judgment that she's choosing to run for one of the most intensive jobs in the world when she has a special needs infant to care for.

Don't worry they will get you while you are alive, and you must not care about passing down a legacy to loved ones.

It's not a zero sum game.

Palin cut Alaska's budget by 268 million.

She also left Wasilla in debt. She seems to like debt. We wanted to use debt instead of available cash to pay for road works as governor. Why spend responsibly when you can pay more with interest later? But to be fair I don't think we can judge her civic financial sense yet. She just hasn't had enough experience to make a truly informed decision in either direction.

How has the Patriot Act directly affected you?

It has directly removed some of my civil rights. I don't know why you think that's not important. If you truly believe it's not then you would surely agree we can toss out the Bill of Rights. I doubt you'll go there, which means you're just posturing.

It's simple. Her and McCain believe in what I believe in.

That's a very good answer. It's why I'm voting for Obama even though I would prefer he had more experience.

Didn't Obama vote in favor of wiretapping even though he was initially against it?

Yes. The FISA bill traded telecoms immunity for the reinstatement of warrants. Obama was opposed to granting retroactive immunity for crimes but Bush said point blank he would not sign any security bill that did not let the phone companies off the hook. (It should be obvious why; the spy program was illegal and the carriers would likely have traded immunity deals for testimony in any legal action against Bush after he leaves office.) I am disappointed in the FISA vote but I'm a realpolitik guy - which is one reason I used to like and respect McCain before he went crawling back to the people who smeared him and sacrificed his integrity in hopes of winning the nomination.

Again sir, an example from your life that conveys the hardship that you endure due to the Patriot Act.

Should the people who say nothing controversial care about relinquishing the 1st Amendment?

Americans should care, why?

America exists in an increasingly global economy. We are a citizen of Earth. We've already seen what happens when we behave like a bull in a china shop. I'd prefer it if next time we didn't look surprised and say, "But what did I do?"

We don't have a ceasefire agreement with Africa.

How is that relevant to referencing genocide as a rationale for invasion?

I have yet to see evidence of the Patriot Act being used for something other than terrorist surveillance.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48011-2004Jul13.html

In the final analysis, payroll withholding and mandatory financial reporting are equally egregious violations of people's rights

Not really. You pay rent where you live.

 

[nefarius1]

We use our own oil and use the money that it will us and the time it takes to use ours up to create an alternative energy source. In my opinion, we can not find alternative energy without using our own oil.

Agree, provided we find something soon. Changing an oil based economy over will require energy.

 

[wofford29]

Every choice isn't equal. I think it says volumes about her that she chose to go to work when her special needs child was two days old. I think it says a lot about her judgment that she's choosing to run for one of the most intensive jobs in the world when she has a special needs infant to care for.

She could have just aborted the baby before it was born. I don't think a child should stop any woman's life and speaks volumes to the fact she feels she's capable of handling the task of raising her child along with the job. If she has the right to abort her child without judgement she has the right to work after the child without judgement. I know women that work a lot harder than she ever will in her position that raise their children just fine.