McCain Shocker!

[barbelith]

You are playing with words again. This is at least the third time in this thread. He is asking YOU what you have lost.

I used to have a 4th Amendment. Now I don't.
I used to have a 5th Amendment. Now I don't.
I used to have a 6th Amendment. Now I don't.

That's not playing with words. That's telling you three things I had eight years ago and which I don't have now. You might not agree rights are important but denying I've answered the question is transparent posturing. However I must confess it's interesting to see self-proclaimed conservatives be so cavalier about the piecemeal dismantling of the Bill of Rights. Quite a change from the Clinton years!

Like telling me I haven't read the 2nd Ammendment because I understand that arms means guns.

The 2nd Amendment means whatever the Supreme Court decides it means. But it doesn't actually say firearms and it certainly doesn't say assault weapons.

You're hilarious. What's the difference between that and Obama taking money from the oil companies and distributing it to the lower class.

I'm not pretending to be a free market capitalist opposed to government interference in the market.

No, but drilling our own oil will be cheaper then importing it from the middle east.

There's no reason to believe this. Without federal intervention there's nothing to prevent domestic drillers from selling their oil overseas at market prices, and what Republican is going to agree to the government telling a private business how and where to sell their wares?

 

[barbelith]

Oh look, Barak Obama has voted with his democratic collegue 96% of the time.

The difference is the public thinks Bush is the worst president in history.

 

[hoodonit00]

Heres some misunderstood criminals.
https://https://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/24/home.invasion.ap/index.html

https://https://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/14/lsu.slaying/

https://https://mnhomeinvasionwatch.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

https://https://wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1472220

https://https://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/latest/lat_406733.shtml

This is related to the first case, just more detail.https://https://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/25/national/main3095614.shtml?source=mostpop_story

Theres more, but I tire of posting.

 

[devilof76]

The 2nd Amendment means whatever the Supreme Court decides it means. But it doesn't actually say firearms and it certainly doesn't say assault weapons.

The second amendment means what it says. The words are plain. The right to bear "arms". It does not specify type of armament, therefore constitutional basis for discluding specific types does not exist. Assault weapon bans are unconstitutional.

 

[devilof76]

The difference is the public thinks Bush is the worst president in history.

And perception is everything, right? Truth is a consensus?

I'm fairly certain that FDR was a far greater enemy of the Constitution than Bush.

 

[Anzik]

Obama is a cardboard cut out. He has accomplished nothing in his 47 years except write two books about himself and run a campaign about himself.
He aligned himself with his church because it was politically beneficial.
He was elected to the senate to VOTE YES or NO, but when there were issues that could be politically detrimental he voted 'present' (was it 168 times?).
He is a consummate politician. He uses what he has to in order to get ahead and dumps them when they can be a liability. He even threw grandmom under the bus.
Jimmy Carter's slogan "A Leader, for a Change".

So you can vote for someone who carefully positions himself in the safest light or you can vote for the guy who takes the road that he thinks is right whether it's popular or not.


Another thing thats funny is the criticism of Palin because she has children.
She has a husband.
Joe Biden lost his wife and one of his children in an accident. He initially was going to resign from the senate but decided to stay and raise his two sons by himself and yet drew praise and not criticism.

 

[barbelith]

The second amendment means what it says. The words are plain. The right to bear "arms". It does not specify type of armament, therefore constitutional basis for discluding specific types does not exist. Assault weapon bans are unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court disagrees, and for good reason. The right to bear arms does not imply the right to bear all arms. Which obviously everyone here agrees with in principal as nobody would argue I get to own a nuke.

And perception is everything, right?

Are you even paying attention or is this all about schoolyard posturing for you? Your response doesn't even make sense in context of the conversation. People bring up the McCain figure because voters aren't likely to think highly of voting in concert with the most unpopular president in history. In this sense bringing up the Obama figure only serves Obama - it's hardly a riposte.

 

[barbelith]

So you can vote for someone who carefully positions himself in the safest light or you can vote for the guy who takes the road that he thinks is right whether it's popular or not.

Who is this mystery candidate? Surely not John McCain, who capitulated on all his principles after realizing he'd need the GOP on his side if he wanted the nomination. He's so transparently politicking for votes and has been for the past few years.

 

[hoodonit00]

I used to have a 4th Amendment. Now I don't.
I used to have a 5th Amendment. Now I don't.
I used to have a 6th Amendment. Now I don't.

That's not playing with words. That's telling you three things I had eight years ago and which I don't have now. You might not agree rights are important but denying I've answered the question is transparent posturing. However I must confess it's interesting to see self-proclaimed conservatives be so cavalier about the piecemeal dismantling of the Bill of Rights. Quite a change from the Clinton years!



The 2nd Amendment means whatever the Supreme Court decides it means. But it doesn't actually say firearms and it certainly doesn't say assault weapons.



I'm not pretending to be a free market capitalist opposed to government interference in the market.



There's no reason to believe this. Without federal intervention there's nothing to prevent domestic drillers from selling their oil overseas at market prices, and what Republican is going to agree to the government telling a private business how and where to sell their wares?

I can't figure out how to separate the quotes like you cause I'm just a dumb Republican so mine is all down here. We won't debate the first part. You come up lacking. You know NOTHING of the 2nd. Ammendment. Do you know anything about Heller vs DC.? It was a landmark case concerning a citizens rights to own firarms. All you antis for decades have tried to say the 2nd just pertains to militias. Thanks to our conservative supreme court justices, it is finally ruled that it is an individual right to own GUNS. Heres a link for ya.
https://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
Their are better links, hell I can get you the whole court case if you want, but I highly doubt you will be interested. Same way with home invasions. I posted earlier about Castle Doctrine. Did you read it? More and more states are adopting this program and it's in the works for Pa. Castle Doctrine means I dont have a duty to retreat. My house is my castle and if you break into it, prepare yourself to be shot. Do you know that if a homeowner is defending himself from 2 home invaders and he shoots one the other will be faced with murder charges. Don't believe me look it up. If you all want to be victims great, I will defend my family till the death.

 

[hoodonit00]

Oh look, Barak Obama has voted with his democratic collegue 96% of the time. And that's just counting the times that he's voted
https://https://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/

Any of you who keep throwing up McCain voting record have a response to this?

 

[DarkArtist81]

Just to calm everyone down and shine a light on you all... i will share with you one of my favorite clips... Enjoy.

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[barbelith]

We won't debate the first part.

Thanks for conceding the point.

You know NOTHING of the 2nd. Ammendment.

I know how to spell it.

All you antis for decades have tried to say the 2nd just pertains to militias.

Where did I say I thought it only applied to militias? In fact nothing you say here contradicts anything I have said.

 

[hoodonit00]

The difference is the public thinks Bush is the worst president in history.

And yet Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic House have a lower approval rating then Bush.

 

[barbelith]

Any of you who keep throwing up McCain voting record have a response to this?

I do: O lucky day! The public hates Bush's policies and performance and voting against him that often will serve Obama well.

 

[barbelith]

And yet Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic House have a lower approval rating then Bush.

That's because they suck too.

 

[Anzik]

Provided Obama's teleprompter doesn't break.

 

[hoodonit00]

Who is this mystery candidate? Surely not John McCain, who capitulated on all his principles after realizing he'd need the GOP on his side if he wanted the nomination. He's so transparently politicking for votes and has been for the past few years.

John McCain has reached across the aisle tons more then Obama has. McCain loses some of his Republican base because he is not conservative enough. According to his own party Obama is the most left leaning Democrat that they have.

 

[hoodonit00]

The Supreme Court disagrees, and for good reason. The right to bear arms does not imply the right to bear all arms. Which obviously everyone here agrees with in principal as nobody would argue I get to own a nuke.

Again, you know squat about the 2nd. If I had an extra 15 grand laying around and 500 bucks for the tax stamp. I can buy a fully automatic rifle as long as I have a clean record.

 

[hoodonit00]

Thanks for conceding the point.



I know how to spell it.



Where did I say I thought it only applied to militias? In fact nothing you say here contradicts anything I have said.

Oooh, you got me on the spelling part. You've stated that the 2nd doesn't necessarily mean guns. I provided a link to disprove you. How does that not contradict you. You spin more then a kids top.

 

[devilof76]

The Supreme Court disagrees, and for good reason. The right to bear arms does not imply the right to bear all arms. Which obviously everyone here agrees with in principal as nobody would argue I get to own a nuke.

The right to bear arms is included in the Bill of Rights because individuals have a right to self-defense. There is absolutely no reason why anyone could possibly need a nuclear weapon unless they were intending to go to war. If it was their intent to go to war with another country, they would be overstepping the government's prerogative. If they were intending to go to war with this country, it would be treason. So ownership of nuclear weapons is disqualified on grounds that have priority over the Bill of Rights, namely the principle upon which the Bill of Rights is based.

Nukes are a red herring. No other type of weapon is constitutionally prohibitable.

Are you even paying attention or is this all about schoolyard posturing for you? Your response doesn't even make sense in context of the conversation. People bring up the McCain figure because voters aren't likely to think highly of voting in concert with the most unpopular president in history. In this sense bringing up the Obama figure only serves Obama - it's hardly a riposte.

It makes plenty of sense in the broader context (which apparently you are free to abandon in your posturing). The only reason why McCain could be criticized on the basis of his voting record is that the general perception is that Bush is a bad President. It is not predicated on the specific issues with which McCain agreed with him.

(Didn't you go to great lengths last night to make the point that simply because Obama and Wright were associates, Wright's poor ideas were not necessarily a reflection of Obama's character?)

Further, perception of Bush as a bad President does not constitute an accurate, objective judgement on the part of his critics. I despise the manner in which the man has performed for the past eight years, but I do't believe that the majority of those who share my contempt do so for the right reasons. Deferring to the opinions of those who compose the mainstream consensus is no judge of whether McCain would make a good President.