Media Metal Gear Solid Discussion Thread (NO FIGURES /CUSTOMS JUST GAMES) SPOILERS

[ronri]

 

[Jameson Rook]

Uhh, to sum up the last few pages:

MGSV is written entirely out of cartoon logic.

 

[ronri]

Uhh, to sum up the last few pages:

MGSV is written entirely out of cartoon logic.

Well, I'm glad that we were spared from Liquid's arm becoming the main antagonist for MGS4 then.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Liquids arm, while i'm glad it turned out not to be liquid, is no more stupid than any of the other powers/questionable abilities that any of the other games have had so I have a hard time believing that it's soo ridiculous put into context of the entire franchise. Seems more like you want to pun it off because you personally didn't like it.

There was a vampire man who couldn't die. A man that could control birds and talk to people when he had already died. Ocelot could bend bullets from a revolver. Each and every one of the MGS3 bosses are then absurd by nature apart then from The Boss maybe. I mean you could eat mushrooms that recharged batteries and the end used photosynthesis like a plant... come on now.

Mantis in MGSV is pretty out there, considering he seems to be a million times more powerful that he was in MGS1 and apparently now doesn't wear a mask to keep everyone else thoughts out, but to feed off their revenge?

It's a staple of the series so it's more than plausible In the context of the mgs world. Was It good writing? No definitely not.

But it seemed to me in MGS4 Kojima tried to wrap these up with the nanomachines explanation, much like he did in MGS2 with Fortune and the bullet dodging, only to then go fully in again for MGSV.

And to say you can find it plausible that Volgin can live on because of his lust for revenge on Big Boss, but Liquid can't because of the same reason is contradictory in itself.

 

[ronri]

And to say you can find it plausible that Volgin can live on because of his lust for revenge on Big Boss, but Liquid can't because of the same reason is contradictory in itself.

Of course I didn't like it, but that's why I'm giving my reasons why that is so.

Volgin's body was left intact, and experimented on, it wasn't just his "lust for revenge" that made him function the way he did (it just kept him living in a comatose state). On the other hand, Liquid's arm was literally transplanted onto Ocelot and this was actually taken as a serious plot point for the character unlike Volgin's where it was just put together because it was somehow cool.

It's a case of being able to write ridiculous things while keeping things at a certain tone. The Cobra Unit is the perfect example of this, where their ridiculous antics are treated very separately from the whole deal with The Boss's self-sacrifice. Liquid's arm is tonally jarring because it relies on this similarly ridiculous and contrived premise while actually making the viewer take it seriously. It's that tonal difference in the writing that seems to escape people here by blanketing the whole thing under "Kojima's done more crazier stuff" when there are cues in the mood, story, and voice that serves to illustrate the intended framing of a situation for each character.

Ocelot's crazy gun tricks aren't something that majorly affects the story either, he's literally that one cowboy guy who does cool gun tricks. In this case, MGSV is treated like a horror circus showcase. We have Skull Face (cowboy skeleton), Mantis (creepy psychic child), Volgin (Frankenstein's monster), the Parasite Unit (super parasite zombies), all of which are purposefully written with a horror-like undertone for the sake of cool and creepiness. While MGS2 certainly had its share of ridiculous moments, most were treated in such a way that the story didn't actually hinge on them (is Vamp running on water just as much of an important plot point as Liquid taking over Ocelot then?).

The thing is, those things were written in such a way that they either didn't factor as a serious plot element or there's an obvious intention in the tone that uses them to the fullest effect (like MGSV being paranormal/horror-themed). The problem was that Liquid's arm did none of those things. We were basically meant to take the whole thing seriously as if it's somehow natural for Liquid to manifest in Ocelot through a single transplanted arm.

Nothing in the writing, mood, or story, indicated the sheer ridiculousness of it. It wasn't even treated as if it's like some crazy horror-type idea, Liquid literally just came back through an arm because he was apparently popular and Kojima regretted killing him. That right there is cartoon logic.

 

[Solidus]

I come here for the lulz. But, instead, I read the essays. Thanks, gents!

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Yeah I agree with what your saying, which I why I said I was glad that it wasn't liquid in the end.

What I'm trying to say is it's no more ridiculous than anything else, albeit with a worse explanation as to how it came to be, but there was an explanation that does fit with the lore whether it's lame or not

 

[ronri]

I come here for the lulz. But, instead, I read the essays. Thanks, gents!

Yeah I agree with what your saying, which I why I said I was glad that it wasn't liquid in the end.

What I'm trying to say is it's no more ridiculous than anything else, albeit with a worse explanation as to how it came to be, but there was an explanation that does fit with the lore whether it's lame or not

I actually agree with you there.

It's definitely as ridiculous as many other things in the series. Rather, the ridiculousness of Liquid's arm wouldn't have been as bad if it wasn't taken as seriously as it was in the story.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

My only reservation on how it was handled was what i pointed at in my post yesterday, that is it more alluded to that Ocelot brainwashed himself into thinking he was Liquid with the personality hypnotherapy than that he was actually just playing them all. Which to me, the latter is a much more sound explanation but isn't 100% confirmed to be how it went down.

I actually agree with you there.

It's definitely as ridiculous as many other things in the series. Rather, the ridiculousness of Liquid's arm wouldn't have been as bad if it wasn't taken as seriously as it was in the story.

 

[ronri]

My only reservation on how it was handled was what i pointed at in my post yesterday, that is it more alluded to that Ocelot brainwashed himself into thinking he was Liquid with the personality hypnotherapy than that he was actually just playing them all. Which to me, the latter is a much more sound explanation but isn't 100% confirmed to be how it went down.

Definitely, I'd prefer to think that Ocelot was somehow aware instead of him thinking he was really Liquid all the way through. His dorkiness still showed through though, so aspects of Ocelot still came across even with the "Liquid Ocelot" persona. Viewing MGS4 with that in mind, Liquid Ocelot's goofy yet "smooth" mannerisms actually make more sense in hindsight.

 

[RIDDICK]

I come here for the lulz. But, instead, I read the essays.

Have some bubble gum.

 

[FSLAR]

we all know this to be true! if only they mentioned the fanbase...because those comments, haha. surprised the dislike bar isn't higher, considering the sheer amount of whiners from their Kingdom Hearts video for similar reason.

 

[Baneofdemon22]

I saw that video a few weeks ago, and I think I favorited it. I'm very guilty of taking all this stupid stuff way, way too seriously!

 

[Snake Plissken]

"Your dead brother inside another man's arm."

 

[FSLAR]

"the anime equivalent of Michael Bay" :

I saw that video a few weeks ago, and I think I favorited it. I'm very guilty of taking all this stupid stuff way, way too seriously!

You are the most guilty

"Your dead brother inside another man's arm."

That doesn't sound nearly as wrong as it should

 

[RIDDICK]

"Your dead brother inside your hated biological father's best man's arm."

Fixed.

 

[FSLAR]

Fixed.

It's more convoluted than that.

 

[Snake Plissken]

"Your dead brother inside your hated biological father's best man's arm who became a lobotomized encyclopedia."

Fixed.

 

[FSLAR]

"Your dead brother inside your hated biological father's best man's arm who became a lobotomized encyclopedia."

Fixed.

"Your 'inferior' dead brother inside your hated biological father's enemy turned best man's arm who became a lobotomized encyclopedia.

 

[RIDDICK]

Such a lust for convolution...