Media Metal Gear Solid Discussion Thread (NO FIGURES /CUSTOMS JUST GAMES) SPOILERS

[pturtle]

At the time of MGS2 i though tit was a cop-out too, but then with the revelation that he is the boss and the sorrows son it makes it plausible in the mgs world.

I find it harder to believe ocelot tricked himself into believe he was liquid, as he has to be aware of what he's doing because he's the one that doing it.

I personally think its more in tune with his character, it would just be wrong if the guy thats pretty much been pulling all the strings in the series just allows himself to be controlled.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Liquid shouldn't have been killed off in one game.

 

[pturtle]

If Kojima knew he was making a sequel then he wouldn’t have been, I personally think he should have died in the first game since that game is pretty much perfect. I wouldn’t change a thing.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Well i never really saw it as him allowing liquid to control him, he had the connection with the dead from the sorrow so it was more of a uncontrollable trait passed down from the powers of his dad, over something he had direct control over.

I could have warmed more to Ocelot 'pretending' to be liquid in MGS4 over actually having had brainwashed himself into thinking he actually is being controlled, because as noted in my last post he would be aware of what he is doing and what he's done to himself as he is the one performing the hypnotherapy or whatever it was. It seems more in tune with Ocelot to bare face lie about about being liquid than actually 'being' liquid through the arm

I personally think its more in tune with his character, it would just be wrong if the guy thats pretty much been pulling all the strings in the series just allows himself to be controlled.

 

[pturtle]

Well i never really saw it as him allowing liquid to control him, he had the connection with the dead from the sorrow so it was more of a uncontrollable trait passed down from the powers of his dad, over something he had direct control over.

I could have warmed more to Ocelot 'pretending' to be liquid in MGS4 over actually having had brainwashed himself into thinking he actually is being controlled, because as noted in my last post he would be aware of what he is doing and what he's done to himself as he is the one performing the hypnotherapy or whatever it was. It seems more in tune with Ocelot to bare face lie about about being liquid than actually 'being' liquid through the arm

I was always unsure if he was playing the part or actually believed he was Liquid. Big Boss makes a few references kind of hinting Ocelot was method acting out the part the whole time.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

True, if he'd have outright said he did though then it would have no wiggle room. You'd think is his dying moments he would have said something, if Big Boss can hint at it but not outright say it seems more like a 'you can think of it that way' over actually that being the actual way it went down.

It just comes down to poor choice of how to relay the info to the player. A few minor changes here and there makes it much better flowing even with the madness they changed.

I was always unsure if he was playing the part or actually believed he was Liquid. Big Boss makes a few references kind of hinting Ocelot was method acting out the part the whole time.

 

[Solidus]

With us ordinary folk, you can see your mother and father in you ( usually ) but with Snake i see nothing. And being a clone even if not perfect should still bring more of a likeness than regular birthing.

Maybe Solid Snake is a clone of Venom. The surprise twist for MGS6

Um, what...? Snake and Liquid are identical twins. They looked like each other in MGS 1, Meryl even commented on it. Snake was given all of Big Boss' recessive genes so that Liquid could possess all of his dominant soldier genes.

Big Mamma's debriefing also elaborated on the Les Enfants Terribles project a bit more. The reason why Old Snake doesn't look like Big Boss, is because Big Boss' cells were transplanted into a Japanese woman's egg (Dr. Clark's assistant). In other words, Snake and Liquid are not perfect clones of Big Boss. Just as with a biological father, they only shared half of Big Boss' genes.

Solidus, on the other hand, was the spitting image of Big Boss. Unlike Snake and Liquid, he was a perfect clone. He didn't undergo the same cloning procedure as they did.

Besides, Les Enfants Terribles happened a few years prior to Peace Walker. This was before the Medic even came into the scene...

 

[ronri]

If Kojima knew he was making a sequel then he wouldn’t have been, I personally think he should have died in the first game since that game is pretty much perfect. I wouldn’t change a thing.

QFT. Liquid was already perfect, and every time I replay MGS1, I'm constantly reminded why I wouldn't have had it any other way.

The whole arm thing was cool for two seconds of Liquid nostalgia, but it was really dumb and contrived especially when you end up convincing yourself through the whole Sorrow's-son-therefore-medium explanation. People may complain about the Liquid Ocelot switcheroo, but it was actually one of the few things in MGS4 I genuinely liked in retrospect because of how it served to connect Ocelot's MGS3 persona to the "present" timeline ("Adam", the dorky yet "cool" personality, Big Boss worship etc.)

Not only did it finally give Ocelot the full-fledged mastermind role he was perfectly fit for, but it also prevented Kojima from adding a needlessly contrived plot for Liquid after his perfect writing in MGS1. Personally, looking at it as Big Boss's son vs The Boss's son is better than Solid and Liquid still going at it to the point of old age.

 

[Kiva]

Um, what...? Snake and Liquid are identical twins. They looked like each other in MGS 1, Meryl even commented on it. Snake was given all of Big Boss' recessive genes so that Liquid could possess all of his dominant soldier genes.

Big Mamma's debriefing also elaborated on the Les Enfants Terribles project a bit more. The reason why Old Snake doesn't look like Big Boss, is because Big Boss' cells were transplanted into a Japanese woman's egg (Dr. Clark's assistant). In other words, Snake and Liquid are not perfect clones of Big Boss. Just as with a biological father, they only shared half of Big Boss' genes.

Solidus, on the other hand, was the spitting image of Big Boss. Unlike Snake and Liquid, he was a perfect clone. He didn't undergo the same cloning procedure as they did.

Besides, Les Enfants Terribles happened a few years prior to Peace Walker. This was before the Medic even came into the scene...

I forgot all of that when i was making my comment. But im still perplexed about the visual of Solid and Big Boss looking completely different when stood side by side in MGS4 when after MGS2/MGS3 they looked alotttttt alike.

 

[Solidus]

I forgot all of that when i was making my comment. But im still perplexed about the visual of Solid and Big Boss looking completely different when stood side by side in MGS4 when after MGS2/MGS3 they looked alotttttt alike.

I think that's just Kojima screwing up each game. Peace Walker Big Boss also resembled Old Snake from MGS 4. But, yeah, I don't think Snake and Big Boss were ever supposed to look alike. Snake and Liquid are identical twins, so they'll share the same resemblance.

I liked Richard Doyle's Big Boss a lot more in MGS 4. He actually looked like Big Boss from Shinkawa's artwork .

 

[Dylan]

I do think they look a like ots just the difference in hair style and the beard.

 

[RIDDICK]

None of the games in the series needed to exist after MG2...

I always hated the dumb arm thing. I was happy that got retconned.

Same.
I really don't like all the mystical stuff this franchise has.

 

[Solidus]

You liked the nanomachines, then?

 

[pturtle]

I like the supernatural stuff, I'm glad they kept that with Mantis and Volgin in TPP but the whole Liquid arm thing just screamed like lazy writing to me.

 

[RIDDICK]

You liked the nanomachines, then?

For sure!
I've got diploma in chemistry and nanoparticles from University of Instrument Engineering and Computer Science.
For me it's much more plausible than all that shamanic and spiritualistic crap.

 

[GasparZizou]

^ This.

 

[Solidus]

I like the supernatural stuff, I'm glad they kept that with Mantis and Volgin in TPP but the whole Liquid arm thing just screamed like lazy writing to me.

I honestly didn't have a problem with it, since the games did bring supernatural elements into the storyline - like Mantis in MGS 1 and The Sorrow in MGS 3. So, it seemed plausible that Ocelot could've been taken-over by Liquid's spirit, since Cam Clarke was even doing Liquid's voice in the sequences where Ocelot became possessed in MGS 2. I'm sure Kojima had even entertained this idea, when he revealed that The Sorrow was Ocelot's father. Of course, all of this was before he needed a cop-out in MGS 4...

 

[RIDDICK]

I like the supernatural stuff, I'm glad they kept that with Mantis and Volgin in TPP.

Mantis was telekinetic and telepathic.
Volgin was electrokinetic.

This is parapsychology, not supernatural. Unlike Vulcan Raven's death...

 

[Solidus]

What about The Sorrow's ghost in MGS 3? I mean... it's strange that Kojima suddenly did an about turn in how he wanted to present this series. Even Raven in MGS 1 had some supernatural abilities, like his control over crows, or how he spoke to Snake shortly after his death.

 

[GasparZizou]

Mantis was telekinetic and telepathic.
Volgin was electrokinetic.

This is parapsychology, not supernatural. Unlike Vulcan Raven's death...

Right on yet again.

MGS certainly has spiritual stuff, but I wouldn't quite call all those above spiritual.

Like you say, ESP has scientific or pseudo-scientific bases and evidence that support their existence.