Media Metal Gear Solid Discussion Thread (NO FIGURES /CUSTOMS JUST GAMES) SPOILERS

[Snake Plissken]

Presumably, whenever the characters in MGS1 and 2 were referencing BB, it would probably refer to:

-Ocelot talking about the real BB since he knew both.

-Liquid unknowingly was referring to Venom since he (never?) met the real BB. But then again, which BB was the one who called him "inferior"?

-Since Solid was trained by Miller, that naturally means that the BB that trained him was 100% Venom, NOT BB.

-Wolf might have met either Bosses.

-Mantis knew of the decoy since he could read minds.. but why didn't he told Liquid? Even in MGS1?

Also, how did BB formed FOXHOUND when his decoy was clearly operating Diamond Dogs? Wouldn't someone eventually put tow and two together?

This series is s cluster***!

****. Now that you really read into it with Venom, it really deconstructs the series in the worst possible way. Why couldn't it just be a Big Boss game, and only a Big Boss game? Just have him do some ****** things for his "greater good" and have him become a vengeful prick toward the Patriots and governments in general?

It didn't need this overly convoluted, needless decoy nonsense. The canon plot showed he did return to the US to command FOX HOUND... so he more or less was on speaking terms with the US... so Venom is worthless.

 

[Jameson Rook]

****. Now that you really read into it with Venom, it really deconstructs the series in the worst possible way. Why couldn't it just be a Big Boss game, and only a Big Boss game? Just have him do some ****** things for his "greater good" and have him become a vengeful prick toward the Patriots and governments in general?

It didn't need this overly convoluted, needless decoy nonsense. The canon plot showed he did return to the US to command FOX HOUND... so he more or less was on speaking terms with the US... so Venom is worthless.

Also, why was (the real) Miller working for FOXHOUND, when he clearly said he had a beef with BB? Didn't he swore to Ocelot at the end of TPP that he'll "make the sons stronger", and his grand plan was to train Solid Snake right in front of the watching eyes of FOXHOUND?

I guess only YongYeah could explain it away, by harassing the actors. He likes that.

 

[Solidus]

UGH, that's some good thinking, Ryan . Funny how Venom has completely undermined Big Boss' legacy in the games.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Also, why was (the real) Miller working for FOXHOUND, when he clearly said he had a beef with BB? Didn't he swore to Ocelot at the end of TPP that he'll "make the sons stronger", and his grand plan was to train Solid Snake right in front of the watching eyes of FOXHOUND?

I guess only YongYeah could explain it away, by harassing the actors. He likes that.

Oh no, not him. Miller never lost control.

I swear, you've completely ruined the canon for us even further, Ryan

 

[FSLAR]

I honestly was suspicious when I realized people said Venom Snake fixed 'a few holes' in the lore like how Big Boss was fought again in MG 2...I just thought "haha, everyone's trying to justify MGS V that badly, great job fanboys." but now...oh dear lord



what the hell is this?!?! Is this what Kojima wanted?! Did he want to **** up the series as a whole so badly and leave it like that after he was forced out, so Konami would have to answer? And use the PR to cover his tracks? Holy crap, I never thought of how much Venom screwed up so much! I don't think we even considered MGS 2, and 4....who knows if somehow MGS 3 got affected? Hell, what about the rest of MGS1?

In hindsight, Kojima was right in that MGS V would actually matter......but this...oh man this. I think he had the real last laugh, and no one's going to know because everyone's still going "#StandwithKojima #****onami" and all that nonsense. This is his legacy, and Konami's going to get the brunt of it all.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I understand staying loyal to Kojima, but way too many of the dudebros don't even think for themselves and acknowledge any of the glaring problems with V or the series in general. I can pick apart every single one of the games, and still love them, most anyway.

It's really become the Walmart of gaming with heavy narratives, since it's had to be dumbed down and dumbly written for years now. It's just a hype train, that doesn't deliver anymore in the hands of Kojima. Big Boss's story is done, it can't get any worse for him. Snake's story is unfortunately finished bar remakes. At least Raiden can go forward, and just become a Indy character that just gets involved with PMC/Cyborg conflicts.

 

[FSLAR]

To be blunt, I really can't see staying loyal to Kojima and ignoring a lot of stuff he did. Unless dudebros are THAT oblivious to everything from the past few years. I don't even see him as that good or relatable a person, compared to other creators - Hideki Kamiya is practically more sympathetic and he blocks people for not realizing what games he didn't work on!

That Walmart comparison is spot on, nothing more can be said. But I worry about all the good that's been done for Raiden being undone...heaven forbid they return him to his MGS 2 status because some dudebros love that version of Raiden :

 

[Snake Plissken]

I think what it comes down to, is that the series has become too appreciated by people that don't even understand it for what it is. Whether it be good, or bad elements within it.

 

[Jameson Rook]

I think what it comes down to, is that the series has become too appreciated by people that don't even understand it for what it is. Whether it be good, or bad elements within it.

Amen to that. I can't tell you how many hardcore Kojima worshipers I've met that despises MGS2, which so happens to be ironically, his most intellectual work. Go figure.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Amen to that. I can't tell you how many hardcore Kojima worshipers I've met that despises MGS2, which so happens to be ironically, his most intellectual work. Go figure.

I'll be the first to say it's got problems with it, but the cinematics, the themes, what it did for Snake's character, and true predictions of the internet age truly make it the smartest game ever made. Even when I first played it, I loved it, but sure I hated Raiden at first. But as the series went on, you came to like Raiden and it wasn't the same level bait and switch that V was. Raiden was an avatar, turned character that became his own person. Venom is no one, and everyone.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Venom and Raiden aren't even comparable. One of them had actual character and personality. If Raiden was not a MGS character, he would have been a real hit, like a Final Fantasy character or something. If Venom was a character in another series, he would have been quickly forgotten where modern game heroes are expected to be chatty like Joel or Nathan Drake. It goes with the MGS fan stigma I guess. Venom Snake feels like a backward step in character relatability for modern videogames.

 

[bangkok_wolf]

Haven't been back to the forum for ages, and after reading couple of pages...


"... sad, so sad"

Ryan, why u do this ...

 

[Snake Plissken]

 

[FSLAR]

I'll be the first to say it's got problems with it, but the cinematics, the themes, what it did for Snake's character, and true predictions of the internet age truly make it the smartest game ever made. Even when I first played it, I loved it, but sure I hated Raiden at first. But as the series went on, you came to like Raiden and it wasn't the same level bait and switch that V was. Raiden was an avatar, turned character that became his own person. Venom is no one, and everyone.

The bait and switch with Venom Fake was poorly done, and so obvious. I knew from the first cinematic what they were doing

MGS 2 is a real work of art, for what it tried. It succeeded almost everywhere, it's not perfect and there are totally things you can dislike that aren't really nit picks but just stuff that probably isn't good to some people. Raiden really became his own character, but I love how he got haters for becoming 'a Gray Fox' clone, really?

Venom's concept was apparently that anyone could become Big Boss or something....but why would you want to be Big Boss when you can be Solid Snake?

 

[Snake Plissken]

The bait and switch with Venom Fake was poorly done, and so obvious. I knew from the first cinematic what they were doing

MGS 2 is a real work of art, for what it tried. It succeeded almost everywhere, it's not perfect and there are totally things you can dislike that aren't really nit picks but just stuff that probably isn't good to some people. Raiden really became his own character, but I love how he got haters for becoming 'a Gray Fox' clone, really?

Venom's concept was apparently that anyone could become Big Boss or something....but why would you want to be Big Boss when you can be Solid Snake?

 

[FSLAR]

I mean...

those chiseled features...

 

[Snake Plissken]

Well, that looks like a redone model since he has blue eyes.

 

[FSLAR]

didn't notice.

let's try that again!

those chiseled features compared to that schoolgirl Raiden anyway

 

[Dylan]

Started to play MGS4 again and decided to watch all the cut scene just like it was the first time I played it except scrutinize the details a little more than I usually do in order to try and understand some of the complaints about that game. I didn't even make it past the intro videos. We're supposed to believe that just one of these PMC groups has more members than the population of Mexico and Canada combined! I don't even have to look up the specifics to know that's insanity.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Haven't been back to the forum for ages, and after reading couple of pages...

View attachment 255519
"... sad, so sad"

Ryan, why u do this ...

Sorry!

I mean...

those chiseled features...

That's a modded base render rip that's been quite popular due to the resolution, hence the expressionless face. If you needed some real MGS2 Snake pics, all you needed to do was ask..