Media Metal Gear Solid Discussion Thread (NO FIGURES /CUSTOMS JUST GAMES) SPOILERS

[Jameson Rook]

I never thought they were entirely. He has all the creative clout behind the game, he should definitely take as much blame as Konami. I can't stand the white knighting these ****** bags do for him.

You're not a real fan of the series if you ignore all his blatant flaws and become another "A Hideo Kojima Game" sheep.

To be fair, it could be speculated that Konami just had enough of Kojima's nonsense. I mean face it, this isn't gonna sell as well as a GTA or a Batman, and quite frankly Kojima Productions is actually a pretty lavish place. I think when Kojima proposed "open world", Konami must have thought GTA revenues.

I'm sure Konami will finance whatever Kojima needs to make a MGS game, but looking at the Kojima Station TV show around the world research trips, and obscene amount of dedication required to get the boob physics right, I wonder if Konami was beginning to question this man's "art".

As much as I am disappointed with the unfinished product, I think the blame as you said, should equally go to Kojima. If you can't make an all around satisfying game at 80 mil, you know you have a problem. There are PLENTY of filmmakers who had to work under severe budget cuts, and against all odds end up with a cohesive product.

 

[ronri]

Has anyone found this yet? Seems to be the closest thing we'll get in terms of an explanation of what happened to Kojima and Konami regarding MGSV. Basically an interview talking about Rika Muranaka's knowledge of what happened to the two:

Daley: "The main reason for the falling out, at least in [Rika Muranaka's] opinion, is that Kojima gets paid a salary, and doesn't make any profit share on the game. He gets paid a certain amount no matter what, and he was spending so much money and delaying the project, and adding all these features and making sure the game was the biggest and best thing it could be, and Konami was unhappy with that because [delaying] has no effect on him. He was spending the budget on this and that and upgrading the Fox Engine and then delaying further because the engine wasn't ready, and Konami wasn't happy with that because he gets his salary and he takes a more traditional "Japanese man" approach by not taking a profit share. So in doing that, he gets a little more than a game creator would but doesn't take bonuses from the game selling well."

Yong: "So you're telling me that Kojima wanting to make the game the best it can be is what started the conflict?"

Daley: Yes. In her eyes, Kojima's a fantastic creator, and probably the best creator of his time, but he doesn't have a strong business sense like Konami would like him to have. Where instead of, for example, cutting corners by lowering foliage resolution, he wants to make sure everything looks as good and polished as possible. She said they paid for her to write 30-40 songs that ended up not being used, and he'd tell her to write another one, then another one, then another one, because he settles for what he likes and has a good mind for what people want to see and what people want to hear.

Daley: "She's worked directly with Kojima for the music before so she does have some insight, and personally believes that the music has suffered in MGSV because she's not a part of it, because they couldn't afford her. So instead of paying her to go to all these people and recruit them for the music, they chose to remove her from the equation and go to the people directly."

So.... yeah, make what you will out of that?

Also Skull Face seemed to have been a planned boss fight. His background indicated that he was meant to be as good as Big Boss and The Boss in terms of combat/espionage, not to mention he has stock sound files in the game indicating that he had reactive voice files (as in like, painful grunts, small phrases and a lot of taunting towards the player). Apparently Kojima cut it out due to a story-based decision:

According to Hideo Kojima's notes in the Piggyback Collector's Edition Guide's art gallery, Skull Face's role is that, while he is indeed the story's villain and antagonist, his character is not simply about Good and Evil: He has lost something, which results in him suffering from the phantom pain. He also states that his absence will leave the player with a sense of lasting phantom pain. He also explains in the same source that the reason he doesn't have a standard boss battle is to further promote the theme of a chain of revenge, a phantom pain, the continuous chain that one experiences when a target of vengeance is gone, something that would not have been possible via a standard boss fight, unlike most stories where good vs. evil encounters are given in Hollywood movies to satisfy the audience.

 

[pturtle]

Yea that article was posted in the other thread a while back, I'm wondering just how much was cut, all of this really explains the pacing, missing cutscenes, episode 51, dumbed down mother base etc....

For that reason, I'm kind of happy there was no boss fight with Skull Face, but that probably would have been better than the way we take him out. A really nice torture sequence from him would have been amazing, that a really big missed opportunity in my opinion.

 

[ronri]

Yea that article was posted in the other thread a while back, I'm wondering just how much was cut, all of this really explains the pacing, missing cutscenes, episode 51, dumbed down mother base etc....

For that reason, I'm kind of happy there was no boss fight with Skull Face, but that probably would have been better than the way we take him out. A really nice torture sequence from him would have been amazing, that a really big missed opportunity in my opinion.

I can see your point actually. I think that the only thing that's a bit of a shame is that the other bosses could have been a little more varied, which would have made the lack of a boss fight with Skull Face more acceptable.

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

The biggest thing that got me was the complete lack of Chico and the other son info.

 

[pturtle]

I think one of the tapes tell us Chico died on the helicopter.

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

Shame that cutscene got cut as it was pretty poignant.
Also it was a nice reference to Boss with the lilies.

 

[GasparZizou]

inb4 tl;dr lmao

So 58 hours later I just finished it.

Yeah I loved it, ending and all. I won't fight anyone about it but yeah I have to say it.

I imagined it would be MUCH MUCH worse to be honest, when Ryan said something about the story "amounting to zero" I immediately thought: "**** no, it's all a dream, at the end I'm gonna ****ing wake up or something" thank god that wasn't the case.

The real ending, yeah I saw it coming from the beginning of the game, honest, from the moment they made me make my avatar to NOT use it, and then Ishmael saying "you're talking to yourself" I said: "yeah, that's Big Boss", but when they dropped the twist I couldn't help but to smile because the game makes you believe you're the real deal.

Loved the story, I will admit it took a while to drop bombs but I had no problem with the pacing, probably cause I was cranking tapes all day long so the story was always moving for me, and it's a huge story, as big as any other MGS', at the end there are like 3 hours of melodramatic cutscenes very ala MGS so yeah, it wasn't lacking in that department either, the gameplay is immaculate, visuals are fantastic too...

I think the graphics get frowned upon cause they actually look photo realistic at times, sure, some weird textures and dead plants but the world is huge and it looks real, anybody noticed in the prologue when you're crawling, you can actually see different sets of back muscles of Fake Boss contracting with each movement? **** the Unreal Engine

Themes are HUGE, my brain is barely tasting them at the moment, I'm gonna be thinking about them for a while.

I miss Quiet.

At least I have DD. Dogs before hoes.

The game did not feel incomplete at all to me, but it DID feel like (especially after watching the Kingdom of the flies) was like a piece of a much bigger thing, like Kojima had a sequel in mind.

So yeah, this felt like the MGS1 to MGS2. I really want more. I feel like playing it all over again right now.

It feels to me budget wasn't the issue here, just time. Konami abandoning ship, I guess it put a halt to Kojima's plans and he had to finish up with dignity and tie up this game with the rest of the franchise, and I think the nailed it, that end speech of BB telling Fake Boss (the player) how he was part of everything gave me feels, like many other scenes in the game, nothing short of its franchise name.

Because really, all that work into the FOX Engine for just one MGS and crappy PES games? Nah, Kojima had big plans for this.

Sorry for the long post, too much to dump and I left a lot out.

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

Quick question if anybody knows but can you do a mission objective and then abort and the objective remains completed?
Couldn't be bothered to blow up anti air etc or rescue all prisoners on first rum but i'd like to now without doing whole mission again.
Miss my s-rank buddy too, so good against the skulls.

 

[GasparZizou]

You can always blow up anti-air radars for your chopper to land and it will save it. You can do it while wandering around.

I'm not sure about it while being on a mission but I don't see why it should be different.

As for the other type of objectives, like prisoners and stuff, I don't know, sorry.

Apparently there's a way to bring Quiet back. Will try it out.

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

I have done most ones that allow the copter to land but not the little ones.
Sorry for all the questions but you know when you clear a guard post. Do they re-spawn later or is it like far cry?

 

[Solidus]

I miss Quiet, too. I read if you equip the butterfly emblem, you can prevent the mission where she leaves from triggering. Not sure if there's a way to get her back, though. If there is, I'd love to hear it T___T

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

I used the butterfly, put it on before 41. All it does is prevent the mission from popping up but I wanted to complete all the missions.

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

I would go as far as saying i'd even pay to get her back if bundled with other dlc and missions etc.
I mean surely the clue is in the Eva and Boss female outfits surely please.

 

[GasparZizou]

Oh yeah, I just read up, you have to do that ^ but you need to do it from like mission 41, and you can't bring her back.

Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

So what did "You'll be ashamed of your deeds" mean? It was meant for Quiet herself right? She changed from revenge to gratitude and love, ultimately feeling ashamed of her assassination attempt and her feelings of revenge?

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

The whole Quiet story just left me confused.
I mean I understand why her final scene but her whole point was like "Errrrrrr..........ok"

 

[GasparZizou]

What do you mean by her whole point?

She was supposed to kill BB
Then BB rekt her
Skullface gave her parasite therapy and the English strain. becomes Quiet. all to get back at BB.
"BB" beats her but doesn't kill her, which makes her hesitate.
And from then on she develops the feels towards "BB".

She's basically a failed assassin.

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

The whole parasite thing. So she welcomed being infected to get revenge?

 

[GasparZizou]

The whole parasite thing. So she welcomed being infected to get revenge?

Well, for starters she had no choice, she would've died otherwise, her body was burnt, her organs failing, so yeah, parasites acted as her skin and some organs, the parasites also gave her her abilities, she breaths through her skin because of that, that's why she had to wear light clothes

The revenge was a natural reaction to becoming a freak, methinks.

 

[pturtle]

inb4 tl;dr lmao

So 58 hours later I just finished it.

Yeah I loved it, ending and all. I won't fight anyone about it but yeah I have to say it.

I imagined it would be MUCH MUCH worse to be honest, when Ryan said something about the story "amounting to zero" I immediately thought: "**** no, it's all a dream, at the end I'm gonna ****ing wake up or something" thank god that wasn't the case.

The real ending, yeah I saw it coming from the beginning of the game, honest, from the moment they made me make my avatar to NOT use it, and then Ishmael saying "you're talking to yourself" I said: "yeah, that's Big Boss", but when they dropped the twist I couldn't help but to smile because the game makes you believe you're the real deal.

Loved the story, I will admit it took a while to drop bombs but I had no problem with the pacing, probably cause I was cranking tapes all day long so the story was always moving for me, and it's a huge story, as big as any other MGS', at the end there are like 3 hours of melodramatic cutscenes very ala MGS so yeah, it wasn't lacking in that department either, the gameplay is immaculate, visuals are fantastic too...

I think the graphics get frowned upon cause they actually look photo realistic at times, sure, some weird textures and dead plants but the world is huge and it looks real, anybody noticed in the prologue when you're crawling, you can actually see different sets of back muscles of Fake Boss contracting with each movement? **** the Unreal Engine

Themes are HUGE, my brain is barely tasting them at the moment, I'm gonna be thinking about them for a while.

I miss Quiet.

At least I have DD. Dogs before hoes.

The game did not feel incomplete at all to me, but it DID feel like (especially after watching the Kingdom of the flies) was like a piece of a much bigger thing, like Kojima had a sequel in mind.

So yeah, this felt like the MGS1 to MGS2. I really want more. I feel like playing it all over again right now.

It feels to me budget wasn't the issue here, just time. Konami abandoning ship, I guess it put a halt to Kojima's plans and he had to finish up with dignity and tie up this game with the rest of the franchise, and I think the nailed it, that end speech of BB telling Fake Boss (the player) how he was part of everything gave me feels, like many other scenes in the game, nothing short of its franchise name.

Because really, all that work into the FOX Engine for just one MGS and crappy PES games? Nah, Kojima had big plans for this.

Sorry for the long post, too much to dump and I left a lot out.

This is almost exactly how I feel about the game.The story was probably my second favorite in the series, and I absolutely agree that it felt like Kojima had plans for another game. My main complaints regarding the story are the lack of cutscenes, and we only see Skull Face like 3 times in the game, 4 if you count Ground Zeroes, by the time you his story ends it doesn’t feel as satisfying because we never really saw him do much other than the horrible stuff he was sanctioning in The Devil’s House.


Gameplay wise, I would have liked more and better boss fights, I think its cool how the game treats the bosses sort of like the entire concept of the gameplay, theres multiple ways to take them on, or not take them on, but I still prefer the epic cinematic, unique boss fights the series is known for. Also with a game this big, I expected to find a lot more easter eggs since the other games in the series are riddled with them. Also the game could have benefitted from having more compounds and buildings that we could sneak in. The Code Talker mission was one of my favorites because of how tense things got sneaking through hallways and corridors. I did think Mother Base was dead until I started messing with FOB, that mode really does make you feel like the leader of an entire army.

When I was playing through the game I was really upset that a lot of characters I expected to show up didn’t, and I wasn’t getting the game I expected, but I should have known, Kojima always plays with our expectations. Once I started to judge the game for what it was, I found it to be one of the best entries in the series. I think a better balance on gameplay and story would have made this the perfect game. The ending really did tie everything up for me, because I hated how unusually silent Big Boss was throughout the game, to me, it felt off, and when the ending drops, and I find out the truth, it all made sense. The ending is probably my favorite in the series. I won’t lie though, I’m salivating to play a full game as that the real Big Boss we get a glimpse of at the end, Kiefer did a great job in making the real Big Boss come off different from Venom.

I’ve already put in about 100 hours into the game, and I’m surprisingly still finding new cutscenes and new little details throughout the game that I missed on my first play through. Plus, MGO3 isn’t even out yet.

I really do hope we get a Metal Gear Solid 6, or the Metal Gear Remakes, this game doesn’t feel like an ending the series unfortunately.