New Wonder Woman TV Series...

[Jair]

Wonder Woman has been on my pull list for years. I think poor sales for the comic are mainly due to uneven writing. Most (but not all) of the teams who work on WW have an easy time finding hero stuff for her to do, can't figure out how to write Diana as a person away from the action. Historically Clark Kent is a very well defined character, Bruce Wayne is well defined, but Diana gets re-worked occasionally.

I think this has a lot to do with DC always having guys write the title. Most guys have difficulty writing female characters. When WW fights this isn't such a problem. So she fights a lot.

A few years ago DC published an ongoing Catwoman series. For quite a while it was very good, but then they jumped the shark. They knocked her up and then didn't know what to do next. Turns out they didn't like writing her as a mommy. They also revealed that she wasn't truly reformed, just that Zantanna had mind-wiped her. It all circled the drain from there on. Spider-man's "One Day Later" looked like f'king Shakespeare next to the final six months of Catwoman. This kind of confused writing crops up in WW as well.

Most recently JMS re-invented WW and immediately left the series. He put ghost-writers on the title so he can focus on Superman graphic novels. DC should boot his ass and put Amanda Conner on the book. (anyone who read her stint on Power Girl knows she can balance character, humor and action)



This WW series will be the new "Lois and Clark:The Adventures of Superman". That show went a few years, but Superman fans hate it. I expect the same here.

WW's a complicated character, she was created by a guy who lived with 2 women, was a huge propenent of bondage and over the years his estate had a lot of control of WW in terms of what was used as content. That hurdle has been removed recently but still she's never been a big seller.

Back in the 1980's Perez's run sold well but other than the reboot with Heinburg starting up at #1 she really just doesn't sell. They put two well known female writers on her, Jodi Picoult (whose a big name writer) and Gail Simone, who probably is the best female comic writer out there and it still didn't sell. Now comic sales are down across the board but for a long time DC really didn't know what to do with WW. The catwomen series you mentioned that Brubaker started up I believe actually sold better then WW as it was part of the Bat Family of books.


They bought JMS on to start from scratch on Superman and WW and it really didn't work, plus JMS is a slow writer and they preferred to have him concentrate on his Earth 1 graphic novels (which sold really well). Phil Hester whose on WW now is a good writer and is writing from JMS's script so it is what it is. Conner was just the artist on Powergirl, her husband Jimmy Palmotti was the writer, though I'm sure she had some suggestions. She has also mentioned in the past she doesn't like working on any single series for more than a year, hence the reason Powergirl switched to a new artist and writer after 12 issues.


I really don't think Kelly or NBC is worried about if WW comic fans like the show, they aren't going for that demographic. I don't think the show is similar in any way to Smallville but I think much like Smallville, they don't care if the core comic fans like it at all, they want to pull in non-comic fans.

Half the fan's want to see Lynda Carter back in the suit in the same old cheesy TV show from the 70's. I'm old enough to have watched it every week and enjoyed it quite a bit but maybe it's time for something new.



Evan

 

[The Mike]

Trying to work my head around the last statement here, what Wonder Woman fans? They don't buy the comic, it's never been a huge seller, so what fans are we speaking about? I'm pretty sure the Kelly produced show isn't looking for the comic fans.

I never said comic fans. I said Wonder Woman fans. She is a staple of pop culture just as much as Superman or Batman in relativity. There are quite a few Wonder Woman fans who love the character but never once pick up a comic, she has fans from her television series, from cartoons, from basic character appreciation. I see kids everyday with Wonder Woman backpacks, the double W on wristbands, shirts or even hand drawn by students who wouldn't even know she had a comic. There is comic fans and there are character fans, this will appeal to neither. The folks who know nothing about comics which is the largest demographic of Wonder Woman fans I would wager simply know that she is an embodiment for a tough as nails chick. There is a reason you hear people joke that they are in their Wonder Woman panties on shows when a girl wants to seem tough and nowhere do you hear "In Wonder Woman issue 235..." I know you are a Wondy fan and there are a small group of others who are keeping the comic together barely but they are a small minority. It's like saying there are no Batman fans who never read the comic.

Kelley is trying to make Wonder Woman in the mold of his own jaded view of what a woman in her quarterlife would be. From everything said about the project makes it seem more like what if Wonder Woman were best friends with Ally McBeal or What if Denise Bauer or Katie Lloyd were actually Superheroes? I like Kelley's work for the most part, Boston Legal was one of my favorite shows while it was on but instead of taking this character and reinventing her for modern times or even treating this character seriously and keeping it clean, he is taking Diana and slapping her into his own created world.

Kelley is best at satire, his lawyers in The Practice or Boston Legal were all characters who were borderline hyperbole but still good at their job. Denny Crane was bat____ crazy yet still found a way to win. Alan Shore always found a way to put his own lunacies aside to win the case. Diana Prince sounds just like that, a woman who is wrapped up in her own life and surrounded by her own neurosis who happens to put things aside to save the day. Kelley is trying to prove that he can put his own slant on the comic world with Wondy as a muse. I guarantee you that he doesn't care about comic fans, cartoon fans or even the character fans because he is trying to make this David E. Kelley's Wonder Woman, just like JMS stamped his horrid take on Superman in Earth One (I don't care if it sold well it was blasphemous.) and Tim Burton did on Batman or Singer did on the X-Men. They tow the line, the whole "I respect..." blah blah blah but in reality they do whatever the hell they want and count on fans to enjoy it as they think we'll shallow anything thrown at us with a Marvel or DC stamp on it. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

This costume in its shiny leatherness it just another sign of that. I half expect her to say it was a Halloween costume to be used in a pinch. Jim Lee's comic change looks like a throwback to the 90s where she could stand next to Brandon Walsh and Kelly Taylor and fit right in at the Peach Pit. His update for the television series isn't any better.

 

[devilof76]

I think some people are just having a hard time understanding what sucks and what doesn't.

 

[Jair]

I never said comic fans. I said Wonder Woman fans. She is a staple of pop culture just as much as Superman or Batman in relativity. There are quite a few Wonder Woman fans who love the character but never once pick up a comic, she has fans from her television series, from cartoons, from basic character appreciation. I see kids everyday with Wonder Woman backpacks, the double W on wristbands, shirts or even hand drawn by students who wouldn't even know she had a comic. There is comic fans and there are character fans, this will appeal to neither. The folks who know nothing about comics which is the largest demographic of Wonder Woman fans I would wager simply know that she is an embodiment for a tough as nails chick. There is a reason you hear people joke that they are in their Wonder Woman panties on shows when a girl wants to seem tough and nowhere do you hear "In Wonder Woman issue 235..." I know you are a Wondy fan and there are a small group of others who are keeping the comic together barely but they are a small minority. It's like saying there are no Batman fans who never read the comic.

Kelley is trying to make Wonder Woman in the mold of his own jaded view of what a woman in her quarterlife would be. From everything said about the project makes it seem more like what if Wonder Woman were best friends with Ally McBeal or What if Denise Bauer or Katie Lloyd were actually Superheroes? I like Kelley's work for the most part, Boston Legal was one of my favorite shows while it was on but instead of taking this character and reinventing her for modern times or even treating this character seriously and keeping it clean, he is taking Diana and slapping her into his own created world.

Kelley is best at satire, his lawyers in The Practice or Boston Legal were all characters who were borderline hyperbole but still good at their job. Denny Crane was bat____ crazy yet still found a way to win. Alan Shore always found a way to put his own lunacies aside to win the case. Diana Prince sounds just like that, a woman who is wrapped up in her own life and surrounded by her own neurosis who happens to put things aside to save the day. Kelley is trying to prove that he can put his own slant on the comic world with Wondy as a muse. I guarantee you that he doesn't care about comic fans, cartoon fans or even the character fans because he is trying to make this David E. Kelley's Wonder Woman, just like JMS stamped his horrid take on Superman in Earth One (I don't care if it sold well it was blasphemous.) and Tim Burton did on Batman or Singer did on the X-Men. They tow the line, the whole "I respect..." blah blah blah but in reality they do whatever the hell they want and count on fans to enjoy it as they think we'll shallow anything thrown at us with a Marvel or DC stamp on it. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

This costume in its shiny leatherness it just another sign of that. I half expect her to say it was a Halloween costume to be used in a pinch. Jim Lee's comic change looks like a throwback to the 90s where she could stand next to Brandon Walsh and Kelly Taylor and fit right in at the Peach Pit. His update for the television series isn't any better.

I didn't mention you as a comic fan just as a WW fan, I have no idea if you read her comics. I meant fans in general, who are they? I think she has many fans like you stated, some comic book, some old tv show, some who just like the icon but I'll stand by opinion that there just isn't many of them. No one's been rushing to make a new WW tv show, other than Kelly I can't remember one even getting off the ground and I won't even bring up the attempted movies. I admit I've watched little of Kelly's shows, maybe have seen an episode or two of a few of them, I enjoy Harry's Law though but I'm willing to give it a chance.

It may not be your idea of WW or even mine but at least he's making an attempt to bring his idea of WW to the small screen. Who know's it could be a hit, the demographic could turn out to be women ages 25 to 45 for all I know. As much as most of us would like a WW alias/buffy kick ass female show, I don't see why producers would spend the cash on the WW tv license when they can just make that type of show with some no name female character, I'd imagine the license fees Kelly's paying are pretty high considering this is not a WB tv production (least I don't think it is).

I know you have strong opinions on comic characters from your other posts and thats fine but there are other's who have different opinions. I personally don't get that wrapped up in changes to comic icons, if I don't like it I won't watch or read it. I hope it gets picked up and does well, would be nice to see something other than superman/batman on tv.


Evan

 

[Spartan Rex]

I think some people are just having a hard time understanding what sucks and what doesn't.

Its over the top gaudy and cheap.
She has a masculine face with moles.
The gold looks like spray can gold.
It looks Diana came from Fredricks of Hollywood rather than mythological Paradise island.
She looks like a tarted up Charlie Sheen babe not the battle savy princess who could go toe to toe with Superman.
They couldnt even get a natural brunette to play her.
Its like Evel Knievel banged a porn star and this is the resulting abomination.

 

[Jair]

Its over the top gaudy and cheap.
She has a masculine face with moles.
The gold looks like spray can gold.
It looks Diana came from Fredricks of Hollywood rather than mythological Paradise island.
She looks like a tarted up Charlie Sheen babe not the battle savy princess who could go toe to toe with Superman.
They couldnt even get a natural brunette to play her.
Its like Evel Knievel banged a porn star and this is the resulting abomination.

Don't hold back!

 

[Kamandi]

Joss Whedon pitched a WW show last year, I'm certain it would have been a vast improvement over this.

 

[devilof76]

I thought it was a movie. And yes, a thousand times improved, no doubt.

Its over the top gaudy and cheap.
She has a masculine face with moles.
The gold looks like spray can gold.
It looks Diana came from Fredricks of Hollywood rather than mythological Paradise island.
She looks like a tarted up Charlie Sheen babe not the battle savy princess who could go toe to toe with Superman.
They couldnt even get a natural brunette to play her.
Its like Evel Knievel banged a porn star and this is the resulting abomination.

Kelley is shilling for another big network audience paycheck, and what better way for a creatively bankrupt hack to do it than to steal the thunder of a legend with which to peddle his 90's yuppie bull____.

 

[Jair]

Joss Whedon pitched a WW show last year, I'm certain it would have been a vast improvement over this.

Whedon pitched a movie about 5 years ago, when Silver productions still owned the movie rights to WW. No one has seen the script since no one is sure it was actually written. Though there are some rumors of what Whedon had come up with, one of them was no Amazons, she was a teenager and didn't have the superpowers she currently has.

There are some sketches of the costume redesign he was using around the net though

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/07/06/wonder-whedon-how-diana-might-have-looked-in-the-movie/


Evan

 

[devilof76]

...I stand corrected.

 

[Kabukiman]

Trying to work my head around the last statement here, what Wonder Woman fans? They don't buy the comic, it's never been a huge seller, so what fans are we speaking about?

Links or it didn't happen.

Wonder Woman isn't exactly a slouch on sales.
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19570.html
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19327.html
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19109.html
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18751.html
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18551.html

 

[The Mike]

No one's been rushing to make a new WW tv show, other than Kelly I can't remember one even getting off the ground and I won't even bring up the attempted movies.

Jesus Christ, the drippings of self righteousness. You do realize that Joel Silver is the reason that you haven't seen people running with Wonder Woman projects left and right? He has had the executive rights to Wonder Woman for over a decade, the same styled rights as Fox and Sony have for their Marvel character which included his production company in exclusive rights for both small and big screen. He cockblocked any Wondy projects the entire time he had it claiming that none of them were right. Jeff Rubinov, got the rights back at the same time as he got The Flash and BOOM! All of sudden there is a Wonder Woman pilot in the works and a Flash film fasttracked.

Lauren Shuler Donner was quoted as recently as June of last year as saying:

I'm campaigning to produce Wonder Woman for DC and Warners. They don't want it but I just think she's the greatest character. She's right up there, as you know, with Superman and Batman, the three of them. I want to produce Wonder Woman.

I've campaigned for it. I'm going to campaign some more. I want to produce Wonder Woman. Look, she's a goddess and a superhero. How great is that? I think you need to stay close to the myth but the studio I know wants to make it accessible, i.e. somewhat contemporary. I think there is a way to do it.

She is the producer behind all of the 20th Century Fox Marvel titles, has her hands in the Incredible Hulk cookie jar to get a another made after The Avengers and even did Constantine. I would say that is someone big going after this. Whedon wanted it and was doing it. Silver blocked it. McG made a pitch right after Charlie's Angels and it was blocked. Wachowski Bros pitched a film and it was blocked. Goyer wrote a script for it before Batman Begins and it was turned down. Rumors were that he took another shot in between both BB and TDK but nothing confirmed. As was mentioned before Whedon took another shot again in recent times.

As hard as they've been trying to find the right project for this (Thanks Silver for holding it in developmental hell) its a bit disappointing that as soon as DC Entertainment gets it back they greenlight it as fast as possible with Kelley's take. The ONLY reason Kelley is because it'll be on the air fast. DC Entertainment is losing Smallville and needs something on the little screen to replace it. Ironically the majority of the pitches were closer to the character's roots. Goyer's never produced piece supposedly read more like Clash of the Titans than anything else. Yet they went ultra contemporary...

Who knows maybe it'll shock and surprise and be witty and funny and memorable. As it is being pitched, my breath isn't being held.

 

[Jair]

Links or it didn't happen.

Wonder Woman isn't exactly a slouch on sales.
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19570.html
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19327.html
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19109.html
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18751.html
https://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18551.html

This is a good accounting of her sales for the past 50 years or so, like I said she's never been a big seller, occasionally she's had some good runs but....

https://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=301596

Evan

 

[Jair]

Jesus Christ, the drippings of self righteousness. You do realize that Joel Silver is the reason that you haven't seen people running with Wonder Woman projects left and right? He has had the executive rights to Wonder Woman for over a decade, the same styled rights as Fox and Sony have for their Marvel character which included his production company in exclusive rights for both small and big screen. He cockblocked any Wondy projects the entire time he had it claiming that none of them were right. Jeff Rubinov, got the rights back at the same time as he got The Flash and BOOM! All of sudden there is a Wonder Woman pilot in the works and a Flash film fasttracked.

Lauren Shuler Donner was quoted as recently as June of last year as saying:



She is the producer behind all of the 20th Century Fox Marvel titles, has her hands in the Incredible Hulk cookie jar to get a another made after The Avengers and even did Constantine. I would say that is someone big going after this. Whedon wanted it and was doing it. Silver blocked it. McG made a pitch right after Charlie's Angels and it was blocked. Wachowski Bros pitched a film and it was blocked. Goyer wrote a script for it before Batman Begins and it was turned down. Rumors were that he took another shot in between both BB and TDK but nothing confirmed. As was mentioned before Whedon took another shot again in recent times.

As hard as they've been trying to find the right project for this (Thanks Silver for holding it in developmental hell) its a bit disappointing that as soon as DC Entertainment gets it back they greenlight it as fast as possible with Kelley's take. The ONLY reason Kelley is because it'll be on the air fast. DC Entertainment is losing Smallville and needs something on the little screen to replace it. Ironically the majority of the pitches were closer to the character's roots. Goyer's never produced piece supposedly read more like Clash of the Titans than anything else. Yet they went ultra contemporary...

Who knows maybe it'll shock and surprise and be witty and funny and memorable. As it is being pitched, my breath isn't being held.

Not sure what you mean by drippings of self-righteouness, I think we all understand Joel Silver's blocking of any WW movie project, he owned the rights, had upwards of 6 or 7 script treatments done, some of which were pretty good and while keeping Whedon locked into limbo he purchased a WW script set back in WW2 that supposedly was the best thing since fried chicken but DC/Warner's at any point could have made a TV show, that was not covered under his movie rights.

I was extremely happy when DC in their big redo was able to get the rights back to WW as a movie and I loved that Lauren Donner expressed interest in producing, she even mentioned Katheryn Bieglow as a possible director, but I still don't see it happening. One would think with Lauren interested and her husband Richard being one of Geoff Johns best buddies something would get done but I don't think Warners is honestly interested in making a WW movie.

I also believe Kelly came out of the blue to Warners in asking to do a WW tv show, I don't think Warner's TV had any interest in doing one, they have mentioned doing a Raven show for the CW and Blue Beetle as well. Heck even CW passed on the Kelly show because of the costs associated with the production.

I don't begin to know the behind the scenes stuff but other than the 2 tv shows, one animated movie and some guest starring in cartoons , WW has been slim pickings in the media other than comics for the past 40 years.

I understand lot of WW fans aren't going to like the show but for better or worse I think this is gonna be it, unless some miracle happens and Warners decides to run contrary to their usual actions and gets a WW movie going.


Evan

 

[Kal-El]

those were the days

 

[Grange Wallis]

The second I saw the original photo, I was like, darken the blue pants and make the boots red!!! Exactly like this.

Also I reckon a leather would have worked better with some matt lyrica pants would have worked WAY better!

 

[Jmlsuperman]

Having read most sites now, I can say that I think most comments are generally the same. Porn Star, stripper, halloween costume, etc etc. Some are actually good critiques, but mostly rude, It's funny that so many are so angry, but lazy and cliche nonetheless.

I have to say, I'm working on the show, and she is indeed in the classic Wonder Woman outfit. I know that they've yet to release any photo of her in the classic outfit, because she IS in it. This was the 1st look, NOT THE BE ALL END ALL LOOK, certainly not the final pic of her. I don't style her, that's not my job, but with only 4 days of filming in the can, it's been great so far.

We should be happy they are making a WONDER WOMAN, for good or bad, sorry if you're not involved in the process. You can't please everybody apparently. I will say that the photoshopped red boots in the previous pic are great, and she does have them in the show. Just not with that outfit.

The studio have their reasons for not wanting to show them now, but be patient. Adrianne is killer in it, the director is great, it's gonna be fun.

 

[sifu74]

Have you asked the main people what made them choose shiny vinyl? They must know people would _____ about it, they aren't that dumb right?

 

[Jmlsuperman]

Have you asked the main people what made them choose shiny vinyl? They must know people would _____ about it, they aren't that dumb right?

I didn't. It's not my place. I just do my gig and go home to my family. I personally don't care what material was used for the suit, I'm sure many tests were done on what looked good on camera and what lets her move the best.

 

[Kamandi]

It's easy to hook onto the costume for critique because the original image looks photoshoped to the point of looking like a CG fan mockup.

Before anyone saw the costume I'm sure you noticed there were concerns over the leaked script. Batman doesn't curl up in a ball on the couch crying and eating chocolate. To do so to WW isn't edgy, it's pandering. I hope it was dropped before filming.