NFL Thread

[The Josh]

Other than QB every other play on the field reliess on that. Actually, if it wasn't for the Center the QB wouldn't have it. They all need each other to be great. Rice is just so much better than anyone else at his position there is really no debate with that spot. Thats why i'd go with Rice.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Just to me, the WR position is one more than any other position where I have to ask, "how much of the work was the QB and how much of the work was the WR".

Rice was obviously a great player and probably the best WR ever, but its hard to say he was the absolute GREATEST NFL PLAYER EVER when for most of his career he had 2 of the top 10 QBs of all time throwing him the ball.

A QB on the other hand will have probably 10-15 different WR and TE to work with over the course of a 10 year career. Rice was just 1 of a dozen or more WR Montana had to work with.

So I just feel easier giving "the greatest player ever" title to probably 3 or 4 QBs before I even consider another position, then I probably put 3 or 4 RBs in before considering a WR.

I'm not trying to knock Rice at all, just saying when I'm considering "Greatest NFL player ever" and thats 22 different positions on the field, a WR position to me always has the shadow of doubt about whether a great play had to do with the WR or the QB.

 

[EVILFACE]

QB > WR

I played a bit of outside receiver and while it does take speed and skill, the ball needs to at the correct spot at the right time, check the coverage and avoid being sacked/turning the ball over, and that takes more skill.

 

[sprig0701]

No love for the D when talking about greatest players ever? Having a good offense is great, but if you can't stop the other team from scoring you're SOL (Packers @ Cardinals WC game last season). Wheteher it was dynasties like the 70's Steelers with Joe Greene and such, or the 49ers with Ronnie Lott and co, or even the Pats recent run with Bruschi and the boys, great teams had great D's. Do you think the Ravens would have won SB XXXV without that D, or even the 85 Bears in SB XX? I, for one, am a bigger fan of defensive battles than I am of high scoring affairs. I'll go with the man that may have single handedly made the NFL more of a casual fans sport by beating the hell out of receivers in the 70's and creating the 5 yard contact rule, thus opening up the excitement of the passing game. Mel Blount - maybe not the greatest player ever, but arguably the biggest contributor to the play the game.

 

[Darth Cruel]

No love for the D when talking about greatest players ever? Having a good offense is great, but if you can't stop the other team from scoring you're SOL (Packers @ Cardinals WC game last season). Wheteher it was dynasties like the 70's Steelers with Joe Greene and such, or the 49ers with Ronnie Lott and co, or even the Pats recent run with Bruschi and the boys, great teams had great D's. Do you think the Ravens would have won SB XXXV without that D, or even the 85 Bears in SB XX? I, for one, am a bigger fan of defensive battles than I am of high scoring affairs. I'll go with the man that may have single handedly made the NFL more of a casual fans sport by beating the hell out of receivers in the 70's and creating the 5 yard contact rule, thus opening up the excitement of the passing game. Mel Blount - maybe not the greatest player ever, but arguably the biggest contributor to the play the game.

I am talking about what the individual player brought to the game. Joe Montana was not only (arguably) the best at playing the QB position. But he also brought a hell of a lot more to the game than just that. He was as respected a leader on the gridiron as any ever have been and his personality represented the NFL like giant among men. Few have brought the all-around package to the game and I can't think of any who did it as well as he did.

I like his recent commercials in which he jokes about a comeback. Does anyone know anyone who wouldn't welcome Joe back to the NFL is SOME capacity?

 

[OSCORP]

Really looking forward to getting on with the season (And for me the best ever is probably Joe Montana or Walter Payton, or just my faves i dunno )

 

[Darth Madden]

I'm ready for some football. I know Tampa Bay isn't going to make the playoffs but they have some good young players and it will be fun watching them. This is the foundation for a future Super Bowl Champ.

 

[karamazov80]

Folks who suggest the wide receiver is critically important (I'm not sure that anyone here is, btw), look at what Drew Brees has done in NO. He had a revolving door of WRs, and whoever was put in those positions thrived because he was so good. This happened to a lesser extent with Peyton Manning, because of various WRs coming and going. Jerry Rice was an all-time great, largely due to his longevity and work ethic, IMO. But I do think he would be considered more a glorified Chris Carter than a Jerry Rice if he didn't have Montana (and Young).

Defenses and O-lines are critically important to a team's success, however, but often get over-looked because they don't score points or do the flashy things that QBs and running backs do. But you take away decent offensive linemen, and you get Archie Manning's career.

 

[316what]

I have to go with Walter Payton. He did more with less. Same with Barry Sanders, but he retired early.

The choice takes nothing away from the greatness of Montana, Rice, Emmitt, etc...but each was surrounded by a fantastic supporting cast, whereas Payton was saddled with the Not Ready For Prime Time Players almost all of his career.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Barry Sanders is a hard one for me. His agility and moves are unrivaled. But there was a reason why he wasn't put in all that often in short yardage situations and IMO that reason is he couldn't read the line of scrimmage and hit the hole. He literally had to either back out of the line or immediately move horizontally as he got the handoff so that he could see the lay of the land.

I honestly have to wonder if he would know what to do if he had the Cowboys or Broncos o-line. I think he'd end up with the same stats or worse because both those lines are designed for 1 cut RBs.

I can't consider a running back the greatest ever when there is a real chance that he could take you from 2nd and Goal from the 2 yard line and turn it into a 4 yard loss where now you're facing 3rd and 6. Deal breaker.

 

[Deeznutz6]

I have to go with Walter Payton. He did more with less. Same with Barry Sanders, but he retired early.

The choice takes nothing away from the greatness of Montana, Rice, Emmitt, etc...but each was surrounded by a fantastic supporting cast, whereas Payton was saddled with the Not Ready For Prime Time Players almost all of his career.

QFT Sweetness FTW

 

[316what]

I can't consider a running back the greatest ever when there is a real chance that he could take you from 2nd and Goal from the 2 yard line and turn it into a 4 yard loss where now you're facing 3rd and 6. Deal breaker.

The same can be said for a QB who takes a sack or throws an INT.

 

[ProgMatinee]

The same can be said for a QB who takes a sack or throws an INT.

I can probably agree on that, though I think Kurt Warner had a ton of turnovers and I still love him and consider him one of the top 5 or 6 I have seen in my lifetime, but yeah, I wouldn't consider him over a guy like Montana that was pretty safe with the ball.

Elway and Favre both have a lot of INTs as well.

I think I rate my top 9 QBs no particular order(of who I seen play, I can't judge oldies)

Montana
Elway
Marino
Manning
Young
Warner
Favre
Moon
Brady

 

[Grenouille]

I have to go with QBs as the most important on the field. Based on what I've seen in my lifetime this is what my top 5 would look like.

1. Joe Montana

2. Tom Brady (Without being too homerish if the results of SB42 were different I'd say he'd be number 1. Sadly that day the offensive line didn't show up and was coupled with the Giants playing the game of lives. It was just a perfect storm.

3. John Elway

4. Peyton Manning - WAS just a stat machine, until Polian finally gave the team a defense to go with the already great offense. That '06 AFC title game still haunts me.

5. Dan Marino

 

[sprig0701]

I have to go with QBs as the most important on the field. Based on what I've seen in my lifetime this is what my top 5 would look like.

1. Joe Montana

2. Tom Brady (Without being too homerish if the results of SB42 were different I'd say he'd be number 1. Sadly that day the offensive line didn't show up and was coupled with the Giants playing the game of lives. It was just a perfect storm.

3. John Elway

4. Peyton Manning - WAS just a stat machine, until Polian finally gave the team a defense to go with the already great offense. That '06 AFC title game still haunts me.

5. Dan Marino

With Brady and Manning it has been shown that if you can get to them and knock them off of their square, you could render them somewhat ineffective. Elway and Favre were a double edge sword with huge benefits, since they were mobile and extended plays, and if they would have ever got Marino a running game he might be considered tops (though that in turn may have brought his stats down). I'd go 1. Montana, 2. Young, tied for 3. Elway/Favre, 4. Marino, 5. Moon - of the modern era.

 

[Darth Cruel]

OK. With the first full week of preseason football in the books I can say two things.

1) Like a heroine junkie, the fix was good...but it was like a fix of methodone. Not quite the real thing...but a passable substitute.

2) I have been saying for years that Charlie Batch is the go-to guy behind the rapist. Last night just went to add evidence to my claim. Let Batch fill in for the rapist until his suspension is ended.


Then trade the rapist and let Batch play!

 

[sprig0701]

OK. With the first full week of preseason football in the books I can say two things.

1) Like a heroine junkie, the fix was good...but it was like a fix of methodone. Not quite the real thing...but a passable substitute.

2) I have been saying for years that Charlie Batch is the go-to guy behind the rapist. Last night just went to add evidence to my claim. Let Batch fill in for the rapist until his suspension is ended.


Then trade the rapist and let Batch play!

Batch is not durable. He was put on IR in 08 for breaking his clavical during pre-season. That guy is happy being the back-up. And the first week is not over until after the Jets and Giants play at the new Meadowlands stadium on MNF tonight.

 

[BadMoon]

OK. With the first full week of preseason football in the books I can say two things.

1) Like a heroine junkie, the fix was good...but it was like a fix of methodone. Not quite the real thing...but a passable substitute.

2) I have been saying for years that Charlie Batch is the go-to guy behind the rapist. Last night just went to add evidence to my claim. Let Batch fill in for the rapist until his suspension is ended.

3) Kevin Kolb is ready to start and take over the reigns.

4) DeSean Jackson is the most exciting player in football

5) Eagles first string offence and defence looked solid

Then trade the rapist and let Batch play!

Added to your list.

 

[Darth Cruel]

Added to your list.

LOL...that kind of info about those two particular teams in the same quote is like putting matter and anti-matter in a cylinder together and shaking it up!

 

[Darth Cruel]

Batch is not durable. He was put on IR in 08 for breaking his clavical during pre-season. That guy is happy being the back-up. And the first week is not over until after the Jets and Giants play at the new Meadowlands stadium on MNF tonight.

I am happy to take a chance on him. And if he did get hurt, Leftwich is still there.