Official "Ridley Scott's Prometheus" Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

I'm glad you liked it. Since we've already talked about almost every single scene in the movie, I don't expect you to suddenly dislike it or be critical of it. It might very well be flawless for you but instead of taking pains to keep the discussion on those marvelous points of yours, you keep running out of steam and go back to overestimating your reasoning skills while underestimating everyone else. Rookie mistake.

I don't think the film is flawless. My points aren't marvelous, more along the lines of common damn sense, and if anything I've been trying to keep the discussion on the points I've been making, whereas everyone else seems to start either repeating themselves, or pulling out the biased/apologist crap.

Obnoxious. Pretentious. I like your syle! All you have to do is play off that so it won't be too annoying. Good luck!

As for the age thing, what is complaining to the world about being teased about being young going to do? You will find my sympathy between schidt and syphillis. Being young is awesome, stop calling attention to it like it was a disability. Pretty soon someone's gonna give you crutches.

Complaining to the world? Really?...Everytime my age has been brought up I've simply said "_______ number of times my age has been mentioned". I don't think that's making a big deal out of it whatsoever.
And I only mentioned it in one of my previous posts because I was going over the basic cycle of how the conversations have been playing out. Would you like me to go edit that part out?

This part, right here. This is all I said. I don't really see how this is "complaining to the world", or "calling attention to it like it's a disability".

But you're young and your brain isn't fully developed yet

 

[Devil_666]

You said "But you're young and your brain isn't fully developed yet" about yourself!? Or is that a quote fail!?

 

[Khev]

Devil you should catch this movie on the big screen, preferrably in 3D if you still can.

Imagine if a well reviewed movie came out called "Raiders of the Lost Ark" and a few people posted how stupid it was because the whole movie everyone is searching for an Ark and then it goes ape____ on everyone at the very end. Or another lame movie called "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" about a guy who does REALLY dumb things in the name of a UFO and then we never find out why the UFO comes or where it takes him.

I get that you may already be too entrenched in your perspective based on the postings and videos of a few internet cynics but seriously, give the movie a shot!

 

[Devil_666]

Here's the thing, even the positive, GOOD reviews say this movie has a flawed plot. Stunning visuals, some good acting (Mostly the Fass as David) but a flawed plot. It's not a conspiracy.

Imagine if a well reviewed movie came out called "Raiders of the Lost Ark" and a few people posted how stupid it was because the whole movie everyone is searching for an Ark and then it goes ape____ on everyone at the very end.

Here's the difference: It's clearly explained in the movie BY Indiana Jones himself, that human beings aren't meant to look into the ark. And if they do, they'll be destroyed. And beyond that, ROTLA is an adventure movie. The Ark isn't the point of the film, it's simply a MacGuffin. The movie is about Indiana Jones and his adventure-ish. You could replace the Ark with a black box and you'd still have the same movie.

Or another lame movie called "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" about a guy who does REALLY dumb things in the name of a UFO and then we never find out why the UFO comes or where it takes him.

Again, that movie isn't about WHY the UFO's come or where they plan to take him (and the others). It's about Roy and him dealing with the event and how it effects his sanity and family life. And it's about our species making contact with intelligent Alien life and knowing we're not alone in the universe. So not knowing exactly why the UFO's came or where they plan to take the people they've been abducting is irrelevant to the plot.

That's the big problem with Prometheus. Forget about all the other stuff we've discussed. The heart of Prometheus is simple: Humans search for our makers (Engineers) to find out WHY they made us and then WHY they wanted to destroy us. Neither of those questions are answered in the film. Period. Fans can make a zillion different theories but that's all they are, guesses. There's a BIG problem when the core of a movies plot is left unexplained. That's just terrible writing. And even if it was intentionally done to set up a sequel that's even worse.

Now with all that said, I still plan on watching this. Just at home. No way in hell I'm gonna pay like $40 to see this in a theater. I'll be more forgiving if I see it for like $3.99 on On-Demand.

 

[Khev]

Here's the thing, even the positive, GOOD reviews say this movie has a flawed plot. Stunning visuals, some good acting (Mostly the Fass as David) but a flawed plot. It's not a conspiracy.

That's fine if you want to leave it at that but honestly, if Raiders, Blade Runner, Close Encounters, etc., were released brand new today they'd have the same "complaints."

Here's the difference: It's clearly explained in the movie BY Indiana Jones himself, that human beings aren't meant to look into the ark. And if they do, they'll be destroyed. And beyond that, ROTLA is an adventure movie. The Ark isn't the point of the film, it's simply a MacGuffin. The movie is about Indiana Jones and his adventure-ish. You could replace the Ark with a black box and you'd still have the same movie.

Actually Indy DOESN'T explain that humans aren't supposed to look at it. He simply shrugs and says, "I don't know, the power of God or something," when someone points at a painting and asks what is reflecting out of the Ark.

Make no mistake, the Engineers are clearly the MaGuffin in Prometheus. Maybe fanboys seeking a "Matrix Reloaded"-style "Architect chat" are put off by that but turn the Engineers into a black box, like you suggest with Raiders (and which coincidentally enough actually made for a suitable villain in Kubrick's 2001), and Prometheus is still the same epic and awe inspiring movie. I certainly didn't sit there for two hours saying "come on, get to the Engineer," I loved and savored every moment leading up to it.

Okay maybe I didn't "love" the staging of the hammerpede, but that's a small exception.

 

[Devil_666]

Actually Indy DOESN'T explain that humans aren't supposed to look at it. He simply shrugs and says, "I don't know, the power of God or something," when someone points at a painting and asks what is reflecting out of the Ark.

When the two Army Intelligence guys come and see Indy and Marcus and start asking about the Ark, Both Indy & Marcus tell them what the Ark is and what it holds (fragments of the ten commandments) who built it (Israelites) and the power it contains (the wrath of God). Brody even mentions the Bible stating the Arks power (able to level mountains and cities).

That + Telling Marion not to look when Belloq opens the Ark + Everyone who DOES look dying horribly + A fire consuming all the people who looked, up into the sky + The lid falling back down and perfectly closing the ark + Thunder from the heavens = Explained.

i.e. you don't have to come up with a theory or guess.

Make no mistake, the Engineers are clearly the MaGuffin in Prometheus.

Then that's a problem. Because according to Ridley Scott, they're not. They're the central theme in Prometheus. He's already stated that the main concept of Prometheus is the theory of "Ancient Astronauts" which proposes that Humans were helped along with our evolution/advancement by extraterrestrials. Some theories go even further and state that extraterrestrials made us too. That was the main idea Ridley had in mind with Prometheus.

The contents of the briefcase in Pulp Fiction is a MacGuffin, because what's in it is irrelevant and doesn't change the outcome of the movie. Now imagine if Tarentino stated the exact opposite and said the contents WERE important. That would be a big problem since the contents are never revealed. So if Ridley Scott is saying that the theory of "Ancient Astronauts" is the core of Prometheus and you're here saying the Engineers are just a MacGuffin, you don't see the contradiction there?

If that were true, Scott would never have said it was important to begin with and you never would've seen ANY Engineers at all in the movie. Because that would've just been the driving force to get the crew to LV-223. But then what!? Something else (not related to the Engineers) would have to happen. But it's the exact opposite. This whole movie and everything in it revolves around the Engineers. So the idea that they're just fodder to advance the plot doesn't jibe. Sorry.

 

[CelticPredator]

The planet is the McGuffen. And all the wonderful things that come from it.

 

[Devil_666]

I like Sausage/Egg McMuffins.

 

[CelticPredator]

I prefer them with black goo. Which is also the same substance that makes McDonald's Coffee!

 

[Khev]

When the two Army Intelligence guys come and see Indy and Marcus and start asking about the Ark, Both Indy & Marcus tell them what the Ark is and what it holds (fragments of the ten commandments) who built it (Israelites) and the power it contains (the wrath of God). Brody even mentions the Bible stating the Arks power (able to level mountains and cities).

That + Telling Marion not to look when Belloq opens the Ark + Everyone who DOES look dying horribly + A fire consuming all the people who looked, up into the sky + The lid falling back down and perfectly closing the ark + Thunder from the heavens = Explained.

i.e. you don't have to come up with a theory or guess.

Actually you do have to guess. Because the Ark is presented as something that makes the army who possesses/carries it "invincible." And it clearly did not. In fact it made said army quite the opposite of "invincible."

There was NEVER a caveat that it makes armies invincible unless...they look at it. That came completely out of the blue at the last minute. You can't even say "oh the Nazis were evil and God was just going to wipe them out" because if that were the case why did Indy and Marion have to behave differently in order to survive? Your speculation is as good as mine.

Then that's a problem. Because according to Ridley Scott, they're not. They're the central theme in Prometheus. He's already stated that the main concept of Prometheus is the theory of "Ancient Astronauts" which proposes that Humans were helped along with our evolution/advancement by extraterrestrials. Some theories go even further and state that extraterrestrials made us too. That was the main idea Ridley had in mind with Prometheus.

The contents of the briefcase in Pulp Fiction is a MacGuffin, because what's in it is irrelevant and doesn't change the outcome of the movie. Now imagine if Tarentino stated the exact opposite and said the contents WERE important. That would be a big problem since the contents are never revealed. So if Ridley Scott is saying that the theory of "Ancient Astronauts" is the core of Prometheus and you're here saying the Engineers are just a MacGuffin, you don't see the contradiction there?

I'm glad you brought up Pulp Fiction. Because Quentin Tarantino himself stated on Charlie Rose that he always believes that the audience is the final piece of the filmmaking puzzle when interpretating what's presented on screen or something to that effect. He said the audience gets to take anything not defined onscreen and make it their own, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE DIRECTOR SAYS in outside interviews.

They even had a caller call in and ask Tarantino what was in the briefcase. He said "what I think is in the briefcase is irrelevant, what do YOU think was in it?" Of course the idiot caller couldn't think of anything but I applauded Tarantino's mindset. George Lucas can claim all he wants that Star Wars was always about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. I. Don't. Care. I watch the unmolested OT and I see films that are clearly about Luke.

You don't spell it out onscreen then it's up to audience interpretation. Was Total Recall (Schwarzenegger version) all real or all his implanted memory? Doesn't matter what Verhoeven says. It isn't stated in the movie so we all get to decide whatever we think and whatever we prefer.

Prometheus might have been a "happy accident" based on what Scott might be claiming to the press (and believ me Space Jesus = DUMB), but what a happy thing indeed.

 

[Devil_666]

Actually you do have to guess. Because the Ark is presented as something that makes the army who possesses/carries it "invincible."

Actually it isn't presented like that. That's the thing. Brody says that people ASSUME whoever possesses the Ark will be invincible. But he also clearly states that other than the Israelites (who were not an invincible army) who built it solely to house fragments of the ten commandments, the only other people they know who had it in their possession had their entire city buried by a year long sandstorm. That's anything BUT invincible.

That whole invincibility thing is conjecture. Based on the bible's description of the Ark's power and what it's supposedly capable of doing. But no where does it state that whoever has the Ark can use it as a weapon. That's just what people THINK. It's like the Army thinking if they can control The Hulk they'd have the perfect weapon. Well yeah, only problem is you CAN'T control that ____er.

You don't spell it out onscreen then it's up to audience interpretation.

You don't spell it out onscreen then that's terrible, half-assed writing.

 

[Viking Spawn]

I prefer them with black goo. Which is also the same substance that makes McDonald's Coffee!

So true.

 

[Khev]

Actually it isn't presented like that. That's the thing. Brody says that people ASSUME whoever possesses the Ark will be invincible.

Right and that wrong assumption drives the whole movie. Just like the incorrect assumptions that Engineers will either a.) answer our questions or b.) provide us with the means to live forever drives Prometheus.

Multiple people are searching for Pandora's Box, some with noble intentions, some with selfish motivations, chaos ensues and questions are left unanswered.

You don't spell it out onscreen then that's terrible, half-assed writing.

Well I guess Raiders, Close Encounters, and Academy Award winning writers are all wrong and you're right. Who knew?

Who watches an Alien movie with the expectation that the greatest questions of the universe will be answered?

No, we watch these movies to see what kind of horrors the characters discover, who lives, who dies, and what the survivors do to survive. Total B movie stuff. But every once in a while a movie like Star Wars or Raiders of the Lost Ark or Alien or...Prometheus comes along that totally transcends its B grade roots and is a true masterpiece, with or without flaws.

 

[Devil_666]

I like how you try to group Prometheus in with Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark & Alien. Classic.

 

[greygoose]

I like Sausage/Egg McMuffins.

Does this pretty much sum up the last few pages in this thread?

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

More like the last 595 pages.

 

[Khev]

I like how you try to group Prometheus in with Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark & Alien. Classic.

Why, have you not watched those movies either?

 

[Shropt]

Have you guys seen Scott's Robin Hood? Do you defend that film as much as this one or is it just because it's an ALIEN film?

 

[Khev]

Nice loaded question.

Haven't seen Robin Hood. My favorite Scott film prior to Prometheus was actually Black Hawk Down, not Alien.

 

[Viking Spawn]

Have you guys seen Scott's Robin Hood? Do you defend that film as much as this one or is it just because it's an ALIEN film?

Seen it. Did not like it.

My favorite Ridley films are Alien, Prometheus, Gladiator, and Blade Runner. The rest are "meh" to me.