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Right... So they would abandon the moral storyline in favor of bringing him back? Thinking he didn't really die is just stupid and ignorant.
Official "The Dark Knight" SPOILER Thread
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Right... So they would abandon the moral storyline in favor of bringing him back? Thinking he didn't really die is just stupid and ignorant.
I wouldnt want another actor to play him.
Ok, first----This Movie IS AMAZING! Wow! I was really surprised, it was so extreme, I can't say enough good things about it, and I'm really glad I ordered the HT Joker figure.
All the characters were great, Eckhart did a great job as Two-face, and his death was really unexpected to me, although it makes sense how Nolan was saying before that he wasn't thinking of a third movie.
At this point I can't really see them making a third, with Two-Face dead (it would destroy the story for this is they brought him back) and Heath unable to return for the Joker, the only other villain I could think that would be good is maybe Mr. Freeze or Catwoman, and there's no way that those could top this, and unless something can top this, it'll just be a disappointment.
All the characters were great, Eckhart did a great job as Two-face, and his death was really unexpected to me, although it makes sense how Nolan was saying before that he wasn't thinking of a third movie.
At this point I can't really see them making a third, with Two-Face dead (it would destroy the story for this is they brought him back) and Heath unable to return for the Joker, the only other villain I could think that would be good is maybe Mr. Freeze or Catwoman, and there's no way that those could top this, and unless something can top this, it'll just be a disappointment.
8th wonder
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JGouse0498
Super Freak
Just got back from a fully-packed midnight showing. Couple thoughts before I go to sleep.
1) I can't understand why some are saying the last 30 minutes doesn't fit in or that the movie drags too long. Everything felt like it flowed together well, and it did so particularly well in those last 30-45 minutes.
2) Scarecrow. Nolan's only horrible mis-step. The character was done brilliantly in Batman Begins, but this cameo gave him a terrible, tacky ending. So now he's a perfectly sane drug dealer??? WTF?! And his one-liner was terrible.
3) Heath Ledger's performance. It was extremely good, and he certainly made the Joker terrifying and funny at the same time. However, I don't agree that it set a new bar for villainy, and I can see why some are saying the Oscar may be out of reach. It wasn't quite the be-all, end-all performance we were expecting. But it was the perfect portrayal of the Joker, and he was the right man for the job. The physical part of his performance was amazing.
4) Two-Face was handled pretty well, and I like how they showed Harvey's darker edge even before he was burned. You could tell that he had the potential to snap. That rage was already inside him, but he kept it hidden and somewhat controlled. But he wasn't the "white knight" Gotham thought he was, so the transformation was believable.
5) The "Nurse" Joker and Two-Face scene was probably the best scene of the film. And Joker's problems with the detonator as he walked away from Gotham General was superb physical comedy.
That's about all for now. It wasn't the masterpiece many of us had hyped it up to be, but could any film have met that bar?? I think not. But The Dark Knight was an incredible film and one of my favorites.
1) I can't understand why some are saying the last 30 minutes doesn't fit in or that the movie drags too long. Everything felt like it flowed together well, and it did so particularly well in those last 30-45 minutes.
2) Scarecrow. Nolan's only horrible mis-step. The character was done brilliantly in Batman Begins, but this cameo gave him a terrible, tacky ending. So now he's a perfectly sane drug dealer??? WTF?! And his one-liner was terrible.
3) Heath Ledger's performance. It was extremely good, and he certainly made the Joker terrifying and funny at the same time. However, I don't agree that it set a new bar for villainy, and I can see why some are saying the Oscar may be out of reach. It wasn't quite the be-all, end-all performance we were expecting. But it was the perfect portrayal of the Joker, and he was the right man for the job. The physical part of his performance was amazing.
4) Two-Face was handled pretty well, and I like how they showed Harvey's darker edge even before he was burned. You could tell that he had the potential to snap. That rage was already inside him, but he kept it hidden and somewhat controlled. But he wasn't the "white knight" Gotham thought he was, so the transformation was believable.
5) The "Nurse" Joker and Two-Face scene was probably the best scene of the film. And Joker's problems with the detonator as he walked away from Gotham General was superb physical comedy.
That's about all for now. It wasn't the masterpiece many of us had hyped it up to be, but could any film have met that bar?? I think not. But The Dark Knight was an incredible film and one of my favorites.
I saw this in IMAX again tonight and I DID see Two-Face take ONE breath after the fall. Just one, and it was minor. Very minor, but he did breathe. So not dead. HARVEY DENT is dead, but NOT TWO-FACE. Remember its the same body, but two different people. He could easily come back and not ruin Harvey's rep because he would be "two-face" and not Harvey Dent. Or else that could play into the story, caos ensues because the public find out about Two-face. That could tear Gotham apart.
I could also see Scarecrow comming back because in the first two films he is just a pawn and opening scene villian. He hasn't been able to fully be expressed yet. He and Two-Face could make a great pair of villians.
But I honestly just don't know how they can top this. This is the Empire Strikes Back of the trilogy - the best one, but not the last one.
I could also see Scarecrow comming back because in the first two films he is just a pawn and opening scene villian. He hasn't been able to fully be expressed yet. He and Two-Face could make a great pair of villians.
But I honestly just don't know how they can top this. This is the Empire Strikes Back of the trilogy - the best one, but not the last one.
Sachiel
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My brother told me after the movie that in a photo or a clip (have to ask) he saw shows him burning. Looks like it was cut.
BTW, wasn't there talk of a Director's Cut or am I getting confused with another movie?
plasmid303
Super Freak
Ok, saw it with the buds at midnight. Get ready to read another opinion.
I'm going to be lynched for this. Admittedly, after viewing the film and whilst walking back into the theater parking lot, I was giddy over what I had just seen. As time wore on, through the drive back home, I began to realize that for every thought of the great parts of the film, a sub-par aspect of it crept into my head. It's a satisfying experience, sure, but I'd be lying if I said it was incredible.
The narrative is clunky. Every character seems keen on belting out nothing but philosophical ponderings over the nature of good and evil, duality and so forth and so on. I know, I know, It's a big thing in the comics, but it just doesn't work in a film of this genre. The dialogue itself doesn't progress the story, it stalls it and gives expository detailing to an event that's already passed. I thought one of my friends said it perfectly: "Show me what's happening, don't tell me."
And the pacing and editing is just all over the place. Harvey and Rachel were abducted? What? How? Well, thanks for telling me after the fact.
Next, once again the villains are more interesting than Batman himself. But I guess it's unfair of me to complain about this, seeing as the Joker is the main villain and all.
I loved everything else about the film though. Heard some complaints from more than a few viewers who thought it was too dark; I thought it was pointless (at this point in time) to argue with them. They just don't get it.
So to conclude my rambling (sorry), I enjoyed TDK, but the hype got me. It did it again. What pains me is the niggling sense that I might have loved this movie more if I wasn't anticipating it so goddamn much.
EDIT: Btw, I still consider it the best superhero movie ever. EVER. For all it's shortcomings, it still left me with that impression.
I'm going to be lynched for this. Admittedly, after viewing the film and whilst walking back into the theater parking lot, I was giddy over what I had just seen. As time wore on, through the drive back home, I began to realize that for every thought of the great parts of the film, a sub-par aspect of it crept into my head. It's a satisfying experience, sure, but I'd be lying if I said it was incredible.
The narrative is clunky. Every character seems keen on belting out nothing but philosophical ponderings over the nature of good and evil, duality and so forth and so on. I know, I know, It's a big thing in the comics, but it just doesn't work in a film of this genre. The dialogue itself doesn't progress the story, it stalls it and gives expository detailing to an event that's already passed. I thought one of my friends said it perfectly: "Show me what's happening, don't tell me."
And the pacing and editing is just all over the place. Harvey and Rachel were abducted? What? How? Well, thanks for telling me after the fact.
Next, once again the villains are more interesting than Batman himself. But I guess it's unfair of me to complain about this, seeing as the Joker is the main villain and all.
I loved everything else about the film though. Heard some complaints from more than a few viewers who thought it was too dark; I thought it was pointless (at this point in time) to argue with them. They just don't get it.
So to conclude my rambling (sorry), I enjoyed TDK, but the hype got me. It did it again. What pains me is the niggling sense that I might have loved this movie more if I wasn't anticipating it so goddamn much.
EDIT: Btw, I still consider it the best superhero movie ever. EVER. For all it's shortcomings, it still left me with that impression.
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Les Walker
Digging my way out!
Harvey is alive. I think he is supposed to be in part 3 anyway, so alive.
And yeah, with a night to sleep on it, was I left with a THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE MOVIES feeling? Not exactly. I love the movie, but I am not where I was after I first saw BB. Sorry. Not. The movie itself is arguably better. The performances great. Just, there is something I like about a Batman movie or comic that was missing somehow. Fun. No fun here. At least the Joker was funny. That helped. But this seems more like a 90's movie somehow, like the Crow or other somber story.
Maybe it is merely the second act, the downer and obsticle laden section, and the third will be the opus I was expecting here. That's what it is I think, that this is NOT the end or buildup, but the setup. If so, I can live with that.
Gordon was awesome! Dent was awesome! I know I am about to be utterly skewered for this one, but I prefered Katie Holmes in this role...(ducks flying debris) ...and I wish there had been more of Maroni and the other gangsters. And yes, way more of Scarecrow. That was such a sneeze of a role. I could have been the damned guy for all the good it was.
Ledger was astonishing though. I must admit. What sticks with me? Him. Twoface, the FEAR part, the sense of dread, and seeing why these are BATMAN movies and not VILLAIN movies, as in, finally, here's SWAT! There goes SWAT! So much for experts, against The BATMAN! Yeah baby! Love that! This is frikkin' Batman, not some minor league comics guy, one of the hall of Comics Gods pantheon guys, up there hanging out with Superman in the JL in some other wacked out universe. So, yeah. Batman. That guy. No minor leaguer. Ever.
For me, always, it's all about the Bat. The villains, no matter how great, or how well played, only define the hero. They are the seasoning in the stew. But this is Bat stew. Always will be.
Great movie though. Still like it a lot. We'll see what repeated viewings bring.
Still, seeing Heath in that nurse outfit, shaking that remote, that sticks with you.
And yeah, with a night to sleep on it, was I left with a THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE MOVIES feeling? Not exactly. I love the movie, but I am not where I was after I first saw BB. Sorry. Not. The movie itself is arguably better. The performances great. Just, there is something I like about a Batman movie or comic that was missing somehow. Fun. No fun here. At least the Joker was funny. That helped. But this seems more like a 90's movie somehow, like the Crow or other somber story.
Maybe it is merely the second act, the downer and obsticle laden section, and the third will be the opus I was expecting here. That's what it is I think, that this is NOT the end or buildup, but the setup. If so, I can live with that.
Gordon was awesome! Dent was awesome! I know I am about to be utterly skewered for this one, but I prefered Katie Holmes in this role...(ducks flying debris) ...and I wish there had been more of Maroni and the other gangsters. And yes, way more of Scarecrow. That was such a sneeze of a role. I could have been the damned guy for all the good it was.
Ledger was astonishing though. I must admit. What sticks with me? Him. Twoface, the FEAR part, the sense of dread, and seeing why these are BATMAN movies and not VILLAIN movies, as in, finally, here's SWAT! There goes SWAT! So much for experts, against The BATMAN! Yeah baby! Love that! This is frikkin' Batman, not some minor league comics guy, one of the hall of Comics Gods pantheon guys, up there hanging out with Superman in the JL in some other wacked out universe. So, yeah. Batman. That guy. No minor leaguer. Ever.
For me, always, it's all about the Bat. The villains, no matter how great, or how well played, only define the hero. They are the seasoning in the stew. But this is Bat stew. Always will be.
Great movie though. Still like it a lot. We'll see what repeated viewings bring.
Still, seeing Heath in that nurse outfit, shaking that remote, that sticks with you.
Sick Boy 82
Super Freak
Nice little review Les!
Going to eat some bat stew right now! 10AM IMAX!!!
Going to eat some bat stew right now! 10AM IMAX!!!
Saw it at a sold-out midnight showing and I thought it was really good. Much better than Batman Begins and just as enjoyable for me as Iron Man was. I loved that it was so gritty and dark. Bale is the first actor who has been able to nail how I feel Batman and Bruce Wayne should be portrayed; actors of the past have hit on one or the other, but not both, IMO.
I liked Ledger's role as the Joker. He was so creepy and unnerving. The whole time I kept trying to figure out what was going on in his head. His performance was good, no doubt, but not Oscar-worthy, IMO. I liked Harvey Dent/Two-face a lot more, honestly.
And I loved Gary Oldman's performance. When Gordon showed back up again in the film, the audience cheered and clapped. He was the only character that got that kind of reaction from the audience.
I liked Ledger's role as the Joker. He was so creepy and unnerving. The whole time I kept trying to figure out what was going on in his head. His performance was good, no doubt, but not Oscar-worthy, IMO. I liked Harvey Dent/Two-face a lot more, honestly.
And I loved Gary Oldman's performance. When Gordon showed back up again in the film, the audience cheered and clapped. He was the only character that got that kind of reaction from the audience.
NSFolsom
I Ain't Fraid Of No Ghost
Harvey Dent is not disfigured by acid. The building he was being held in blows up. The gasoline on his face is ignited by the explosion after Batman gets him out of the building... Almost in time. What happens in the courtroom is pretty awesome. The witness on the stand pulls a gun on Harvey. Harvey just looks down at the gun, pushes it out of the way and punches the guy on the stand right in the face and takes the gun away. Awesome stuff.
Also the women Wayne has on his yacht are from the Russian ballet. He needed an alibi, or reason, to be in/near Hong Kong so he could capture Lau by force and bring him back to Gotham.
I apologize if this has already been brought up but I'm afraid I've joined this thread late. This is all pretty obvious to those that have seen the film already.
hairlesswookiee
PALPATINE CRUSADER!!!!
loved this movie!!! can't get over it. and i recommend buying the soundtrack!!! it was perfect jamming it out while leaving the theater.
~~just one question though--was that really the Scarecrow?? i was under the impression that he was a copycat or something.
~~just one question though--was that really the Scarecrow?? i was under the impression that he was a copycat or something.
NSFolsom
I Ain't Fraid Of No Ghost
I saw it at 6:30 this morning and am seeing it again almost exactly 12 hours later too! I loved it too. HOLY FRUITCAGE! It was amazing. Just amazing.
Yes, the soundtrack is excellent. I've been listening to it for the last 3-4 weeks (I got it early. Thanks, Internet).
Yes, that was Scarecrow. Blink and you'll miss him. I thought it was weird Bats just left him there with the fake bat 'men' and takes off.
Les Walker
Digging my way out!
Haven't seen the film and this thread is too long to read through, but could someone tell me the relevance of Batmans forearm gizmo please.
He was using it to cut into a crook's moving van while hanging on outside it, only to be knocked off before achieving whatever it was he was doing, so I think it is a mystery, a bit, other than the obvious can opener thing. Not sure what else it is though...
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Caught a midnight showing here as well.
I'm still processing this amazing film. Just a few random thoughts....
I sat there taking this in thinking..."I can't believe a studio let him do this". Not once did I have that "studio interference" vibe...the screen play was unrelenting in it's intelligence and stayed true to what it was doing right to the end. And that end! Wow...if Nolan follows the path the end of this lays out with the next one...well, let's just say if we thought this was dark than we ain't seen nothing yet.
All of the performances were excellent. Everyone had their "A-game" on.
About Ledger...yes, the performance is mesmerizing, but the quality about it I really liked was that it wasn't hammy or overdone. The few times he's cackling with glee, there was a build-up to it that made it work. And that pencil trick....made the audience burst into nervous laughter and applause.
I don't get the complaints about Bale I've read here and elsewhere...I thought he was perfect. Maggie brought a warmth and sense of reality and struggle to Rachael that Ms. Cruise couldn't have and made her fate feel all the more tragic for it.
Some have also complained about Harvey's fate and the fallout from it feeling rushed. I didn't get that feeling at at. It was supposed to be quick...and Dent's reactions to what happened to him were tragic and perfect...and that visage! Wow...great job with that...impossible, maybe but stunning and haunting nonetheless.
And Oldman....who'd have thought the British thespian who brought us such intense stunners as Sid Vicious would end up portraying the perfect American everyman? He is great and yes, the audience I viewed this with burst into applause at his reveal as well...
And...this film was paced just fine...no padding in my book...I never once checked the time while watching...
I could go on and on....but I want to see this again and really absorb the nuances even more.
This is truly an exceptional film....
I'm still processing this amazing film. Just a few random thoughts....
I sat there taking this in thinking..."I can't believe a studio let him do this". Not once did I have that "studio interference" vibe...the screen play was unrelenting in it's intelligence and stayed true to what it was doing right to the end. And that end! Wow...if Nolan follows the path the end of this lays out with the next one...well, let's just say if we thought this was dark than we ain't seen nothing yet.
All of the performances were excellent. Everyone had their "A-game" on.
About Ledger...yes, the performance is mesmerizing, but the quality about it I really liked was that it wasn't hammy or overdone. The few times he's cackling with glee, there was a build-up to it that made it work. And that pencil trick....made the audience burst into nervous laughter and applause.
I don't get the complaints about Bale I've read here and elsewhere...I thought he was perfect. Maggie brought a warmth and sense of reality and struggle to Rachael that Ms. Cruise couldn't have and made her fate feel all the more tragic for it.
Some have also complained about Harvey's fate and the fallout from it feeling rushed. I didn't get that feeling at at. It was supposed to be quick...and Dent's reactions to what happened to him were tragic and perfect...and that visage! Wow...great job with that...impossible, maybe but stunning and haunting nonetheless.
And Oldman....who'd have thought the British thespian who brought us such intense stunners as Sid Vicious would end up portraying the perfect American everyman? He is great and yes, the audience I viewed this with burst into applause at his reveal as well...
And...this film was paced just fine...no padding in my book...I never once checked the time while watching...
I could go on and on....but I want to see this again and really absorb the nuances even more.
This is truly an exceptional film....
AWESOME MOVIE. but not the "Masterpiece" some of you are making it out to be IMO.
Can't wait for the Blu-ray!
Can't wait for the Blu-ray!
NSFolsom
I Ain't Fraid Of No Ghost
Before that, according to what I saw and what I remember, Bats used those things as brass-knuckles of sorts. It was quick but I thought I saw it flip up in front of his fist right before he started handing out beat downs to the Chechyan mob dudes.
A great line, one of many in the film, was Scarecrow's. Once Bats makes his entrance in the tumbler by breaking through the parking garage wall and crushing a few cars for his trouble...
"Now that's more like it..."
Another was from one of Joker's henchman, once the Joker is driving the semi...
"He missed!"
NSFolsom
I Ain't Fraid Of No Ghost
Also, before I take my much needed nap, this movie made me cry three, no, make that four times. Once when Gordon 'died' and the second was when Gordon was revealed to be alive after all. The third, Gordon coming home and his wife slapping him after he tells her that he did it for their, his family's, protection, proceeded by her own tears and finally hugging her husband. The fourth when Rachel died.
Two other moments, regarding Harvey's coin, that maybe the strongest in the whole movie for me. Rachel takes Harvey's coin only to find out that he really does make his own luck when she flips it over and seeing the coin has heads on both sides. After Rachel dies, Bats finds the coin, sees the clean heads, flips it over revealing the other side is scarred just like Harvey. Duh. The real painful-soul wrenching climax of these setups is when Harvey is in the hospital and see his lucky coin next to him. He picks it up and inspects it. First seeing the clean side then the scarred side. At this moment he knows Rachel is dead. FRUITCAGE POWERFUL stuff, man.
Two other moments, regarding Harvey's coin, that maybe the strongest in the whole movie for me. Rachel takes Harvey's coin only to find out that he really does make his own luck when she flips it over and seeing the coin has heads on both sides. After Rachel dies, Bats finds the coin, sees the clean heads, flips it over revealing the other side is scarred just like Harvey. Duh. The real painful-soul wrenching climax of these setups is when Harvey is in the hospital and see his lucky coin next to him. He picks it up and inspects it. First seeing the clean side then the scarred side. At this moment he knows Rachel is dead. FRUITCAGE POWERFUL stuff, man.
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