Official "The Dark Knight" SPOILER Thread

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This is how i read it, i'm completely wrong, but to me it makes sense;

Dents threatening to kill the boy at the end of the film was a play on Dent's and Rachel's desperate hope of survival. Deep down inside he was never going to hurt the boy, he was always going to shoot Gordon...as Gordon was playing out Rachel's part in the "play", telling his son that he was going to be ok...when in truth he never was in danger as he was only standing in place of Dent himself.

They should have shown some more obvious "darkness" to Dent during the lead up to him becoming disfigured, but they didnt.


if any of that makes any sense...you get a cookiee

I see it the opposite of that, Gordon's mistake lead to Rachel dieing and Harvey dealing with that loss. Harvey said he wanted to take away something that Gordon loved making Gordon feel the way he does. So the Boy is Rachel and Gordon is Harvey in that reenactment. Harvey wanted to Hurt Gordon they way Gordon hurt him, by taking away something Gordon loved.


MaulFan, I've seen some of the animated series but not all of it, and nothing pertaining to Two Face (Loved the Mr. Freeze movie). But I shouldn't have had to see an animated Batman series or comic to fully understand and except the Dark Knight's story. The movie should rest on it's own merits.
 
Did anyone else bring their kid(S)? I brang my 6 year old girl to this and she had no trouble just as i thought.
 
In the real world having your girlfriend blown up and having half your face burned off may not be traumatic enough to make someone want to kill the kid of someone that they feel is responsible for what happened. However I figure if losing two parents and living in a crime ridden city is enough to make a billionaire dress up as a bat and beat the crap out of bad guys at night then its not that far of a stretch.
 
I see it the opposite of that, Gordon's mistake lead to Rachel dieing and Harvey dealing with that loss. Harvey said he wanted to take away something that Gordon loved making Gordon feel the way he does. So the Boy is Rachel and Gordon is Harvey in that reenactment. Harvey wanted to Hurt Gordon they way Gordon hurt him, by taking away something Gordon loved.


MaulFan, I've seen some of the animated series but not all of it, and nothing pertaining to Two Face (Loved the Mr. Freeze movie). But I shouldn't have had to see an animated Batman series or comic to fully understand and except the Dark Knight's story. The movie should rest on it's own merits.

he wasn't actually starting crime, he wasn't killing random people for fun or money... he went for those responsible... the mob, the corrupt cops and gordon... and in essence.. batman too..
 
MaulFan, I've seen some of the animated series but not all of it, and nothing pertaining to Two Face (Loved the Mr. Freeze movie). But I shouldn't have had to see an animated Batman series or comic to fully understand and except the Dark Knight's story. The movie should rest on it's own merits.

I get that, I was trying to say that if it weren't for the other sources I've got in my background, I'd probably be right with your view of things, and that the film is weak for not making some things much more clear to the viewers without background on the characters.
 
Saw TDK the other day and thought it was v.good. Definitely need to watch it again! Ledger's Joker was excellent but was anyone else bothered by his tongue flicking? I thought it was a nice creepy touch when I was watching the trailers but seems he over used it alot in the movie... not a trait I'd associate with the Joker imo. Still loved it despite this little nit pick
 
I loved the tongue licking and such, I thought it was a great way of implying his insanity through phsyical gestures, every time he does it I get the sense that he's totally nuts.
 
Yeah he looks real creepy when he does it, no doubts there! Just not very Joker-ish imo... can't explain why... just doesn't sit right with me. I'll probably get used to it after my 3rd or 4th viewing.
 
Oddly enough my view is the exact opposite. I didn't like it when I saw it in the trailers and didn't think it was Joker-like (along with several other things). But then when I saw the movie it seemed to fit in with this version of the Joker just fine.
 
Oddly enough my view is the exact opposite. I didn't like it when I saw it in the trailers and didn't think it was Joker-like (along with several other things). But then when I saw the movie it seemed to fit in with this version of the Joker just fine.

That's it in a nutshell, it fits THIS Joker. I think with any Batman movie, and especially Nolan's films, you have to throw out a lot of preconceived notions about the Batman world, forget established character traits. Nolan bases his stories of Batman's history, but he also is creating his own Gotham and the type of city and criminals in it and after establishing that style in Begins, Joker has to conform to it and he and Ledger saw eye to eye on what a Nolan world Joker would be like and delivered. Within the context of Nolan's story, this Joker is perfect.
 
Reading you loud n clear - I had alot of issues with BB at first that just faded away watching it a few times. I wasn't that happy with Jack Nicholson's Joker back in '89 but soon began to love that version... so I guess its just the way my mind works. I'm sure the 'Joker lick' will settle down in my mind and become what it is: an excellent Joker portrayal.
 
I loved the tongue licking and such, I thought it was a great way of implying his insanity through phsyical gestures, every time he does it I get the sense that he's totally nuts.

He was licking his facial scars most of the time, so you know that had a major psychological effect on him.

In truth, I wish he never had his face cut. Because it gives him an excuse for his insanity.
 
In truth, I wish he never had his face cut. Because it gives him an excuse for his insanity.

Not necessarily, the enigmatic backstory leaves things open. If the reality were that his dad did do it to him as a child, it defines his psychosis, if he did it to himself, then it is a reflection of his psychosis.
 
The reason I think Heath licks his lips alot in the film is that in the script and in the movie Joker is very much described as a "mad dog", "a dog chasing cars" and at least my perception based off some short interviews I heard him talking about the character the licking of the chops represents to me the Joker's hunger for blood and destruction ... like a hungry dog. Plus the scars on his mouth give them an almost jowel like appearance like a pitbull or something. And as we know he refers to himself as a dog quite often. Heath talked about "what the look of raw meat does to your mouth" with the character of the Joker, and IDK about you but when I see that bright red meat as a man my mouth waters and you have to lick your lips. So the Joker views destruction and death as that red meat, thus his mouth is watering. Also, that scene where he's hanging out the cop car, he acts like a dog riding in a car. He even shakes his head and hair just like how dogs do when the air hits them at high speeds in a car.
 
Not necessarily, the enigmatic backstory leaves things open. If the reality were that his dad did do it to him as a child, it defines his psychosis, if he did it to himself, then it is a reflection of his psychosis.

Well really it's the act of A PHYSICAL deformity that ultimately sets the Joker off. In some forms of the comics it's his skin being bleached. In TDK's realistic take, it can be rightfully assumed that the physical disfigurment of his mouth being cut open is what ultimately sets him off. Either way it's mysterious, and allows the audience to imagine their own interpretation.
 
he wasn't actually starting crime, he wasn't killing random people for fun or money... he went for those responsible... the mob, the corrupt cops and gordon... and in essence.. batman too..

He was going to kill either Gordon or the Kid, two innocent people in some bizarre sense of revenge, that's a crime.
I just saw the transformation, out of his established character. Maybe if more s^^t happened to him, then I could except it.
And Agent, Bruce Wayne was a kid when his parent's tragedy happened to him, he was mostly unformed. Now if Batman was going to kill some innocent kid to get revenge on a criminal (no mater what Gordon did, he wasn't ever a criminal), then that would be the equivalent of what happened with Harvey Dent, and it wouldn't sit well.

MaulFan said:
Not necessarily, the enigmatic backstory leaves things open. If the reality were that his dad did do it to him as a child, it defines his psychosis, if he did it to himself, then it is a reflection of his psychosis.
I loved that aspect of Joker, not knowing his backstory. He just liked making up stories about his scars to intimidate people.

So who's the worst psychopath, The Joker or Kakihara from Ichi the Killer? :naughty
 
And Agent, Bruce Wayne was a kid when his parent's tragedy happened to him, he was mostly unformed. Now if Batman was going to kill some innocent kid to get revenge on a criminal (no mater what Gordon did, he wasn't ever a criminal), then that would be the equivalent of what happened with Harvey Dent, and it wouldn't sit well.

What I meant is that going through a trauma such as having your parents shot in front of you isn't likely to cause you someone to become Batman. So if I'm going to buy that cause and effect, I'll go along with Harvey's trauma causing his turn to Two-Face.
 
Monday Movie Buzz: Bale's Batman voice too much?
Sunday August 3 1:44 PM ET

Though "The Dark Knight" has been a bona fide cultural event, boasting rave reviews and boffo box office, it hasn't been immune to criticism. Some have quibbled with its political undercurrents, and others have criticized a muddled theme.

But here's the critique most widely held: Why does Batman talk like the offspring of Clint Eastwood and a grizzly bear?

Donning the costume for the second time, Christian Bale has delved deeper into the lower registers. As Bruce Wayne, his voice is as smooth as his finely pressed suits. But once he puts the cape on, the transformation of his vocal chords is just as dramatic as his costume change.

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Particularly when his rage boils over, Bale's Batman growls in an almost beastly fashion, reflecting how close he teeters between do-gooder and vengeance-crazed crusader.

"The Dark Knight" hauled in $43.8 million to rank as Hollywood's top movie for the third straight weekend, fending off "The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor" which opened a close second with $42.5 million. It has earned $394.9 million in just 17 days, according to studio estimates Sunday.

Though much of the voice effect is Bale's own doing, under the guidance of director Christopher Nolan and supervising sound editor Richard King, the frequency of his Batman voice was modulated to exaggerate the effect.

Critics and fans have noticed.

"His Batman rasps his lines in a voice that's deeper and hammier than ever," said NPR's David Edelstein.

The New Yorker's David Denby praised the urgency of Bale's Batman, but lamented that he "delivers his lines in a hoarse voice with an unvarying inflection."

Reviewing the film for MSNBC, Alonso Duralde wrote that Bale's Batman in "Batman Begins" "sounded absurdly deep, like a 10-year-old putting on an `adult' voice to make prank phone calls. This time, Bale affects an eerie rasp, somewhat akin to Brenda Vaccaro doing a Miles Davis impression."

Before the similes run too far afield, it's worth considering where the concept of a throaty Batman comes from.

In his portrayal on the `60s "Batman" TV series, Adam West didn't alter his voice between Bruce Wayne and Batman. Decades later when Tim Burton brought "Batman" to the big screen in a much darker incarnation, Michael Keaton's inflection was notably but not considerably different from one to the other.

But it was a lesser-known actor who, a few years after Burton's film, made perhaps the most distinct imprint on Batman's voice. Kevin Conroy, as the voice of the animated Batman in various projects from 1992's "Batman: The Animated Series" right up until this year's "Batman: Gotham Knight," brought a darker, raspier vocalization to Batman.

Conroy has inhabit the role longer than anyone else and though animated voice-over work doesn't have the same cachet as feature film acting, there are quarters where Conroy is viewed as the best Batman of them all certainly superior to Val Kilmer or George Clooney.

The animated series are notable because they drew on the DC Comics of Batman as envisioned by Frank Miller, whose work heavily informs "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight." (Bale and Nolan were unavailable to comment for this story.)

As Batman has gotten darker, his voice has gotten deeper. As some critics suggest, Bale and "The Dark Knight" may have reached a threshold, at least audibly.
 
Don't understand all the Bat-voice hate. Doesn't bother me, and after all, Bruce has to disguise his voice in some way or another.
 
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