Official "The Dark Knight" SPOILER Thread

[scubasteve]

Guys, I kid. Hence the ellipsis. Sorry...

 

[pjam]

WB will not greenlight another film without ensuring that Nolan will either be back or not. If they greenlight before securing then they risk fanboy uprising and losing leverage as Marvel Studios learned when they greenlit Iron Man 2 before securing Faverau completely and some say that it led to the deal he got.

No, and no one said that. But if Nolan doesn't commit before a certain date (say 2 years have passed and he's still futzing around playing coy) WB will have no choice but to start making contingencies. He knows that. These Actors are not getting any younger either, especially Michael Caine and the longer the wait, the greater the risk it will be to lose its cache. Replacing Principal Actors will be the beginning of the end. I think there is a certain "soft deadline" I don't know what it is, but I bet WB wants the third pic ready for Summer 011.

And if Chris does bail, Fanboys can't uprise against WB for moving forward with a third installment, but yeah, it just wouldn't be the same. But I don't think he will.

 

[Khev]

Whatever you say Khev. You're right and everyone else is wrong, including Nolan, Goyer and the entire creative team who envisioned and planned a classic three Act play from the beginning.

I'm really not sure where your attitude is coming from on this. You seem quite determined to speak as an insider on the direction of this franchise. Were you involved in the making of BB and TDK? If you weren't then welcome to the "fanboy blogger" club.

Are you under the impression that once a filmmaker or writer envisions a story that they're never inspired to revise it once it takes on new life in a finished film? All I'm saying is that if Nolan wanted to go out on a perfect note, especially since the actor who played the "Darth Vader" of this series is no longer with us, he has that option, and I'd personally prefer that he take it. Nolan obviously isn't making these with episodic cliffhanger endings that demand follow-up films. BB works as a standalone film and so does TDK. TDK even works without BB!

And for that I'm extremely glad, if somehow the third movie is a letdown I'll be quite content to own BB and TDK on Blu-Ray and that'll be it. Anything from Nolan will no doubt be a noble effort and hey, best case scenario he blows us all away *again* and somehow we get the "Return of the King" of superhero movies. I don't see it happening but if anyone can pull it off its Nolan.

If you know him personally and want to "pass on" that I think TDK is the greatest superhero film ever made and one that can't be topped (especially given the circumstances with Ledger) then by all means do so.

 

[The Mike]

I bet WB wants the third pic ready for Summer 2011.

Huh....if that is the date they envision what would be the target shooting frame? What did TDK take a year to complete? Slightly less? Which gives Nolan until when to get the preproduction, including story and casting etc finished to be shooting in 2010? I would think the soft date would have to be until June 2009 in order to match the dates envisioned.

 

[scubasteve]

Here's a "clean" Dent coin, pre Two-Face...on sale until Friday -

https://www.slicksilvercoins.com/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=1505

I want to order one, but the copper kinda comes through in that one pic, and the heads aren't supposed to be facing the same way. Should be inverted, not mirror images of each other.

Ugh, decisions...

 

[Khev]

Where the hell did this come from? According to every interview he has been hell bent against Robin or Batgirl.

Has he officially stated that? Thank God! As silly as Robin is he's certainly been a staple of the Batman mythos for many decades. Now I don't have to lose any sleep wondering if Shia Lebouf will end up jumping off Gotham rooftops and fighting crime alongside his mentor.

 

[The Mike]

Yeah he did, I believe to paraphrase his statement it went something along the lines of: "Robin would be sitting in a crib somewhere at this point and it'd be silly to have him part of this Batman franchise because it wouldn't be logical. You will not be seeing Robin in my films."

 

[Khev]

If they're smart, they'll also mull over the pros and cons of Begins and TDK and find a way to mix the best of both into the next one.

Both BB and TDK have sequences that involve Bruce/Batman outside of America. It'd be interesting if they had him take on a global threat for the third film. It'd be cool to see him crouched on top of an old church in London, Russia, or Italy.

 

[The Mike]

That's a good point. Both films take Bruce/Batman out of the country.....maybe the clue to finding the leading candidate for the third film is finding the ways that they'll pull him out of the country again...you know the Mob will continue in this one so I don't see why this trend wouldn't continue....

 

[pjam]

Huh....if that is the date they envision what would be the target shooting frame? What did TDK take a year to complete? Slightly less? Which gives Nolan until when to get the preproduction, including story and casting etc finished to be shooting in 2010? I would think the soft date would have to be until June 2009 in order to match the dates envisioned.

Ideally, I believe WB would like a 2011 Release, that doesn't mean it will be so, just laying out how they may deal with this. If Nolan is still uncommitted 2 years from now, WB may have to make other contingencies, that's all I said.

A 2011 Summer release date would probably mean this would have to get going in about a year, scriptwise. At least an approved outline. It may be too soon. Casting new Principal actors, supporting Actors and such really doesn't take very long, the trick is scheduling them and most of the Principal Actors signed for a 3 Picture deal probably have clauses which allow the Studio first option to call them in, given a proper time frame.

To get an 2011 start date, they would have to start filming in 2010 and that would be very ambitious, but again 2011 is an ideal release date WB may have set in their Summer tentpole schedule. 2012 is more likely, that's 4 years between films. I think 4 years is about as long as WB wants to wait.

But it certainly can be done for 2011 if they can get a Script ready. It's all about having a decent script done in time as most of you know...

 

[MaulFan]

Both BB and TDK have sequences that involve Bruce/Batman outside of America. It'd be interesting if they had him take on a global threat for the third film. It'd be cool to see him crouched on top of an old church in London, Russia, or Italy.

That's a good point. Both films take Bruce/Batman out of the country.....maybe the clue to finding the leading candidate for the third film is finding the ways that they'll pull him out of the country again...you know the Mob will continue in this one so I don't see why this trend wouldn't continue....

As much as it'd break Batman tradition or whatever, I would like something like this.

I find it funny how Batman and Superman are big heroes, yet their efforts focus on Gotham or Metropolis. What world is it where only one city is riddled with crime and such. That aspect of Batman is rediculous to me, he's a hero, but he's only cleaning up one city on the whole planet, whoopie-woo haha. I think taking him out of that context and making his route of attack on cleaning up criminality expand to wherever brutal crime is going on would expand the heroism of the character and if done right, create a more powerful Batman because he's looming over everywhere, you never know where he'll pop up.

 

[Riko]

As much as it'd break Batman tradition or whatever, I would like something like this.

I find it funny how Batman and Superman are big heroes, yet their efforts focus on Gotham or Metropolis. What world is it where only one city is riddled with crime and such. That aspect of Batman is rediculous to me, he's a hero, but he's only cleaning up one city on the whole planet, whoopie-woo haha. I think taking him out of that context and making his route of attack on cleaning up criminality expand to wherever brutal crime is going on would expand the heroism of the character and if done right, create a more powerful Batman because he's looming over everywhere, you never know where he'll pop up.

he has no superpowers...how can he be everywhere It is remarkable that he is already feared in one of the biggest cities in the world..

for superman however that is really rediculous...he has the abilities to go everywhere around the world and yet he stays mostly in Metropolis

ps: batman went to Hong Kong

 

[Riko]

Both BB and TDK have sequences that involve Bruce/Batman outside of America. It'd be interesting if they had him take on a global threat for the third film. It'd be cool to see him crouched on top of an old church in London, Russia, or Italy.

we have more than churches in Europe you know...

how about the Big Ben, the Eifeltower, the tower of Pisa, the Vatican, the Kremlin, ...

 

[Riko]

I also doubt that now that he has made two, he'll want someone else to finish what he started. At the worst I see him having his hands on it in some way, even if he decides not to direct it.


We'll know when he knows, there will be a soft deadline to get this going again, but WB is keeping it all nice and informal for the time being.

²

All I'm saying is that if Nolan wanted to go out on a perfect note, especially since the actor who played the "Darth Vader" of this series is no longer with us, he has that option, and I'd personally prefer that he take it. Nolan obviously isn't making these with episodic cliffhanger endings that demand follow-up films. BB works as a standalone film and so does TDK. TDK even works without BB!

And for that I'm extremely glad, if somehow the third movie is a letdown I'll be quite content to own BB and TDK on Blu-Ray and that'll be it. Anything from Nolan will no doubt be a noble effort and hey, best case scenario he blows us all away *again* and somehow we get the "Return of the King" of superhero movies. I don't see it happening but if anyone can pull it off its Nolan.

If you know him personally and want to "pass on" that I think TDK is the greatest superhero film ever made and one that can't be topped (especially given the circumstances with Ledger) then by all means do so.

couldn't agree more, but it would be a stupid move from warner WB the fans if they would let the third movie into the hands of someone else.
Like said, these are Nolan's films, he started it, he should be ending them if they want to keep the same quality!...

but when fillms start to make a lot of money and succes, studios are not interested in the wishes of the fans...the quality is less important.

There are some certainties:
principal actors who have a 3-movie contract
nolan who hasn't stated anything about a third movie

do not forget nolan never plans ahead, especially in sequels, he didn't even plan to make TDK afther Begins...

but when you view it from the studio's stand of view, a third movie is a MUST! TDK is too succesfull to end, the franchise has become a money maker again, and TDK is even going for one of the most profatable movies in all time at the box office, look at it now, it has already number 2 on the domestic list and is still going...and worldwide release has just begun....so where will that end up?

the major question for us, the fans, is about Nolan. A third movie will come, but WHO will direct......
1) We all hope nolan
2) studio don't care in the end, they just want another bat-film
3) will nolan leave his franchise in the hands of another director? I think not in the end, I think he wants to finish it and will not have his franchise being sunk into oblivia like what happend with the Burton series when it was hand over to Schumacher...that was the beginning of the end...

 

[Riko]

Absolutely agree with this 100%.

Act 1 was about Bruce having an idea, embracing it, and embarking on it.

Act 2 was about Bruce coming to realizations about the burden he's taken on and having doubts about whether he really wants to do it or not. Only at the very last moment does he start to realize a true purpose for Batman and what that persona can be for Gotham and how it can fix things.

Act 3 will be about Batman truly becoming Batman. The first 2 acts were about discovering himself and his purpose and everything, the 3rd act needs to exist to show Batman as he is meant to be. If written correctly, Batman should feel fairly different in Act 3 because he's fully formed; TDK closes with the true Nolan Batman's birth in essence, he's not a hero, he's a silent guardian. It is necessary for Nolan's story to be complete, to see that arc. I love the close of TDK because it opens up Act 3, not having the story brought to conclusion would be very upsetting for m.

TDK is a great film, as is Begins, 2 of my most favorite movies out there, but neither is "perfect" to me, they each have flaws, but Begins' flaws are the strengths of TDK and vice versa. If executed properly, Act 3 will merge those 2 films strengths into a grand finale.

As for the idea of using Joker in the second Act being a waste or whatever, I disagree. Joker is the ultimate villain and perfect for Act 2. What better test of Bruce's committment to being Batman than to pit him against a heavy hitter like Joker. I think Act 3 will provide an equally strong, if not stronger, threat as the Joker, but because Batman has risen above the Joker, he'll have grown and have the resources to rise again. And as great as Heath's Joker is, no actor or actress has ever given a performance that couldn't be rivaled by another. Not saying the same character, but another performance could be just as awe-inspiring as Ledger's Joker was, and if they choose the right storyline for Act 3, we could even get something better.

ow and can someone properly explain the difference between a Trilogy and a story told in 3 acts?...

 

[Agent0028]

Read that post again. I was not referring to Nolan's committment to a third installment. I was referring to a "fanboy" proclaiming the Franchise and Batman's Character Arc as "Complete" when Nolan and Co clearly didn't intend it, plan it or write it to be -- which flies in the face of what he said as far as the Creators and Studio are concerned. And it isn't completed ... yet.

Did you see a Batcave or newly rebuilt Wayne Manor?

No one knows if Chris will do a 3rd Film yet as everyone has noted. We all hope he does and think he will, but there was always a vision and hope for three films, that's why WB locked in the Principal Actors to do three films.


Got it?

No, because it makes no sense to me to say that "Nolan and Co clearly didn't intend it, plan it, or write it to be" while also saying at the same time that Nolan may not do a third one. Why would they plan to do a story line that follows three movies and maybe not make the third but let someone else do it? And you don't need to be so condescending.

 

[pjam]

No, because it makes no sense to me to say that "Nolan and Co clearly didn't intend it, plan it, or write it to be" while also saying at the same time that Nolan may not do a third one. Why would they plan to do a story line that follows three movies and maybe not make the third but let someone else do it? And you don't need to be so condescending.

What are you talking about, Dude? You misread and misconstrued my quote and commented so I responded, that's all. A simple clarification.

TDK was always planned and hoped to be part 2 of a Trilogy. Just as ESB was Part 2 of a SW Trilogy. TDK = ESB.

WB will make a third Movie. The theme will be "Redemption". That has already been established by Nolan and Co. and the Studio. Whether Nolan writes it and/or Directs it or not. TDK sets up Part 3 of the Trilogy.

Is there a Story yet? We don't know, probably not. But BB and TDK were written to set up a Part 3, that is very clear and that was my point.

Someone will write it, someone will Direct it and we all hope and think it will be Chris, because if he doesn't many of us will be disappointed. But Goyer or someone else may end up writing it if Chris chooses not to (and they may use his notes, outlines, whatever literary materials were in place.) The Studio owns all that material... but it's very likely no-one knows what direction the Story will take, but it will certainly follow an Act 3 Storyline Pattern.

So anyone saying the franchise is Completed is simply incorrect. There is a third progression to the Character and Story that will complete the Trilogy.

There is a chance it could fall apart if too much time passes, but I doubt the Studio or Chris will let that happen, given its success. IMO WB will give Chris plenty of time to decide, I'd guess 1-2 years but not much more. Chris knows this, he's just not ready to deal with it yet. He needs a break..

But WB will make a third Movie. And we all hope Chris completes what he started.

 

[scubasteve]

Let's not get our hopes up, just because a couple fanboys say that there WILL be a third film and its theme is REDEMPTION.

Find me official word, and we'll talk.

 

[Agent0028]

Okay, if I misunderstood your point then I apologize. The way I read the comments there seems to be no actual official confirmation of this being part 2 of 3 (other than Mike pointing out Goyer had a part three written, which was apprently incorporated in to TDK), so without that I don't think it is fair to criticize those that feel the story is complete. But as I say, if I'm missing the point that you are making then I apologize.

 

[Khev]

I find it funny how Batman and Superman are big heroes, yet their efforts focus on Gotham or Metropolis. What world is it where only one city is riddled with crime and such.

For Superman I definitely agree in a general sense, though the first Superman film did a nice job of having him race across the country to stop threats on either coast. Then of course there was him using the earth itself to turn back time.

But WB will make a third Movie.

You keep saying this as if *anyone* is disputing it. Of course WB will make a third movie. And probably a fourth, fifth, and so on until they stop turning a profit. And we know that you believe that the events in TDK don't tell a complete story and that you claim to speak for everyone who actually made the films. Trust us, pjam, we know.