P.O.S. Re-Caster *Please Read*

[King Darkness]

No I didn't mean calling said recaster out by name, which I think would actually be a good idea so people would be fully aware of them and would know not to have any dealings with them.

What I meant was more a generalized blanket statement says it was hypocritical for customizers in general to point a finger at recasters in general.

 

[Star Puffs]

Because Devil666 misses me...

I admitted as much earlier, that really I don't have any right to complain. I posted this while I was peeved and wasn't thinking about the obvious hypocrisy entailed. But not everyone agrees. Thanks for the suggestions. I think the situ's been handled.

But why are you a hypocrite? Did you complain about the recaster using a public figure's likeness without explicit permission (which may or may not be a copyright/licensing violation)? That would be hypocrisy.

In contrast you were/are upset because they took a work of art reflecting considerable skill and time, and copied it directly with a simple facsimile process.

There are two separate ethical issues here. Even the legal dimensions differ as one involves reproduction of a natural likeness versus reproduction of an artificial physical object.

 

[Shai]

You are all hypocrite and my _____ is gigantic.Merci

 

[Astro_zombie]

I boycott all re casters mainly becuase they put some of my favorite model kit companies out of business (Horizon and Screamin to name a few).

I feel like all the people that say "tough ____ deal with it" on here have never created anything from scratch. They probably just dish out cash to have someone else do the work or just collect licensed products. While its true these figures are unlicensed, its still something someone spent a great deal of time and effort to make.

Until you yourself have sculpted or built from scratch and then had that sold without your consent, you wont understand the feeling

 

[Agent47]

Yeah, but what people are saying is that I'm complaining about something that I myself stole, which is sort of true and hypocritical, and I concede that. But I do agree that there is a certain amount of art in it, even it's bad kitschy art, it's still art, and a mountain of time spent producing it. If you appreciate the final product then you have to appreciate the execution, which means you have to appreciate the art and you have to appreciate when THAT interpretation is stolen.

I have learned also that this stuff happens quite often and that some people on the bay are casting heads and then selling full figures or painted heads. Maybe I should revamp this thread into a recasters reporting thread. Would that be good? Bad? Counterproductive? Unnecessary?

 

[Agent47]

You are all hypocrite and my _____ is gigantic.Merci

My message is not too short

 

[Devil_666]

Because Devil666 misses me...

using a public figure's likeness without explicit permission (which may or may not be a copyright/licensing violation)?

Second time you've said this, there is no "may or may not be". It IS a violation.

It's called the "Right of Publicity" which is the right of an individual to control the commercial use of his or her name, image, likeness or other unequivocal aspects of one's identity and "The Celebrities Rights Act" which extends the personality rights (i.e. Right of Publicity) for a celebrity to 70 years after his or her death.

All that simply means, just because someone is in a movie, on tv or in the public spotlight that doesn't mean their likeness, image, name, etc. are suddenly up for grabs and anyone is free to profit off it.

Doesn't work like that.

And those two laws have nothing to do with Copyrights and Trademarks which are a separate form of protection to prevent people from profiting off of other people's work, character likenesses, etc.

Legit companies that produce collectibles (like on this board) have to pay $$$ to acquire the rights and licenses to make that stuff. And sometimes, when they can't acquire the necessary permission (actor won't grant permission, too expensive to acquire, etc.) those items don't get made.

You honestly think these legit companies would go through all that trouble if it were legal to just make whatever products they wanted based on whoever/whatever like a forum customizer and then make 100% profit off it (like a forum customizer)?

And if you're interested I can delve deeper into the whole recast hypocrisy I mentioned earlier. Because it really is hilarious. Since most people who condemn recasters usually turn a blind eye to customizers who recast.

Until you yourself have sculpted or built from scratch and then had that sold without your consent, you wont understand the feeling

You know who else has that feeling? The people who thought up/designed/created/sculpted/built from scratch/copyrighted/trademarked ALL the characters customizers duplicate and then make a profit off of. But screw them right?

 

[EVILFACE]

You are all hypocrite and my _____ is gigantic.Merci

* muffins

 

[toyadventurer]

Legit companies that produce collectibles (like on this board) have to pay $$$ to acquire the rights and licenses to make that stuff. And sometimes, when they can't acquire the necessary permission (actor won't grant permission, too expensive to acquire, etc.) those items don't get made.

You honestly think these legit companies would go through all that trouble if it were legal to just make whatever products they wanted based on whoever/whatever like a forum customizer and then make 100% profit off it (like a forum customizer)?

And if you're interested I can delve deeper into the whole recast hypocrisy I mentioned earlier. Because it really is hilarious. Since most people who condemn recasters usually turn a blind eye to customizers who recast.

Though you are correct about the law, comparing legit companies making several hundred figures to some customizer making twenty heads just isn't the same. No one is going to go after the customizer for making a few hundred bucks of a toy forum. Putting the so called hypocrisy aside, stealing someone else's WORK and recasting it is by far the greater of the two evils.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Though you are correct about the law, comparing legit companies making several hundred figures to some customizer making twenty heads just isn't the same. No one is going to go after the customizer for making a few hundred bucks of a toy forum. Putting the so called hypocrisy aside, stealing someone else's WORK and recasting it is by far the greater of the two evils.

yeah they would

 

[Devil_666]

No one is going to go after the customizer for making a few hundred bucks off a toy forum.

And no one is going to go after the recaster for making a few hundred bucks off of a customized piece on a toy forum either.

 

[Star Puffs]

yeah they would

[Citation needed.]

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

[Citation needed.]

statue forum got a cease & disist order from the big 2 a couple years ago

 

[EVILFACE]

I think Sideshow did something similar to here a while back. . .

 

[eighthsamurai]

i've thought about this issue in another context before. when i used to VJ in clubs, i used to use a ton of clips from movies, music videos and adverts as well as original stuff. occassionally, i'd be put with this other guy who would record all my edits, and it used to piss me off like crazy knowing he would just go and use the clips i'd found, clipped, rendered, edited and remixed without any credit to me, or effort on his part. although i hadn't created the original material my clips were made from, i had put effort into my mods and i hated this guy stealing that effort.

BUT... then i started getting paid for some of the larger gigs, and that's when i couldn't say ____ about this guy taking my stuff. because i was making money from stealing stuff myself, personally i felt i didn't have a leg to stand on when it came to feeling angry about someone stealing my clips. we were both doing something wrong by MAKING MONEY from it. so i sucked it up and accepted i was as bad as he was.

so IMHO, you can only use the "i'm creating new art" argument if you're not making a profit from it. as soon as you accept money for your work, you're entering bootleg/hypocrisy territory. i concede that while my remixes and clips took a long time, compared to the originals it was an infinitesimally small effort, whereas customizers are spending a lot more time and effort. but i think the principle is the same.


long post so here's the abridged version for King:
recasting bad, but customizing bad also when hulk make money

 

[toyadventurer]

statue forum got a cease & disist order from the big 2 a couple years ago

We weren't talking statues. Any other ones?

 

[karamazov80]

Warner Brothers supposedly made Dark Artist pull a one-of-a-kind Mr. Freeze custom off of eBay one time.

 

[Agent47]

Warner Brothers supposedly made Dark Artist pull a one-of-a-kind Mr. Freeze custom off of eBay one time.

Yeah, I remember that. Always struck me as odd considering the plethora of stuff like it on the bay. Maybe it wasn't WB. I do know a sculptor who got a cease and desist order for making statues, but that wasn't here on the boards. I think it was just on the bay.

 

[Agent47]

It's called the "Right of Publicity" which is the right of an individual to control the commercial use of his or her name, image, likeness or other unequivocal aspects of one's identity and "The Celebrities Rights Act" which extends the personality rights (i.e. Right of Publicity) for a celebrity to 70 years after his or her death.

Interesting. Good to know.

 

[Agent47]

I will also say that I have bought recasts of licensed figures and made recasts myself. But the ones I bought had been significantly modified somehow, or were impossible to obtain. And the ones I had recast I never sold but did so because I wanted to alter the cast and preserve the original. I may have also given one to a buddy here or there. But I NEVER made or bought a recast (as far as I know) of a head that someone made to sell here on the boards.