P.O.S. Re-Caster *Please Read*

[Devil_666]

Figure Master Les recast the Hot Toys Terminator Kyle Reese sculpt and modified the hair to make the sculpt resemble Hicks from Aliens. He did the same thing with the DCD Joker from TDK. He sold BOTH to a crap load of people on here and to date those heads are never referenced when people complain about recasters.

And that's just one example of the hypocrisy I was talking about.

A lot of HT Predator Bio's were recast and sold on here too. Minor mods to existing sculpts (or in some cases just straight recasts) and then sold for a profit that the original sculptor (who did the majority of the "work" everyone seems so focused on) never earned a dime from.

People complain that recasters take shortcuts with their stuff i.e. not sculpting themselves.

But customizers take shortcuts too i.e. not going through the same steps that legit companies have to go through in order to produce authorized and licensed merchandise.

The former is frowned upon, yet the latter is never mentioned. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[King Darkness]

long post so here's the abridged version for King:
recasting bad, but customizing bad also when hulk make money

Its about damnt time someone started making King friendly posts!

 

[yruh8n]

The amount of profit people are making from customizing figures is minimal at best. It cost movie studios more money to chase down the artist then they ever lost or could hope to recover. This was proven by the case of DC coming down on Johnny's Resin. This was a guy selling unlicensed kits based on the Adam West Batman tv show. The case made a lot of newspapers. Eventually DC dropped the charges. They probably figured they would never recover what they thought they lost. It's like cops aren't trying to bust every person out there who smokes weed on occasion. There aren't enough resources and there are much bigger problems to deal with. Not sure why people who are not supportive of customizers efforts would even visit this part of the board? It's like condemning pornography and then spending all your free time looking at it.

 

[eighthsamurai]

Not sure why people who are not supportive of customizers efforts would even visit this part of the board? It's like condemning pornography and then spending all your free time looking at it.

Think it's already been said a few times, but the issue isn't that people are against customizers, it's when customizers complain about recasters. No-one is condemning anything, just pointing out the irony of the situation.

So your analogy doesn't really hold ground. Most people in this thread aren't "condemning pornography and then spending all your free time looking at it." They're pointing out, if you will, how crazy it is when pornstars go on TV and tell people that sex with strangers is wrong.

 

[yruh8n]

Figure Master Les recast the Hot Toys Terminator Kyle Reese sculpt and modified the hair to make the sculpt resemble Hicks from Aliens. He did the same thing with the DCD Joker from TDK. He sold BOTH to a crap load of people on here and to date those heads are never referenced when people complain about recasters.

And that's just one example of the hypocrisy I was talking about.

A lot of HT Predator Bio's were recast and sold on here too. Minor mods to existing sculpts (or in some cases just straight recasts) and then sold for a profit that the original sculptor (who did the majority of the "work" everyone seems so focused on) never earned a dime from.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

While I respectfully disagree with most of your opinions on this topic, I can get behind this. I think there is a double standard that involves who is doing the customizing and of what. I have bought custom pieces and will continue to support artist who from scratch create brilliant works of art. If someone wants to modify a sculpt for their own use I think that's great. If it isn't 100% their work they really shouldn't be molding it and selling castings, imo. It would be interesting to see what would happen if one of the Sideshow sculptors who is involved in unlicensed projects complained about being recast?

 

[King Darkness]

Think it's already been said a few times, but the issue isn't that people are against customizers, it's when customizers complain about recasters. No-one is condemning anything, just pointing out the irony of the situation.

I 100% support customizers! Some of my very best figures in my collection are custom pieces.

 

[yruh8n]

Think it's already been said a few times, but the issue isn't that people are against customizers, it's when customizers complain about recasters. No-one is condemning anything, just pointing out the irony of the situation.

So your analogy doesn't really hold ground. Most people in this thread aren't "condemning pornography and then spending all your free time looking at it." They're pointing out, if you will, how crazy it is when pornstars go on TV and tell people that sex with strangers is wrong.

I get that. I guess I just don't understand the sympathy for the big cats that are being violated by people selling a few custom figures? It should be obvious that if the studios really wanted it stopped it would be a small matter to quickly wipe it out. Yet they continue to let it go. Customizing is a fan driven hobby. Anyone who thinks artist are getting rich selling custom heads or figures ought to talk to a few of the them who are dong it. After cost of materials they aren't make much. Studios realize that biting the hand that feeds them isn't always in their best interest. Supportive fans can make a huge difference in a properties success or failure. How many billions of dollars has been generated off of the Star Trek francise? That is a property that was all but dead in the late sixties, but the fans turned it around.

 

[yruh8n]

I 100% support customizers! Some of my very best figures in my collection are custom pieces.

But you don't have enough respect for the artist who created them to be supportive? Recasting discourages a lot of artist from getting involved in customs. I think we can all agree that legally profitting from unlicensed creations is as wrong as recasting. On a more personal level it seems most understand that there is very little profit in selling custom items and is anyone REALLY being hurt financially by that? Recasters hurt the artist you support, but that doen't matter?

 

[King Darkness]

I get that. I guess I just don't understand the sympathy for the big cats that are being violated by people selling a few custom figures? It should be obvious that if the studios really wanted it stopped it would be a small matter to quickly wipe it out. Yet they continue to let it go. Customizing is a fan driven hobby. Anyone who thinks artist are getting rich selling custom heads or figures ought to talk to a few of the them who are dong it. After cost of materials they aren't make much. Studios realize that biting the hand that feeds them isn't always in their best interest. Supportive fans can make a huge difference in a properties success or failure. How many billions of dollars has been generated off of the Star Trek francise? That is a property that was all but dead in the late sixties, but the fans turned it around.

But you don't have enough respect for the
artist who created them to be supportive? Recasting discourages a lot of artist from getting involved in customs. I think we can all agree that legally profitting from unlicensed creations is as wrong as recasting. On a more personal level it seems most understand that there is very little profit in selling custom items and is anyone REALLY being hurt financially by that? Recasters hurt the artist you support, but that doen't matter?

You've completely missed.....ugh....never mind.....

 

[Astro_zombie]

I think there should be a permanent thread of known recasters. They did this over at GBfans and it works well. That way the people who don't want to support them wont accidentally buy from them and the people who don't care can just bypass it all together.

I support the big wig companies like hot toys but, there's still plenty of movies, games, and TV shows I love that don't or will never have figures made. That's why I support the sculptors and other artist on this site too.

 

[JonS]

"Making and selling unlicensed characters is illegal, therefore recasting those custom sculpts is just as bad," is a flawed argument. It's like saying jaywalking is illegal so Vehicular homicide is just as bad as jaywalking.

Lets examine the repercussions of the two. The first, a talented sculptor makes a sculpt of let's say Jim Carey. He spends a week or two agonizing over the likeness and expression (you can figure out that if he was being paid an hourly rate to do so it would add up quickly). He makes a mold of it and starts selling copies. Sells them at 40 bucks a piece. The studio that owns the rights to the ace Ventura character is potentially getting robbed of something like 1,000 dollars! That will surely put a dent in the profits of a major movie studio. It's small potatoes and would cost them more than that in lawyers fees to simply issue a cease and desist order.

Now the re-casters: A guy buys one of those 40 dollar heads and some mold rubber and without the investment of skill or labor he starts selling copies for 25 bucks on ebay. Who looses out? The sculptor that put a few weeks of his time and talent into the original is completely undercut. The re-caster does not care about any of this, they just see an opportunity for profit with little personal investment of skill or time and jump on it.

A community that supports private selling of a few head-sculpts to make customs that doesn't find anything wrong with recasting those head-sculpts will find that eventually the really talented folks will not continue producing those sculptures.

 

[FQRizzo]

"Making and selling unlicensed characters is illegal, therefore recasting those custom sculpts is just as bad," is a flawed argument. It's like saying jaywalking is illegal so Vehicular homicide is just as bad as jaywalking.

How is this logic?

Customizers and recasters are both making money off of licences they didn't pay for. They are both committing copyright violations. To say that the difference between customizers and recasters is the same as someone who doesn't use a crosswalk and someone who kills someone else with their car is ludicrous.

Customizers are just going to have to accept that their work is susceptible to recasting when they start out on a project. There is nothing legally they can do about it.

 

[Jason13]

this is a double edged sword .I could see a artist being pissed about his work being recast.his time and effort for someone to take the easy way and make money off their work ,But Like what has been stated, what can they do ???
to have a limited Number of sculpts out there is the Cool factor for me.

I am waiting on Beto Jason Part 8 only 10 of these are been made and that would be my point to my friends "there are only 10 of these in the world!" and then somebody that got one recast it and everybody get to have one ,Not cool in my book. Karma has a way of biting you in the ass .I think it is disrespectful to the artist .I could not bring myself to do it. but some just see the dollar signs.
Plus if a large number of sculpts show up then we in our little corner of collectors are on the radar and then companies that do own the rights might start to watch us closer,then It is a losing situation for us all.because every time a head sculpt or complete figure comes up they would hound in on the artist and us collectors .

I put nothing pass big companies they are greedy bastards.I think maybe a list of People who recast is a good idea ,so us that do support the artist and their time and talent can steer clear of them ,so the artist will still be willing to create pieces for us .I know I can't do it

 

[JonS]

How is this logic?

Customizers and recasters are both making money off of licenses they didn't pay for. They are both committing copyright violations. To say that the difference between customizers and recasters is the same as someone who doesn't use a crosswalk and someone who kills someone else with their car is ludicrous.

I guess it boils down to whether or not you support custom sculptors making and selling a few sculptures of unlicensed un-produced characters. If you do then you should be able to see the logic in the statement. Even if you don't, you should be able to see that, like crimes, one is more dastardly than the other.

And I agree with you that there is nothing legally they can do about it, that's why he's comming to the forum to try to gain our support to boycott re-casters.

 

[siquisiri]

Customizers are just going to have to accept that their work is susceptible to recasting when they start out on a project. There is nothing legally they can do about it.

VERY true.

 

[Devil_666]

Lets examine the repercussions of the two.

Yeah.. let's do that. But let's do it realistically. Ok?

The first, a talented sculptor makes a sculpt of let's say Jim Carey. [From Ace Ventura]

Let's also say this is without first obtaining permission from Jim Carrey to reproduce his likeness and permission from the studio that owns the rights to Ace Ventura to reproduce that characters likeness.

He spends a week or two agonizing over the likeness and expression

"Agonizing"!?

Manual labor is "Agonizing". Making sculptures in your spare time is anything but.

you can figure out that if he was being paid an hourly rate to do so it would add up quickly.

But you can also figure out that people don't get paid an hourly wage for stuff they do on their own spare time. When I put together my brother's furniture from IKEA back in the day you can imagine if I was being paid an hourly rate to do so it would've added up quickly too. Or when people clean their houses, if they were being paid an hourly rate to do so it would add up quickly as well. In other words, it's irrelevant

He makes a mold of it and starts selling copies.

Illegally.

Sells them at 40 bucks a piece.

Illegally.

The studio that owns the rights to the ace Ventura character is potentially getting robbed of something like 1,000 dollars! That will surely put a dent in the profits of a major movie studio.

You do realize this is the same asinine argument shoplifters use to justify stealing from big stores, right?

Now the re-casters: A guy buys one of those 40 dollar heads and some mold rubber and without the investment of skill or labor he starts selling copies for 25 bucks on ebay.

So the recaster takes a shortcut i.e. they find a way to to profit from something illegally without taking the proper steps to legally do it. Guess who else takes a shortcut and finds a way to to profit from something illegally without taking the proper steps to legally do it? Yeah, customizers.

Who looses out?

Who loses out!? The same people in both of your examples:

Jim Carrey

Because he's not getting paid a single cent while two different people (customizer AND recaster) illegally make money off his likeness.

The studio that owns the rights to the Ace Ventura character

Because they're not getting paid a single cent while two different people (customizer AND recaster) illegally make money off the character they own.

The sculptor that put a few weeks of his time and talent into the original is completely undercut. The re-caster does not care about any of this, they just see an opportunity for profit with little personal investment of skill or time and jump on it.

The creators of Ace Ventura, the film makers and Jim Carrey that put more than a few weeks of their time and talent into the creation of a character are completely undercut. The customizer does not care about any of this, they just see an opportunity for profit with little personal investment of money or time to properly go about obtaining a license and the rights to produce a legit item and jump on it.

A community that supports private selling of a few head-sculpts to make customs that doesn't find anything wrong with recasting those head-sculpts will find that eventually the really talented folks will not continue producing those sculptures.

This community (myself included) whole heartedly supports independent customizers and the stuff they produce. There isn't a single person in this thread saying customizers should stop making and selling stuff.

What's being said is simple: If you're hustling then don't complain when you get hustled yourself. Period.

 

[EVILFACE]

That was a awesome Lulz.

 

[King Darkness]

That was a awesome Lulz.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

We weren't talking statues. Any other ones?

Same thing....it's all still unlicensed

 

[JonS]

Judging by your sarcastic tone, you just like arguing on the internet for the fun of it, but I'll respond. You're debating the legality of it. It's obvious it's illegal! Moving forward, if you say that, "This community (myself included) whole heartedly supports independent customizers and the stuff they produce. There isn't a single person in this thread saying customizers should stop making and selling stuff." and yet don't think there is a single thing wrong with someone recasting (becasue of the reasons you keep restating), you are contradicting yourself.