P.O.S. Re-Caster *Please Read*

[eighthsamurai]

i have never seen so many people debate something for so long without actually reading and understanding what the other side is saying.

NO ONE IS SAYING THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH RECASTING.
NO ONE IS SAYING CUSTOMIZERS ARE A-HOLES.

what's being said is if you're a customizer, don't complain if someone copies your work. you're making money off someone else illegally. someone is doing it to you, using the same subject matter. we support your activites, but don't support your whining about getting ripped off. get over it. you're doing it to someone else.

in king's english:
"if you shaft someone without a reacharound, don't expect the guy shafting you to give you one either."

 

[King Darkness]

Custom figures are awesome

 

[King Darkness]

i have never seen so many people debate something for so long without actually reading and understanding what the other side is saying.

Its quite funny isnt it

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

Any customizer should just expect they're stuff to get recast going in. Right or wrong, it's just the nature of the beast. Appealing to the better nature of collectors not to buy cheap and easy recasts is like trying to convince people to stop pirating music and movies. They know it's wrong, but they don't care because it's easy to do and to get away with, and by and large, most people don't really care that they're doing it, so they're going to do it.

 

[Devil_666]

You're debating the legality of it.

No. I'm debating the Hypocrisy of it all.

you are contradicting yourself

No. I'm pointing out the Hypocrisy of it all.

 

[eighthsamurai]

Its quite funny isnt it

it's funny and retarded!

by the way, is that a sergeant slaughter custom?? that's awesome!! i had to do a double take as i was scrolling through. there are 4 wrestlers i'm going to definitely do customs of one day. maybe when i can sculpt coz that'll be the hardest part. of course if they get recast, i'll be sure to kit up and go cobretti on those a-holes.

 

[King Darkness]

it's funny and retarded!

by the way, is that a sergeant slaughter custom?? that's awesome!! i had to do a double take as i was scrolling through. there are 4 wrestlers i'm going to definitely do customs of one day. maybe when i can sculpt coz that'll be the hardest part.

I tried to say what you said, but the other side wouldnt listen

Anyway.....

Yeah, Skiman made an unlicensed Sgt head. He is an evil customizer!

Head looks great though

 

[Devil_666]

I'd say we should burn Skiman at the stake but he's too Hulkish to be bound to some puny sticks with all the muscles he has. So that's a no go.

 

[toyadventurer]

Same thing....it's all still unlicensed

It is when you quote my post out of context.

 

[Star Puffs]

I think we can all agree that legally profitting from unlicensed creations is as wrong as recasting.

No, I cannot agree to that at all.

A recaster not only is reproducing something without licence, but are stealing the artistic efforts of someone on top of that. Even if you think the original sculpt is "wrong", the recaster is committing a second violation and your equivalency is false.

And I further reject that reproducing a natural phenomenon like a public figure's likeness without permission is inherently unethical. You are allowed to take photos of celebrity and sell it but if you spend hours sculpting their appearance it is a 'crime'?

That is precisely the reason the law does not equate to morality because wealth and power translate routinely to laws that are unreasonable. Unless a celebrity can show how a work of art affects their control of their image in a material fashion, then they have no reason to be upset or feel violated.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

It is when you quote my post out of context.

yeah...they're still both unlicensed

 

[eighthsamurai]

I'd say we should burn Skiman at the stake but he's too Hulkish to be bound to some puny sticks with all the muscles he has. So that's a no go.

send him a link to this thread. when he falls asleep reading it, that's when we burn the customizing scum!!!! of course, it could go south and he might get superhulked up coz everyone is so obviously equating customizers to the minions of satan.

 

[Devil_666]

Even if you think the original sculpt is "wrong", the recaster is committing a second violation and your equivalency is false.

They're both wrong. So fundamentally they're both the same. Nitpicking to make one seem less wrong just proves bias.

And I further reject that reproducing a natural phenomenon like a public figure's likeness without permission is inherently unethical.

You can draw/paint/sculpt anything you want for your own personal use and enjoyment. No law against that and there's nothing immoral or unethical about that either.

But when you start making money off it then it becomes illegal, immoral and unethical. Pretty simple concept.

You are allowed to take photos of celebrity and sell it but if you spend hours sculpting their appearance it is a 'crime'?

Um.. no. If you take a photo of a celebrity, make copies and start selling it for a profit on like EBay that's just as illegal. And people have been stopped from doing that/sued for doing that before.

Unless a celebrity can show how a work of art affects their control of their image in a material fashion, then they have no reason to be upset or feel violated.

That "work of art" affects their control of their image in a material fashion when something WITH their likeness is being sold for a profit without their consent and without them receiving a single cent.

People in this hobby purchase items based on who/what the product is based on and what the final product looks like. Not based on who made the product in question i.e. It doesn't matter who makes a head sculpt or figure. It's irrelevant.

Name a single customizer on this board or any other that makes more money selling 100% original head sculpts and/or figures based on concepts and ideas they came up with themselves as opposed to the money they make selling head sculpts and/or figures based on existing properties, licenses & likenesses.

You can't. Because the best selling stuff from customizers is always based on existing properties, licenses & likenesses or derived from existing properties, licenses & likenesses.

So unless a customizer goes through the same process as a mainstream company to acquire a license and rights to produce and sell something, then they have no reason to be upset or feel violated if their stuff gets recasted.

 

[yruh8n]

Yeah.. let's do that. But let's do it realistically. Ok?



Let's also say this is without first obtaining permission from Jim Carrey to reproduce his likeness and permission from the studio that owns the rights to Ace Ventura to reproduce that characters likeness.



"Agonizing"!?

Manual labor is "Agonizing". Making sculptures in your spare time is anything but.



But you can also figure out that people don't get paid an hourly wage for stuff they do on their own spare time. When I put together my brother's furniture from IKEA back in the day you can imagine if I was being paid an hourly rate to do so it would've added up quickly too. Or when people clean their houses, if they were being paid an hourly rate to do so it would add up quickly as well. In other words, it's irrelevant



Illegally.



Illegally.



You do realize this is the same asinine argument shoplifters use to justify stealing from big stores, right?





So the recaster takes a shortcut i.e. they find a way to to profit from something illegally without taking the proper steps to legally do it. Guess who else takes a shortcut and finds a way to to profit from something illegally without taking the proper steps to legally do it? Yeah, customizers.



Who loses out!? The same people in both of your examples:

Jim Carrey

Because he's not getting paid a single cent while two different people (customizer AND recaster) illegally make money off his likeness.

The studio that owns the rights to the Ace Ventura character

Because they're not getting paid a single cent while two different people (customizer AND recaster) illegally make money off the character they own.



The creators of Ace Ventura, the film makers and Jim Carrey that put more than a few weeks of their time and talent into the creation of a character are completely undercut. The customizer does not care about any of this, they just see an opportunity for profit with little personal investment of money or time to properly go about obtaining a license and the rights to produce a legit item and jump on it.



This community (myself included) whole heartedly supports independent customizers and the stuff they produce. There isn't a single person in this thread saying customizers should stop making and selling stuff.

What's being said is simple: If you're hustling then don't complain when you get hustled yourself. Period.

Okay, so what do you think is a fair precentage to pay in royalties to the parties involved? 20%? So someone who sculpts a custom head of Ace Ventura and makes $1000 should send the producers of the film $200 to keep them from going broke? Or maybe the studio should get $100 and Jim Carrey $100?

 

[yruh8n]

You've completely missed.....ugh....never mind.....

No I didn't miss the point. You like customs. You buy customs. But,your attitude sends a big f___ you to the customizers because you could really care less if they get ripped off. My quess is you'll buy a recast if it's something you really want, weither it's still available from the original artist or not. Charles was asking those who enjoy and support customizers to avoid supporting recasters. Your stand implies that since you think it's all wrong you don't feel guilty about buying from whoever has what you want regardless of how they got it.

 

[galactiboy]

Figure Master Les recast the Hot Toys Terminator Kyle Reese sculpt and modified the hair to make the sculpt resemble Hicks from Aliens. He did the same thing with the DCD Joker from TDK. He sold BOTH to a crap load of people on here and to date those heads are never referenced when people complain about recasters.

That's a bit of a simplification; he actually did quite a bit of work to both heads... compare his Hicks and the Barbie looking head from HT. And there actually was a bit of a "recaster bad" backlash and he stopped selling the Hicks head (or maybe it was a Reese head).

However, the general opinion at the time; and still seems to be predominant is that if you modify an existing sculpt it then becomes fair game for sale. Hell, do a good upgrade and people will PM the hell out of you looking for a cast of it

"Agonizing"!?

Manual labor is "Agonizing". Making sculptures in your spare time is anything but.

Art is difficult; watch "The Agony and the Ecstasy", then come back.

Warner Brothers supposedly made Dark Artist pull a one-of-a-kind Mr. Freeze custom off of eBay one time.

Same thing happened to me; I made a (admittedly not as nice) Killer Croc figure only to have the listing pulled for copyright violation, or some such thing. Funny thing is I also sold a Joker the same week, but neglected to put "Batman" in the title and it ended w/o issue

I assume WB had people searching for listings and would then report them to eBay to be shut down.

 

[devilof76]

No I didn't miss the point. You like customs. You buy customs. But,your attitude sends a big f___ you to the customizers because you could really care less if they get ripped off.

The customizers aren't getting ripped off. It's not their property. They are stealing rights, and the money they make is made illegally.

If they want copyright protection on their work, then they need to legally obtain the right from the copyright holders of the work they are pirating. Then they can complain about recasters, and have legal recourse to stop them.

Don't complain about someone violating your property rights when you have shown no respect for someone else's. Customizers don't have a right to their work once it leaves their hands, and if they are creating bootleg works of art, it is morally right that they will enjoy zero legal protection.

And a big fat LOL for the buyers of customs offended that the rarity of their bootleg depreciates with recasts. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[galactiboy]

So who here would buy a recast head?

Lets start a poll!!!

 

[devilof76]

Bought an artist recast of his own sculpt.

Does that count?

 

[Devil_666]

That's a bit of a simplification; he actually did quite a bit of work to both heads

It's irrelevant. The base sculpt/likeness i.e. the majority of the work was done by someone else while Les recasted it (with the minimal amount of work he put in which was/is minor in comparison) and took 100% of the profits.

However, the general opinion at the time; and still seems to be predominant is that if you modify an existing sculpt it then becomes fair game for sale. Hell, do a good upgrade and people will PM the hell out of you looking for a cast of it

And it's hypocritical.

Art is difficult; watch "The Agony and the Ecstasy", then come back.

Go work a 9 to 5 doing manual labor where you bust your ass for 8 hours doing real work and then come back and tell me that sitting down and sculpting at your leisure is "Agony".

Okay, so what do you think is a fair percentage to pay in royalties to the parties involved?

It doesn't matter what I or you or anyone else for that matter thinks is a fair percentage to pay in royalties. The only people in a position to make that assessment (in your example) are the ones who own the property and Jim Carrey. That's it.

That's why there's laws and processes in place to produce and sell licensed and legitimate merchandise of other peoples trademarked/copyrighted intellectual properties/likenesses.