devilof76
Super Freak
No kidding. I always thought the violence was integral to the story. What's the point if his suffering wasn't excessive? And what's the point of making it into a movie if you aren't going to show it?
Passion of the Christ
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No kidding. I always thought the violence was integral to the story. What's the point if his suffering wasn't excessive? And what's the point of making it into a movie if you aren't going to show it?
You're absolutely right.
I thought it was an incredible movie personally. Quite a moving experience. Christian or not.
devilof76
Super Freak
And what I just said was that there are other reasons to watch besides the compulsion to 'ogle'.
As for love, I don't buy it. I'm not saying he was a masochist, but I think it's abominable to give one's life for people who have earned damnation. To claim that it was done out of love confesses a promiscuous understanding of the concept. Christian love is an inversion of what the word actually means. Love is exclusive, and selfish. A selfless, indiscriminate love is a contradiction in terms.
Maglor said:
And those are the people I was referring to when I said there were people it would harm to witness his pain, and that he wouldn't want them to see it. I would also include those who are simply too sensitive, regardless of the fact that they never knew the man.
devilof76
Super Freak
It wasn't torture porn. It was realistic. There's a difference.
I disagree, in spades.
Damn right it was.
I disagree, in spades.
Damn right it was.
devilof76, you make some good points, but I take exception to this:
In Greek, there are several different words for love. The one that applies here is Agape. It is a love out of principle. You express it because it is right, not because it feels good. Whether you personally believe it was right or "abominable" for Christ to die for sinners isn't the issue. Point is, he believed it was right.
In Greek, there are several different words for love. The one that applies here is Agape. It is a love out of principle. You express it because it is right, not because it feels good. Whether you personally believe it was right or "abominable" for Christ to die for sinners isn't the issue. Point is, he believed it was right.
Dunno, I think Saw was pretty realistic.
As someone that wanted to be able to own Andy's sculpture, I'll chime in here.
Without getting into the relgion of it all, there is a core message in the Passion that I walked away from the theater with, and it was inspiration to commit to a cause, and that inspiration is why I have the photographic book from the movie and why I'd want something like Andy's bust. If you strip away the relgious details, the bottom line is you are watching the sacrifice a man goes through for a cause he completely believed in. I feel like seeing images or statues depicting this sacrifice in it's most brutal form is a way of realizing and remembering that some other things in life are quite petty, or that you aren't giving some cause you believe all the effort you could. It's not about basking in the brutality, it's just harsh reminder of sacrifice, and I don't think people wanting to have images and 3D representations of that for the right reasons are doing any wrong.
Without getting into the relgion of it all, there is a core message in the Passion that I walked away from the theater with, and it was inspiration to commit to a cause, and that inspiration is why I have the photographic book from the movie and why I'd want something like Andy's bust. If you strip away the relgious details, the bottom line is you are watching the sacrifice a man goes through for a cause he completely believed in. I feel like seeing images or statues depicting this sacrifice in it's most brutal form is a way of realizing and remembering that some other things in life are quite petty, or that you aren't giving some cause you believe all the effort you could. It's not about basking in the brutality, it's just harsh reminder of sacrifice, and I don't think people wanting to have images and 3D representations of that for the right reasons are doing any wrong.
devilof76
Super Freak
And that's what made the spectacle as potently tragic as it was.
devilof76
Super Freak
I meant realistic in the sense of the director's motivation for including it, as well as how well it was depicted. The motive behind Saw was much closer to torture porn.
MaulFan said:
I agree.
Maulfan, as always, you make excellent points. I don't want to interfear with anyone who chooses to enjoy the film for the reasons you state.
But, at any rate, I've made my personal choice about this film. I think it disrespects Christ. I also think wearing a cross disrespects Christ. It was the implement of his torture and to use it in worship is weird to me. If my mother stepped between me and a firing gun to save my life, I would not want to wear a miniature replica of that gun around my neck. Surly I would cherish memories of my mother and be forever thankful for her sacrifice, but I would do my best to forget the details of her death.
That's enough for me in this thread. Besides I'm off to bed!
But, at any rate, I've made my personal choice about this film. I think it disrespects Christ. I also think wearing a cross disrespects Christ. It was the implement of his torture and to use it in worship is weird to me. If my mother stepped between me and a firing gun to save my life, I would not want to wear a miniature replica of that gun around my neck. Surly I would cherish memories of my mother and be forever thankful for her sacrifice, but I would do my best to forget the details of her death.
That's enough for me in this thread. Besides I'm off to bed!
Your emoticon just put a cross on it's grave. 
thenammagazine
Super Freak
devilof76
Super Freak
But isn't that crucifix the symbol of your salvation? Without it, there would be no resurrection, and no ascension. It was the object that guaranteed eternal life to the faithful.
The way I understand it, Jesus got himself nailed to that cross. Pilate, the Pharisees, and the Roman soldiers were all accessories, but his own will was the primary cause of his death. Unless you wanted to argue that the sins of man were the true cause, and his death was necessitated by God's desire to keep the door open for humanity. Then I guess the cross would represent man's sins, and literally man's persecution of God. However, that argument would only fly for a believer.
thenammagazine
Super Freak
Combining torture porn with religion seems twisted to me...
...and I love Saw!
Then you missed the whole point of it. Christians believe that Christ died so that their sins be forgiven. Hence every drop spilled was done to save them from certain damnation making every single drop important. If you don't feel the need to view it to "get it" that's fine. But don't discredit the film for showing the sacrifice. There are several who just didn't get it until seeing the movie and on that level, the film did its job.
I'd say to each their own on that. I personally think the cross is idolatry and have seen people praying to it which reaffirms my personal opinion. But that's just my opinion.
devilof76
Super Freak
I wonder how many people the movie made into believers.
thenammagazine
Super Freak
Or reaffirmed just what the man went through so that those who already believed could have their sins forgiven.
From a historical aspect, I don't see the movie being any different from a film like Amistad or Schindler's List.
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